Manker MK34 219B vs. 219C: 219B is brighter!?

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toobadorz
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Manker MK34 219B vs. 219C: 219B is brighter!?

I own both 219B and 219C versions of Manker MK34. To my understanding, the NICHIA LEDs used on these two versions are:

MK34 219C: R9050 (90+ CRI), 4000K, D240 bin (240~260 lumens with 700mA current)
MK34 219B: R9050 (90+ CRI), 5000K, D220 bin (220~240 lumens with 700mA current)

Clearly the 219C version should deliver more lumens since it’s using a more efficient emitter.

And since the form factor of these two emitters are essentially the same, I suppose the ratio of output lumens shall be pretty much the ratio of beam intensity. So I measured the lux values of the same brightness level on these two lights, for MID1, MID2, HIGH, and TURBO.

However my result is a bit hard to believe. The 219B version is consistently brighter (gives consistently about 10% larger lux values) on these levels.

Anyone has an idea about what might be wrong with my MK34? This finding concerns me a lot, making me wonder if my 219C light is working properly.

NOTE: runtime tests (the time from TURBO mode on to the light is off) on these two lights are close, 2 hrs 5 mins (219C) vs. 2 hdrs 10 mins (219B)

Edited by: toobadorz on 03/01/2017 - 14:03
hIKARInoob
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You’re measuring lux values directly aiming the light at the meter (= not the right way), or you use ceiling bounce lux? I’ve got both the M43 219B (5000K 93 CRI) and M43 219C (5000K 83 CRI), and the 219C clearly produces more lumens.

toobadorz
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I measured the lux values by directly aiming the light at my meter. The result is consistently lower (219C is 10% lower) with different distance and levels.

hIKARInoob
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toobadorz wrote:
I measured the lux values by directly aiming the light at my meter. The result is consistently lower (219C is 10% lower) with different distance and levels.

Aha! That’s not the right way. Same discussion here http://budgetlightforum.com/node/49027?page=5 starting from post #161
Although it is possible that you have derived the right conclusion that the 219B is putting out more lumens than 219C (meaning something is wrong with your light), it is tricky to use the method you described. Try a ceiling bounce test, and see what differences you get in lux values; this should be much more accurate.

Edit:

Basically, the 219B and 219C may have different domes, resulting in different optical properties so the same light output of the two types of leds will result in different lux values. This means you cannot use lux values obtained by shining the light at the meter directly to derive lumen values.

toobadorz
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Thanks for your help!

Just tried the ceiling bounce test. The measured values on HIGH are very close, only ~1% difference, and 219C version is slightly brighter.

Edit: 1% difference is a bit too small…smaller than my expectation

hIKARInoob
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toobadorz wrote:
Thanks for your help!

Just tried the ceiling bounce test. The measured values on HIGH are very close, only ~1% difference, and 219C version is slightly brighter.

Well that’s at least better. I get about 25% higher lumen values (using ceiling bounce) for my M43 219C compared to M43 219B; the difference is visually noticeable.
One of the problems with the Manker MK34 is that numerous values for turbo output are reported for the 219B variant, ranging from 3000 to 4000 lumens (instead of the claimed 6500 lumens). The highest value I have read is from Selfbuilt who measured 7500 lumens for the XP-G3 variant (claimed 8000 lumens). So there is a lot of variance for the turbo output… Hope this helps a bit. Cheers!

toobadorz
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Thanks again!

Actually I bought these two lights after knowing the fact that their TURBO output might vary a lot. 23s TURBO is not my reason of getting them, but good tint and CRI is.

Edness
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hIKARInoob wrote:
You’re measuring lux values directly aiming the light at the meter (= not the right way), or you use ceiling bounce lux? I’ve got both the M43 219B (5000K 93 CRI) and M43 219C (5000K 83 CRI), and the 219C clearly produces more lumens.

You are comparing different bins. Your M43 has D280/270 and his MK34 has D240.

The cooler tint might produce more lumens even tho they are the older 219B.

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Edness wrote:
hIKARInoob wrote:
You’re measuring lux values directly aiming the light at the meter (= not the right way), or you use ceiling bounce lux? I’ve got both the M43 219B (5000K 93 CRI) and M43 219C (5000K 83 CRI), and the 219C clearly produces more lumens.

You are comparing different bins. Your M43 has D280/270 and his MK34 has D240.

The cooler tint might produce more lumens even tho they are the older 219B.

You are absolutely correct; that was pretty sloppy from my side to state the way I did. Taking the (average) output bins from post #1, the difference is only 9% between the 219B and 219C. And toobadorz, so true too; not many lights produce a wall of gorgeous Nichia tint and CRI.

RollerBoySE
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On a related comparison:

I have two S41:s with 5000K 219B:s from the first batch made by Manker and recently bought a Manker E14 with a 4000K 219C. In ceiling bounce test with luxmeter using the same cell in both (according to Kenjii the 18350 that gives the highest output: http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/946760#comment-946760 ) they have the same output on turbo, not what I anticipated…

Any theories on why the 219C doesn’t produce more light than the 219B?

joelbnyc
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toobadorz wrote:
I own both 219B and 219C versions of Manker MK34. To my understanding, the NICHIA LEDs used on these two versions are:

MK34 219C: R9050 (90+ CRI), 4000K, D240 bin (240~260 lumens with 700mA current)
MK34 219B: R9050 (90+ CRI), 5000K, D220 bin (220~240 lumens with 700mA current)

RollerBoySE wrote:
On a related comparison: Any theories on why the 219C doesn’t produce more light than the 219B?

