Test/review of LiitoKala INR26650-50A 5000mAh (Black)

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Andrew_Debbie
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The four I ordered from store 133859 7 September are on a slow rail mail journey.

Package status: In transit
Destination: United Kingdom
Origin: China
2018-09-29 16:55 Urumqi Processing Center, has been exported directly
2018-09-29 14:14 Urumqi, has been opened for export
2018-09-26 18:18 Xinjiang Urumqi receiving and receiving center, has left, the next station processing center
2018-09-26 17:33 Xinjiang Urumqi receiving and receiving center, has been sealed
2018-09-15 10:08 Xinjiang Urumqi receiving and receiving center, has been received
===========================================

volchyonok
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Andrew_Debbie wrote:
are on a slow rail mail journey.

In your place, you should not worry about the speed of delivery, but rather take care of the guaranteed safety and reliability of the elements from this manufacturer, which today already makes very dangerous elements Facepalm
Here is an example of the quality of these black elements, which can be purchased in the official store “liitokala Official Store” LiitoKala-5000
Read the reviews, where you can find the story of one of the last buyers, who, together with the charger IMAX, these elements suddenly began to explode one by one. His review is in Russian, so here I can provide a literal translation with attached photos, which he sent.

12.10.2018

- “Заказывал на электровел 40 шт. Буду собирать 13s3p (надеюсь получить 48v 15000mah). Дошло быстро CDECKом, всё соответствует описанию. Есть небольшой разброс по вольтажу. Но тест на ёмкость показал ровно 5000mah (хотя разряжал до 3v) Насколько они долговечны время покажет, но а пока рекомендую.”

- “I ordered 40 pcs for electrovel. I will collect 13s3p (I hope to get 48v 15000mah). It came quickly CDECK, everything fits the description. There is a small variation in voltage. But the capacity test showed exactly 5000mah (although it discharged up to 3v) As far as they are durable, time will tell, but for now, I recommend.”

13.10.2018

- “Проект под угрозой! Какие-то они реально взрывоопасные! Я чуть хату не спалил. Заряжал IMAXом до 4.2V током 0.5C периодически проверяя чтобы не было нагрева, как вдруг шипение и сильный хлопок, забегаю в комнату а там: шторы горят, линолеум горит, пол комнаты горит. Еле потушил. БУДТЕ ОСТОРОЖНЫ! P.S. Взорвался третий по счёту. Осталось ещё 37 проверить.”

- “The project is under threat! Some of them are really explosive! I almost burned the hut. I charged IMAX up to 4.2V with current 0.5C periodically checking that there was no heating, when suddenly hissing and strong cotton, I run into the room and there: the curtains are burning, linoleum is burning, the floor of the room is burning. Hardly put out. BE CAREFUL! P.S. Blasted the third in a row. There are still 37 more to check.”

Of course, briefly checking the batteries on test benches and drawing graphs is one thing, and operating them in everyday life is another matter !!!

JasonWW
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volchyonok wrote:
Andrew_Debbie wrote:
are on a slow rail mail journey.

In your place, you should not worry about the speed of delivery, but rather take care of the guaranteed safety and reliability of the elements from this manufacturer, which today already makes very dangerous elements Facepalm

This is all quite odd.
I’ve used mine regularly for about 9 months charging them at either 2A or 3A each. Discharging them at up to 17A, but normally closer to 10A. I’ve had no problems. I haven’t heard of anyone having problems with these cells.

I would like to know more about this particular situation. I guess he was using the SKYRC Imax B6 charger. Was he charging 3 cells in series?

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JasonWW][quote=volchyonok][quote=Andrew_Debbie wrote:
I would like to know more about this particular situation. I guess he was using the SKYRC Imax B6 charger. Was he charging 3 cells in series?

