Test/review of LiitoKala INR26650-50A 5000mAh (Black)

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Barkuti
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Thanks for pinpointing correction Henrik. The reason I ended up believing “they must be using an AC method” was because of the large divergence between my proven good DC internal resistance measurement method and those provided by the charger even if rail burdened.

Conclusion: cheap chargers measure internal resistance very poorly.

 

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Barkuti wrote:

Thanks for pinpointing correction Henrik. The reason I ended up believing “they must be using an AC method” was because of the large divergence between my proven good DC internal resistance measurement method and those provided by the charger even if rail burdened.

There is also the detail that different measurement methods will give different result, maybe I need to do some more writing about resistance measurements.

Barkuti wrote:

Conclusion: cheap chargers measure internal resistance very poorly.

This can also be seen in my reviews of them.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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Can i ask where you guys are buying the Genuine Liitokala 26650 cells, the ones that don’t turn inside out when you charge them?

I thought the Liitokala direct store on aliexpress was the one but it seems there are a few others such as the flag ship Liitokala store etc

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The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Can i ask where you guys are buying the Genuine Liitokala 26650 cells, the ones that don't turn inside out when you charge them?

The ones that don't turn inside out when you charge them… Is this serious? I know I can turn inside out a t-shirt, for example, but what 26650 cells turn inside out when you charge them? 

The LiitoKala whatever store phenomena is a consequence of many sellers selling the same product they can buy somewhere. Theoretically the most official store is #217753 (the one you get when you click/tap the LiitoKala banner at the bottom of their site's front page). They're known to be somewhat rogue, they even used the photograph of a known famous actress in their shop while contending she was their CEO Ashley zhang 

I'd buy the cells in LiitoKala Direct Store (#1823237) and be done with it.

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Barkuti wrote:

The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Can i ask where you guys are buying the Genuine Liitokala 26650 cells, the ones that don’t turn inside out when you charge them?

The ones that don’t turn inside out when you charge them… Is this serious?

Yes totally serious some of the substandard 18650 & 26650 cells can explode, they cant handle high C drain or fast charge because they have small Lipo poly cells inside full size cases.

Thanks for the links

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The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Can i ask where you guys are buying the Genuine Liitokala 26650 cells, the ones that don’t turn inside out when you charge them?

I thought the Liitokala direct store on aliexpress was the one but it seems there are a few others such as the flag ship Liitokala store etc

There is probably no such thing as “the” Liitokala store as even the supposedly official store sells fake 18650’s. However, I purchased my Liitokala 26650 from HERE and posted an initial capacity test HERE. It’s obviously a real 26650 that doesn’t turn inside-out, but…

The cells people are receiving seem to consistently report more than 5400mAh, while HKJ’s tests of both cyan and black Liitokala 26650’s were around 5200mAh at the 500mA discharge rate that many chargers impose. It’s not at all clear if these are still the same cells tested by HKJ, but I’ve found that my cell performs fine in my Astrolux FT03 SST40, which I use every day.

However, my LK 26650 is not quite as bright on a lux meter as a high-drain 21700 in the aforementioned light, so I would want a better cell in an FT03 XHP50.2. The Shockli 5500mAh is pricey and rather difficult to obtain unless you buy a pair, but it’s certainly a better cell, especially at 10A and above.

For $4.21/ea. with free shipping (for me in the U.S., at least), the Liitokala is an unbeatable value. I use my FT03 for sustained periods and tend to appreciate the long runtime of the 26650 when compared with the short-lived, slight brightness increase of a high-drain 21700.

At that price and capacity (1610mAh/$ for 10 cells, shipped), this should be a good cell for use in a battery pack. The cell mass might lead to cooling issues in larger packs, but likely only with extreme currents.

RobAllen

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leftdisconnected wrote:

There is probably no such thing as "the" Liitokala store as even the supposedly official store sells fake 18650's. However, I purchased my Liitokala 26650 from HERE and posted an initial capacity test HERE. It's obviously a real 26650 that doesn't turn inside-out, but...

You purchased from #217753, liitokala Official Store, literally. No big deal, of course, I could have done the same. These cells are easy to obtain for chinese lads and lasses, they're manufactured by Power Long Battery, likely the market leader in 26650 development and manufacturing by a long shot. Their latest developments look to be in LiFePO4 cells, with the highest power delivery/discharge rate 26650 (rewrapped by Vapcell, reviewed by HKJ) and a newer, 3800mAh LiFePO4 cell (more here). From a more western standpoint their cell product page is an incomprehensible mess. 

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Thank you for the replies leftdisconnected & Barkuti this issue of fake batteries really is a PITA

In China they are not content to simply Knock off a product at reasonable quality, as soon as a Chinese product gets any reputation for being good it is immediately knocked off again by other Chinese competitors then eventually just out right Faked

Trying to find legit batteries is an ongoing issue , I usually stick with Panasonic NCR18650 , if i see 3400Mah i consider them genuine (perhaps this is a mistake) but capacity readings on my charger are really all i have to go on.

With these newer 26650 cells there are already stacks of fakes which don’t even get close to their claimed specification and in some cases are quite dangerous, 2 sets i’ve tested so far struggle to make even half their claimed capacity and i have no idea what their TRUE safe max C discharge rating is

I have just ordered a batch from #217753, liitokala Official Store that leftdisconnected & Barkuti posted, il update the thread when they arrive to confirm if they still measure up to previous samples

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The_Fat_Controller wrote:

Trying to find legit batteries is an ongoing issue , I usually stick with Panasonic NCR18650 , if i see 3400Mah i consider them genuine (perhaps this is a mistake) but capacity readings on my charger are really all i have to go on.