This is old, not sure anyone cares anymore, but…

An obvious explanation would be Manker used the 83 CRI R8000 219B and the 90 CRI R9050 219C. Both have same output.

219C: 90+ CRI NVSL219C R9050 D240 4000k CRI92

219B: 83 CRI NVSW219BT-V1 SW5055-5088/D240-260/R8000 not the R9050 219B.

Manker CS rep thought that both the 219B and 219C used in MK34 were 90+ CRI, but said the 219C had a higher CRI than the 219B. Either a) the second part of that sentence is correct and the first incorrect, or else Manker produced some runs with 83 CRI 219B’s and some with 90 CRI 219B’s, hence the conflicting reports.

RollerBoySE
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joelbnyc wrote:

This is old, not sure anyone cares anymore, but…

An obvious explanation would be Manker used the 83 CRI R8000 219B and the 90 CRI R9050 219C. Both have same output.

219C: 90+ CRI NVSL219C R9050 D240 4000k CRI92

219B: 83 CRI NVSW219BT-V1 SW5055-5088/D240-260/R8000 not the R9050 219B.

Manker CS rep thought that both the 219B and 219C used in MK34 were 90+ CRI, but said the 219C had a higher CRI than the 219B. Either a) the second part of that sentence is correct and the first incorrect, or else Manker produced some runs with 83 CRI 219B’s and some with 90 CRI 219B’s, hence the conflicting reports.

maukka measured the 219B MK34 ( http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/997550#comment-997550 ) to CRI 92.

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RollerBoySE wrote:
maukka measured the 219B MK34 ( http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/997550#comment-997550 ) to CRI 92.

I hope so. I just ordered the 219B 5000K version before suspecting maybe it was the 83 CRI emitter. Maybe they did make some runs with the 93 and some with 83? Can’t think of too many other explanations, if the 4000K R9050 219C is supposed to have more lm/watt than the 5000K R9050 219B. Although the specs list a range, maybe its a case of lottery. Some users did report having 219C’s that appeared brighter than their 219B’s for this light.

hIKARInoob
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I’ve got the 4000K 219C MK34. I also have both 219C 5000K 80+ and 90+ CRI Emisar D4 lights. I’m pretty sure you get the 90+ CRI 219B leds in your MK34, because I’ve never read about 219B 80+ CRI leds being used, either in this or other lights.
But whatever leds you get I can tell you that the MK34 is an amazing light, and the really minor difference between 80+ and 90+ CRI is the last thing on your mind when you’re using the MK34. Party

RollerBoySE
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hIKARInoob wrote:
I’ve got the 4000K 219C MK34. I also have both 219C 5000K 80+ and 90+ CRI Emisar D4 lights. I’m pretty sure you get the 90+ CRI 219B leds in your MK34, because I’ve never read about 219B 80+ CRI leds being used, either in this or other lights. But whatever leds you get I can tell you that the MK34 is an amazing light, and the really minor difference between 80+ and 90+ CRI is the last thing on your mind when you’re using the MK34. Party

I have the 5000K 219B MK34 and it’s one of my favorite lights. It’s not the brightest, but it just feels/looks right and it’s bright enough. Plus, at least mine, is definitely 90+ CRI.

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RollerBoySE wrote:
hIKARInoob wrote:
I’ve got the 4000K 219C MK34. I also have both 219C 5000K 80+ and 90+ CRI Emisar D4 lights. I’m pretty sure you get the 90+ CRI 219B leds in your MK34, because I’ve never read about 219B 80+ CRI leds being used, either in this or other lights. But whatever leds you get I can tell you that the MK34 is an amazing light, and the really minor difference between 80+ and 90+ CRI is the last thing on your mind when you’re using the MK34. Party

I have the 5000K 219B MK34 and it’s one of my favorite lights. It’s not the brightest, but it just feels/looks right and it’s bright enough. Plus, at least mine, is definitely 90+ CRI.

Just like the Zebralight S6330, I strongly believe the MK34 is a light that people will regret in the future for not having bought. One of the most recognisable lights in the flashlight world with awesome properties.

joelbnyc
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hIKARInoob wrote:
I’ve never read about 219B 80+ CRI leds being used, either in this or other lights.

I’m sure it happens. I believe they are slightly less expensive, and have higher luminous flux, and the manufacturer can still advertise “Nicha 219B High CRI.”

I do like the Manker MK34 quite a bit. Great form factor, quite ergonomic, and the output is fine for most purposes. No, it is not as bright as my X7, but easier to throw in a coat pocket and barely know it’s there. Apples to Oranges really. Maybe I will get an M43 too at some point.

Tint Shot (the differences are not quite so pronounced to the eye, but this is best I could get, manual mode with WB set to 5600K)


L to R: 219B 4500K CRI 92+ Beta QRv2; 219B 5000K CRI 83+ or 90+? Manker MK34; XHP70 5000K Olight X7 NW; XP-L HI 6000K Thrunite Ti SS;