I do not know about this story details. Above showed a link to this store and there you can find this review with all the photos. If you have not noticed the link, then I can repeat it without masking its size – https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/2PCS-LiitoKala-26650-50A-5000mah-26650-Li...
I assume that the current IMAX constant charging current (not pulsed) is too dangerous for these black elements.
This is absolutely fresh information, because until that moment I hadn’t heard about the similar explosiveness of batteries from this manufacturer (repacker of external labels?) Either. But, it was before, in the past. Now apparently Is the quality of LiitoKala much more dangerous Question
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Due to the popularity of the LiitoKala 26650 cells it may be possible that some AliExpress sellers are selling sub-par products: PLB factory rejects or even cells from another manufacturer. There is people reporting cells with different weight and capacity, even the top looks slightly different. Beware.

AliExpress does not have proper customer protection policies, at least not against li-ion cell fraud. It can be risky buying this stuff from there.

Look:

 

Good (blue) and bad (black). In HKJ's reviews (blue, black) measured cell weight was 95.3 and 95.7g, 0.4g more for the latter because of the sticker.

LiitoKala either went downhill or was bad to start with in this respect, or is being faked by AliExpress sellers. They've used/use the bait and switch tactic. 

As an example, take a moment and see the actual cell prices other retailers ask for LiitoKala cells: FastTech and GearBest. The difference is huge.

 

volchyonok, my advice for you is to buy the Lii-40A cell, based on Lishen LR21700SA cells. Or get these cheap BAK 18650 rewraps. They're more than adequate for an e-bike, no problem with power output because your cell pack is big. Just be cautious and do your figures for up to 35W/cell with the Lii-40A/LR21700SA cells, and maybe ≈25W/cell for the EAIEP BAK 18650 rewraps. Better safe than sorry. Fraud with li-ion cell sales seems to be mostly focused on high discharge cells, thus one problem less for you.

If, for example, you aim to feed a 48V electric motor, plese bear in mind the actual voltage output from the battery reduces with load because of cell internal resistances. So, instead of 13S I would go 14 or 15S, depending on battery width too (number of cells in parallel).

For example, 90 pieces Lii-40A cells can be configured 15S6P, a pack which can deliver up to 3150W average guaranteed, thus going nicely strong for 1000 - 2000W of 48V electric motors and related electronics. Or 120 pieces of the aforementioned BAK 18650 cells in 15S8P.

The battery pack peak power output cannot harm the motors or electronics, they just make use of what they require. However, if your cell pack cannot deliver enough power output problems can arise.

 

Cheers Smile 

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I was under the impression that the Liitokala black cells had been superseded or replaced by the new 5100mah blue cells. Same for the older 5000mah blue ones. It looks like the old blues ones are still being sold by Fastech. Maybe old stock?

Also, ten months ago when I ordered my black Liitokala, from the same store we mentioned earlier, it seemed to ship from Egypt to the US instead of China and it took about 5 weeks. Maybe it went from China to Egypt then to US? Kind of strange.

I just bought some Aspire 4300mah a few days ago. I may also try the Shockli 5500mah. I may not buy any more Liitokala until we get some more tests or verify they are not cheap fakes. Just my opinion.

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JasonWW wrote:
I was under the impression that the Liitokala black cells had been superseded or replaced by the new 5100mah blue cells. Same for the older 5000mah blue ones. It looks like the old blues ones are still being sold by Fastech. Maybe old stock?

Superseded? Big Smile

These 5100mAh cells with a big sticker above the wrap God knows where they come from. Under “Products -> LiitoKala Battery” on their chinese web site that thing is nowhere to be found, so probably some sort of fake and/or bait and switch stuff from immoral AliExpress sellers.

Probably the cells are decent, but there are already many reports of sub 5000mAh capacity and inconsistent quality on cells which were tested above 5000mAh at 1C discharge (per Power Long Battery OEM specifications) by HKJ.

Give me those old style PLB wrapped cells with transparent LiitoKala tag any day.

 

Cheers Smile 

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Barkuti wrote:

JasonWW wrote:
I was under the impression that the Liitokala black cells had been superseded or replaced by the new 5100mah blue cells. Same for the older 5000mah blue ones. It looks like the old blues ones are still being sold by Fastech. Maybe old stock?

