Aliexpress - Dispute Process Warning

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ImA4Wheelr
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Aliexpress - Dispute Process Warning

Be warned.  In my recent experience, Aliexpress seems to not be concerned about false advertising and to be stacking the deck against the consumer.

Recently I purchased 5 lights from Aliexpress.  The ads boldly stated in the titles and/or pictures "Cree".  The lights I received had imitation "Cree" emitters.  I opened disputes initially asking for 50% refunds.  I could only get one picture to load into evidence.  Then it seemed to want video loaded.  I have never had luck uploading video.  So I uploaded the remaining pictures into the Messages area.  I referenced them in the dispute wording, but was ruled against because I only showed a picture of one light in the Evidence area.  I appealed the ruling and explained that their system would not let me upload the other pictures in the Evidence area, but that they were available in Messages area to to be viewed:  Here is the response to my appeal:

"I am sincerely sorry for your unsuccessful purchase experience. Regarding this dispute, we found there's no detailed evidence for the problem you mentioned when our Case Management Specialist  handled this case. Besides, there is no video from you can prove the quality problems as well. As you know, it is hard for dispute team to help our buyers if the evidence is not supported. That's why we  reminded you to provide the detailed video to verify your claim in the mail."

At no point during the dispute and appeal process was I told I must submit video.  How the heck is a video going to be an better than a picture of an emitter?  I think it is just creating hurdles that allow their vendors to continue to post false statements and rip off customers.

". . . You realize that wasn't really a loss for me in Africa — it was a gain that I didn't appreciate."

- George Foreman 2017

Edited by: ImA4Wheelr on 05/17/2017 - 10:12
MRsDNF
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Sorry to hear ImA4Wheelr. Sounds like the same type of hassle I had with Gearbest.

My current and or voltage measurements are only relevent to anything that I measure.

Budget light hobby proudly sponsored by my Mastercard and unknowingly paid for by a hard working wife. 

djozz said "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

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Jerommel
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Dang, that sucks..

But a picture is easy to manipulate (photoshop and the like) but a video is difficult to manipulate.

It is somewhat understandable too i.m.h.o. that AE stands behind the sellers in this kind of cases.
The sellers probably bought the lights described as having CREE emitters, so it’s in a way unfair to let them pay for the lies of the suppliers.

I don’t know how much your lights have cost, but 50% is a rather high aim too, since the difference in price with a genuine CREE is probably much less than 50%.

None the less, something should be done about it, because false advertising is false advertising, regardless who is really to blame.

Sorry i probably don’t say what you want to hear and i hope you can make something good of the lights.

…my cent…

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

my9221
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Seems I have to stop buying from aliexpress!

RobertB
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I won’t buy anything off Ali unless the vendor takes paypal

Barkuti
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If needed, you can crop and mix together multiple pictures. Up to 4 pics it is fairly easy, and I even do all the editing from my smartphone. Of course, you may need adequate software.To start with, most if not all of the stock camera applications are crap. As a root user, I do not hesitate doing away with useless software, to the point of not having an operative email client up and running (some apps may complain  LoL!).

Recommended: Open Camera

Fully fledged camera and video recording application whose features are, up to a certain point, dependent of the actual device capabilities. Configurable resolution, video bitrates and framerates, white balance, multiple focusing modes, exposure level adjustment, onscreen device orientation, angle/altitude level, customizable grid, crop guide, etc.

 

Some examples:

 

(off-topic)

Oh! My little honey: N64 with custom RGB DAC (viletim N64 RGB DAC 2007 pre-PCB version). I also have a full set of original Nintendo gamepads in fully operational condition (joysticks were lubed frequently).

Power supply had to be revamped from the inside due to mileage failure. 

 

Cheers Party

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mattlward
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Jerommel wrote:
Dang, that sucks..

It is somewhat understandable too i.m.h.o. that AE stands behind the sellers in this kind of cases.
The sellers probably bought the lights described as having CREE emitters, so it’s in a way unfair to let them pay for the lies of the suppliers.

…my cent…

Wow, you cut them a lot of slack… If the seller is advertising something as genuine Cree then it is up to them to be sure to supply genuine Cree. Would it be fine to pick up a truckload of C grade 18650’s and real wrappers from Samsung or Panasonic and relabel them and sell that a real, only to play dumb when peeps figure out they are fakes?

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Convoy S2+, 6*7135, XM-L2 3D, 10 degree TIR, PilotDog lighted tailcap.
Convoy S2+, H17F, XM-L2 4C, lighted tailcap
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I buy a lot on AE and had my fair share of counterfeit products. Last year I even received fake Attinys MCUs which look exactly like the real ones (the dot / imprint was missing on them) – I also didn’t receive a refund because I wasn’t able to “provide evidence” in that specific case. How would I provide evidence when the physical appearance is very similar or the same?