Superseded? Big Smile


These 5100mAh cells with a big sticker above the wrap God knows where they come from. Under “Products -> LiitoKala Battery” on their chinese web site that thing is nowhere to be found, so probably some sort of fake and/or bait and switch stuff from immoral AliExpress sellers.


Probably the cells are decent, but there are already many reports of sub 5000mAh capacity and inconsistent quality on cells which were tested above 5000mAh at 1C discharge (per Power Long Battery OEM specifications) by HKJ.


Give me those old style PLB wrapped cells with transparent LiitoKala tag any day.


 


Cheers Smile 


Lots of people measured this new blue 5100mah and got capacity readings of over 5000mah to maybe 5200mah. So who knows. ???

I guess I need to buy a scale so I can measure any new batteries. Lol

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volchyonok wrote:

I don’t know if I did the right thing, whether there are already today fakes on the Golisi S43 elements, but I ordered such batteries (42 pieces) 26650 from this seller Arrow Right ?????
Is it possible to determine if the Golisi-4300 batteries are genuine / genuine in this store, or are they just fakes? Some time after the order, I noticed that the characteristics on the Golisi S43 indicate the YKS brand unknown to me (is it possible that it’s just the store’s trademark?), But the seller himself mostly trades in different nonsense, including real rubbish 18650 9800-9900mAh

volchyonok, you can cancel an AliExpress order for at least until the seller has your shipment ready. If not sure, cancel such order. You can ask the seller your concerns, and it may serve you for a dispute later if the product is not right.

 

Cheers Party 

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volchyonok wrote:

(snip)
But the seller himself mostly trades in different nonsense, including real rubbish 18650 9800-9900mAh


That don’t sound good…… Sad

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LoL fellows, sellers sell what the consumer demands! Big Smile

Don't be unnecessarily judgemental my dears, if there is happy people buying UltraFake UFK18650-99FK  cells let them live their  happiness. They may believe ignorance is happiness or sort of, which of course is bad. Facepalm

If you wanna be certain that your cells are genuine you can also look here volchyonokhttps://eu.nkon.nl

There are some first brand 18650 cells with nice price to energy density and discharge/power output ratios: LG INR18650-M26Panasonic NCR18650PF or even the Samsung INR18650-29E.

 

Cheers Smile 

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Barkuti wrote:
LoL

Do you seriously believe that elements with a maximum current output of 8A or even 10A can be useful to me for such a heavy consumer as electric transport? The best out of 18650 is the Panasonic PF-2900, but they need too many pieces (in the “P”) for the 14S battery, otherwise they will soon feel something like this –

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volchyonok wrote:
Barkuti wrote:
LoL

Do you seriously believe that elements with a maximum current output of 8A or even 10A can be useful to me for such a heavy consumer as electric transport?

Lots of high capacity/low drain 18650’s works fine for Telsa. Even using their Ludicrous mode. So why not a bicycle?

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JasonWW wrote:
Lots of high capacity/low drain 18650’s works fine for Telsa.

Now they insisted on another and persuaded all reputable manufacturers to release the new standard 20700 and 21700. Ask them why it was necessary to reject the “best” 18650, especially today when there is a large selection of updated versions of this old form factor?

JasonWW wrote:
So why not a bicycle?

If I make a lot of “P”, then the battery will be even harder, and there is no room for so many 18650. In addition, 18650 does not like charging currents more than 300-500mA, so the charging process will be too long. I have already received my device with a charge current of 2A. Some people in the reviews said that this device actually has 2.4-2,5A. Such output currents will very quickly kill 18650. Even for 26650, it is desirable to use a charge of no more than 1A. For conventional (low-current) 26650, even a charging current of 750mA is generally better. And now I have 2A, so there’s not even a talk about any 18650.
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volchyonok wrote:
teacher wrote:
That don’t sound good_…… Sad

If something seemed rude, then I apologize wildly – the language barrier may be to blame. However, as warned by the post above, you must really be careful, because “9800 & 9900”, even being completely new from the store, can also have “lowered tires”
!
No, nothing was rude at all. No apology is necessary. Smile

I was agreeing with you that the seller who sells those 18650 batteries does not sound like a good one.

We all know that capacity 18650 battery does not exist. They are fakes.

I hope you have sucess finding the battery you need… Real ones and not fakes. Smile

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0K, let me get this straight and sorry if it may sound rude.

First of all, what is the e-bike target power requirement and what is the allowable maximum battery weight?

An e-bike is not a @#$%ing drill or any other power tool in which top power output cells may be required due to battery size constraints!

If I am to build an e-bike, I select a battery big enough to provide me with at the very least adequate runtime even if not charging the battery to max.

Let's say I need to power a 1000W e-motor plus management electronics. 3x 40-packs of these inexpensive cells do it with ease. 120 cells of that class means 1200+Wh of energy in 6Kg of battery weight. Even if we are to consider their discharge rate to just 8A/25W per cell (according to personal tests of received fake cells which totally look and capacity perform like these my measured average internal resistance out of 4 samples was 35.4mΩ, this is good for at least 10 to 12A given their capacity), 120 cells at 25W each cell is 3000W, and this is a conservative figure. You could power two 1000W e-motors with such a pack a still have plenty of surplus.

And with regards to available energy, ≈10Wh/cell × 120 cells = 1200Wh, this allows the e-bike to cruise at 1000W for more than an hour. This is great runtime given pack size and cost. And by the way, at 1KW you'll be cruising fast.

The Golisi 4300mAh cells are expensive and less energy dense. What's the point? Let that stuff there for vapers.

I can say this louder but maybe not clearer. Now please go spend your money in what you think/believe is best for you and know yourself. Good luck.

 

Cheers Smile 

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volchyonok wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
Lots of high capacity/low drain 18650’s works fine for Telsa.

Now they insisted on another and persuaded all reputable manufacturers to release the new standard 20700 and 21700. Ask them why it was necessary to reject the “best” 18650, especially today when there is a large selection of updated versions of this old form factor?

What they choose today is irrelevant. It could be political or financial reasons.

The fact is that the older style battery packs work well.

volchyonok wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
So why not a bicycle?

If I make a lot of “P”, then the battery will be even harder, and there is no room for so many 18650. In addition, 18650 does not like charging currents more than 300-500mA, so the charging process will be too long. I have already received my device with a charge current of 2A. Some people in the reviews said that this device actually has 2.4-2,5A. Such output currents will very quickly kill 18650. Even for 26650, it is desirable to use a charge of no more than 1A. For conventional (low-current) 26650, even a charging current of 750mA is generally better. And now I have 2A, so there’s not even a talk about any 18650.

If you want to buy batteries based on the charger you have then that is a different situation. Why did you not lead with this info. High drain cells are the way to go.

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Barkuti wrote:
The Golisi 4300mAh cells are and less energy dense.
I can say this louder…

There is no need to shout loudly, because I agree with you in many respects. Naturally, 4300×3 = 12 (Ah) and this is really a bit. According to measurements from Mooch, the total capacity may be even less, about 11Ah. Also, the elements of Golisi, even though they are among the most high-current, the recommended charge current is less than 2A (2A is the maximum allowable current for Golisi). However, although despite all my explanations above, even if this choice looks strange, the most important thing is different now. That is, the elements I ordered and paid for by the Golisi S43 26650 turned out to be authentic and not too old (expired).
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2A charging current will not kill a good 18650 cell, even if average drain! They're specced to be drained safely and without much stress a ≈7+A/2½C and you think 2A is too much charging current? @#$% @ #@%$& @% &@#@%$! Facepalm

Not because a manufacturer tells you this or advices you that those things are the only way or absolute truth in any way! They have their own interests and customer satisfaction is maybe just as prioritary as the amount of money customers make 'em earn without posing too much trouble.

Get a bigger battery at the right price per piece.

I'm done with this.

 

Cheers Party

Originally posted on Sun, 10/21/2018 - 10:54. Tiny fix.