Henk4U2
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Jerommel wrote:
Dang, that sucks..

It is somewhat understandable too i.m.h.o. that AE stands behind the sellers in this kind of cases.
The sellers probably bought the lights described as having CREE emitters, so it’s in a way unfair to let them pay for the lies of the suppliers.

…my cent…

When you buy something, you have an agreement with the seller. You have paid, so you complied to your end of it. Now he has to give you what he promised to do: a working product that complies to the specs he showed you when you decided to buy it. The fact that he was cheated bij the supplier (was he?) is not concerning you. You did not deal with the supplier, but with the seller. AE is not standing behind the seller, but behind AE. Because at the end of the day everybody has forgotten the (real?) name of the seller, but still remembers that it was on AE.

Jerommel
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I wrote more that you quote, you only quote 0.5 cents..

But anyway, i’m not always sure where to stand on this.
Often you can expect a fake Cree in a cheap light, and that’s when i’m not even considering to open a dispute.
At other times, when the light is not that cheap, i feel i should open a dispute.

Looking for:

5” parabolic reflector (for recoil light)

RobertB
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I doubt you will get anywhere with Aliexpress. Jack Ma condones the use of counterfeit products

https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2016/06/15/jack-ma-says-fakes-better...

sb56637
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Hmm, that stinks. Thanks for the heads-up. I agree that it sounds like an “effort barrier” to filter out people that are just looking for a free lunch. It also sounds like they don’t really care about transactions as long as they aren’t blatant scams. (“The item was shipped and it powers on, what’s the problem?”)

Speaking of blatant scams, eBay sure is turning into a bit of a minefield in that regard. I’ve had a couple of bad experiences recently with non-flashlight items. Ebay will eventually cover its guarantee, but they also have an effort barrier toward making claims, and make it intentionally difficult to contact customer support about transactions that went south. For example, I have one item I ordered in the middle of May that the seller simply never shipped and has had absolutely zero communication with me. Their feedback rating is now like -1. Ebay’s answer after navigating their maze of dead-end options and eventually finding a hidden way to contact customer support: “They might have shipped it and forgotten to update the status. Please wait until its estimated delivery date in July.” Yeah, right. And interestingly, PayPal won’t handle disputes on eBay transactions; they simply refer you to eBay.

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Box
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I got a Warsun X60 off their Aliexpress store. In the pics it says it has a XHP50. When it came it was XML2 so I made a claim. Uploaded two photos then got a full refund the week later. Glad I didn’t have the same problem as you guys. Be pretty mad if I lost 45 bucks

djozz
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Aliexpress is not much different from the several individual sellers (DX, BG, GB) based in China, once you receive something that is not right (DOA, wrong item, different from specs), they give you a hard time getting what you rightfully deserve (I never filed any paypal claim). With my own experience over time and with the help from the recommend/avoid theads on BLF I have learned which sellers to avoid, and IMO the same accounts for Aliexpress: some sellers can mostly be trusted (i.e. Simon’s Convoy store, Jaxman store), the rest is in principle a gamble. That said, almost all of my many buyer experiences on AE are good, I get what I expect to get based on the description. But what I expect is not always literally what is advertised, I try to see through any false claims and judge if the price is right for what I estimate is the real product.

ImA4Wheelr
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^

Most of my AE purchases go smoothly too.  I think I probably would not have had a problem if I could have uploaded the pictures to the "Evidence" area.  I feel that explaining that I couldn't and that I had uploaded them in the messages areas should have been adequate.  So I'm warning folks to not make the same mistake I apparently made.

". . . You realize that wasn't really a loss for me in Africa — it was a gain that I didn't appreciate."

- George Foreman 2017

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I agree with djozz, this problem seems universal with chineses vendors. I think it is a mixture of intention to obfuscate the process as well as an attempt to minimize the language barrier, eg a picture is worth a thousand words. unfortunately there are times when pictures and movies are not appropriate, say when something is just missing. it is difficult to prove a negative. i find that being ultra polite using an abundance of thank you’s and pleases’s and being persistent usually prevails although sometimes it just proves easier to forget it and move on. I have a long memory for bad vendors! it is noteworthy that sometimes this total failure to communicate results in receiving free items that were really not the issue and with a value greater than the original item(s). trying to resolve these issues are as fruitless as trying to resolve the original.

Did i forget to mention that having no expectation of timely delivery or resolution is a plus. I have an ongoing issue with bangood that has been progressing slowly since April and expect that it will continue for several more months, nuch like the evolution and mfg of the Q8! Smile (of course my experience with the Q8 has been and hopefully will continue to been overwhelmingly positive!)