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volchyonok wrote:

Also, the elements of Golisi, even though they are among the most high-current, the recommended charge current is less than 2A (2A is the maximum allowable current for Golisi).

Really? Only about 0.5C? Seems quite odd. I can not find any datasheet for the S43. I assumed it would be at least 1C.

In thinking about charge speed, you could also do the same as Tesla and drill battery packs, Etc and only charge the batteries up to about 4 volts. Just stick to the faster CC constant current type charge cycle. Avoid that time consuming constant voltage cycle that also adds extra stress to the battery. You will get much faster charging and extended battery life.

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Barkuti wrote:
you think 2A is too much charging current?

Do not just think, but I know it. High charging currents have come up with for those who have little time, but a lot of money. In addition, changing batteries to others requires not only new costs, but also a lot of time for rework. The situation becomes more complicated even when the battery is not factory-made, but self-made.
For the sake of interest, you can ask questions to manufacturers Shockli, Golisi and many others (if they answer you at all). Ask them why 18650 is not afraid of charging currents 2A (in your opinion), and at the same time for their 26650 they recommend currents in the area of ​​1A? In general, the Shockli 5500 is written about 0.5A …
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It’s seems very hard to get any data sheet for these small company, rewrapped batteries. I would charge the Shockli 5500 and Aspire 4300 at 3A. I don’t care. Lol

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JasonWW wrote:
I would charge the Shockli 5500 and Aspire 4300 at 3A. Lol

You must be a very kind person, so you don’t feel sorry for the power from the network for these foreign batteries. But then, may I ask, why not 5A or not 10A, because it would be so much faster?
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volchyonok wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
I would charge the Shockli 5500 and Aspire 4300 at 3A. Lol

You must be a very kind person, so you don’t feel sorry for the power from the network for these foreign batteries. But then, may I ask, why not 5A or not 10A, because it would be so much faster?

I have a Miboxer C4-12 charger. It only does 4 × 3A. I’ve had no issues with my blue and black Liitokala cells at 3A.

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JasonWW wrote:
I have a Miboxer C8-12 charger. It only does 4 × 3A.

Probably not C8-12, but C4-12? If it is a 4-slot device, then it has the ability to change the charging currents in this way:

for nickel: 0.1А / 0.2А / 0.3А / 0.4А / 0.5А / 0.6А / 0.7А / 0.8А / 0.9А / 1.0А and AUTO
for lithium: 0.1А / 0.2А / 0.3А / 0.5А / 0.8А / 1.0А / 1.5А / 2.0А / 2.5А / 3.0А and AUTO

So, most likely, you simply use the “auto” mode or the device after each new connection to the outlet always does it on its own, but you do not switch to manual mode to independently select charging currents.

JasonWW wrote:
I’ve had no issues with my blue and black Liitokala cells at 3A.

They are ahead, especially since you do not have a normal powerful discharge device with a high discharge current to assess the current state of health of the elements you specified https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/150-60-10A/32879958043.html?spm=a2g0s.130...

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Yes, C4-12.

I manually set each cell to 3A. Sometimes it may go to 2.1A or 2.4A, etc… so I confirm 3A or else set it manually. I have no idea why you would assume I dont.

Edit: Oh, I see. You thought I was saying that charger only had one charge rate. My point was it only goes up to 3A.

My normal powerful discharge device is my modded Convoy L6 which drives a pair of them to 17A on turbo. I use it nightly at work.

I don’t know what “They are ahead” means.

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Still waiting on the new blue ones.

FWIW my Black and Gold Lii-50A have been fine. All of them check test slightly over 5000mAh.

I never charge at more than 2A. None of my 26650 lights are especially demanding. (Convoy L6, Convoy BD06, Emisar D4S with 219c) The Emisar firmware limits turbo to 80%. I’ve run the D4s to thermal step-down several times and haven’t noticed any problems with the battery. The L6 draws 5A on high. The BD06 (7135 * 8) is only 2.8A on high.

Recent check of my last unused Black and Gold. It was sitting for about 10 months before the capacity test.

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volchyonok wrote:
Barkuti wrote:
you think 2A is too much charging current?

Do not just think, but I know it. High charging currents have come up with for those who have little time, but a lot of money. In addition, changing batteries to others requires not only new costs, but also a lot of time for rework. The situation becomes more complicated even when the battery is not factory-made, but self-made.
For the sake of interest, you can ask questions to manufacturers Shockli, Golisi and many others (if they answer you at all). Ask them why 18650 is not afraid of charging currents 2A (in your opinion), and at the same time for their 26650 they recommend currents in the area of 1A? In general, the Shockli 5500 is written about 0.5A ...

Aaah, you know it! What makes you know something?

Since you know, why are you asking here?

Am I smelling adamantness? Look here for the Love of God: https://www.powerlongbattery.com/battery-cells/li-ion-battery-for-electric-vehicle/3-6v-3-7v-5500mah-nicomn-battery-cell-for-evs.html

That is the official Power Long Battery page for the cell Shockli is rewrapping, and it says the following:

Charge current. Standard 0.5C (≈2.75A for a 5500mAh cell), max 1C (≈5.5A for a 5500mAh cell)

 

These recommendations you hear of maybe are just recommendations for Joe/Jane Sixpack (uneducated people who know no better). Shockli and his advices can suck my… bird.

 

Cheers Smile 

volchyonok
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JasonWW wrote:
My normal powerful discharge device is my modded Convoy L6 which drives a pair of them to 17A on turbo. I use it nightly at work.

Are you talking about “Chinese amps” – 17A or about familiar amps for all other countries? (I wonder how many parallel drivers in your lantern is 7135?)
This is already in the past, but earlier it was possible to find a small Chinese hand-held radio tape recorder, which was written about the power of its 1000W-2500W speakers … (lol)

JasonWW wrote:
I don’t know what “They are ahead” means.

And it is very good that you do not know Innocent

Barkuti wrote:
That is the official Power Long Battery page for the cell Shockli is rewrapping, and it says the following:
Charge current. Standard 0.5C (≈2.75A for a 5500mAh cell), max 1C (≈5.5A for a 5500mAh cell)

Actually, these are not recommendations of the manufacturer and, moreover, in no way a guide for careful use with a long resource. This is just a guarantee that with such operation its batteries will not explode. Understand, if you took the place of PLB or some other manufacturer who needs sales, then you yourself would have written on your batteries and not such a nonsense. Moreover, the higher currents you give to your batteries, the faster you will come to the store to buy again – the main thing is sales and the money received, which allow you to survive and feed your children.
By the way, Shockli told you that his “5500” is from PLB or is it all just someone guesses on the forum?

Barkuti wrote:
Shockli and his advices can suck my… bird.

Before choosing elements for a future battery, I dreamed of taking the batteries from Shockli (black version 5500). When the scenario “14S-3P” is 42 pieces, that is, it could be decent money. However, something went wrong and, unfortunately, it was just before my order that Shockli removed the discounts on this black model and on the black 21700, and when I asked to make an exception, then the seller from his store (woman) sent me to the choice of green “5250”, which I consider a real failure, and not the progress of Shockli. Interestingly, after my choice of batteries from another seller, Shockli returned the previous discounts on the model “5500”, so, apparently, It was not my fate to buy batteries from Shockli “and get a higher capacity (approximately 16.5Ah instead of 12Ah or even 11Ah with Golisi) Sad
JasonWW
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volchyonok wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
My normal powerful discharge device is my modded Convoy L6 which drives a pair of them to 17A on turbo. I use it nightly at work.

Are you talking about “Chinese amps” – 17A or about familiar amps for all other countries? (I wonder how many parallel drivers in your lantern is 7135?)
This is already in the past, but earlier it was possible to find a small Chinese hand-held radio tape recorder, which was written about the power of its 1000W-2500W speakers … (lol)

Chinese amps…

It is right there in my signature if you want to know the answer. Wink

Texas Ace Lumen Tube calibrated with Maukka lights

Click this to go to signature links.

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