You left off the letter after NCR18650. With 3400 I’m guessing NCR18650B. This is a very old model, the GA is newer and better.

With 18650 it’s easy to find legit cells. Stick to the big Japanese company brands (LG, Panasonic/Sanyo, Sony, Samsung) and buy from trusted sources. Don’t buy from companies you have never heard of or have no reputation.

26650 is a different story. None of the big Japanese companies make this size. You can still buy from trusted sources, though. I know a lot of Europeans buy from https://eu.nkon.nl/

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JasonWW wrote:
The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Trying to find legit batteries is an ongoing issue , I usually stick with Panasonic NCR18650 , if i see 3400Mah i consider them genuine (perhaps this is a mistake) but capacity readings on my charger are really all i have to go on.
You left off the letter after NCR18650. With 3400 I’m guessing NCR18650B. This is a very old model, the GA is newer and better.

Yes NCR18650B they have served me very well for a number of years and come in button top (protected) so i trust them in my multi cell torches ive not bothered to try anything else i assume you’re referring to the Sanyo NCR18650GA do they also come in button top protected??

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JasonWW wrote:
26650 is a different story. None of the big Japanese companies make this size. You can still buy from trusted sources, though. I know a lot of Europeans buy from https://eu.nkon.nl/

Nkon is by far the best source for batteries in Europe, low prices and you don’t have to worry about fakes.

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RollerBoySE wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
26650 is a different story. None of the big Japanese companies make this size. You can still buy from trusted sources, though. I know a lot of Europeans buy from https://eu.nkon.nl/

Nkon is by far the best source for batteries in Europe, low prices and you don’t have to worry about fakes.

The keep power 5500mah Protected on that site look interesting thanks!

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The_Fat_Controller wrote:

i assume you’re referring to the Sanyo NCR18650GA do they also come in button top protected??

Yes, same company now.
It should be available in button top protected. It basically replaced the older B version. Same capacity, but higher charge and discharge ability. It can maintain higher voltage under load. The chart below shows voltage with very light loads. The difference gets bigger as the load increases. I do not buy the B version any more.


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JasonWW wrote:
The_Fat_Controller wrote:

i assume you’re referring to the Sanyo NCR18650GA do they also come in button top protected??

. I do not buy the B version any more.


.

Kinda looks like I won’t be either , they do look a good bit better thank you for the info!!

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NKON has some interesting offers right now:

Of course, classic Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA and Samsung INR18650-35E.

Concerning li-ion 26650s NKON hasn't anything worth mentioning, imho. They have rewrapped cells but little OEM stuff. Efest is run by an undependable bunch of dorks, no need to say anything else (go ask Mooch at the E-Cigarette Forum). KeepPower likes to capacity overrate their cells and asks more money than I'd be willing to pay.

The LiitoKala 26650 cells are a safe bet with excellent value. If you aim to get the PLB INR26650-55A (1C rated), Shockli is the way to go as far as I know.

In LiFePO4 league, the ANR26650M1-B looks great.

Suffice to say value for money is important for me. 

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The_Fat_Controller wrote:
RollerBoySE wrote:
JasonWW wrote:
26650 is a different story. None of the big Japanese companies make this size. You can still buy from trusted sources, though. I know a lot of Europeans buy from https://eu.nkon.nl/

Nkon is by far the best source for batteries in Europe, low prices and you don’t have to worry about fakes.

The keep power 5500mah Protected on that site look interesting thanks!


That is the PLB 5500mah (same as Shockli 5500mah) that is quite good. They carry with or without protection circuits.
The iJoy 4200 is a good high drain 26650 for when you need lots of amps.

Their current 26650 selection is a bit small.

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JasonWW wrote:
The_Fat_Controller wrote:

The keep power 5500mah Protected on that site look interesting thanks!

That is the PLB 5500mah (same as Shockli 5500mah) that is quite good. They carry with or without protection circuits.

Wow since when did they “downgraded” their cell rating? For once well done I have to say.

Still some old stock can be found in AliExpress, very little though: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=keeppower+26650+6000mah

Typical capacity of such cell at 0.2C rating is 5700+mAh, remember PLB rates at 1C.

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Barkuti wrote:

JasonWW wrote:
The_Fat_Controller wrote:

The keep power 5500mah Protected on that site look interesting thanks!

That is the PLB 5500mah (same as Shockli 5500mah) that is quite good. They carry with or without protection circuits.

Wow since when did they “downgraded” their cell rating? For once well done I have to say.


Still some old stock can be found in AliExpress, very little though: https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=keeppower+26650+6000mah


Typical capacity of such cell at 0.2C rating is 5700+mAh, remember PLB rates at 1C.


I think it was maybe 2 or 3 months ago.

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Would it be fair to say the max MAH for
18650 =3400mah
26650= 5500mah

Any battery claiming to be above those figures should be avoided as even the very best manufacturers haven’t achieved cells above those capacities yet.

(this eliminates a great number *.fire & green wraps)

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The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Would it be fair to say the max MAH for 18650 =3400mah 26650= 5500mah

You are nearly correct.
Use this table: https://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryIndex.html
Click on the header of the 0.2A column to sort with highest capacity first.
Then you can select battery size in the size column and see the largest capacity I have seen.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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HKJ wrote:
The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Would it be fair to say the max MAH for 18650 =3400mah 26650= 5500mah

You are nearly correct.
Use this table: https://lygte-info.dk/info/batteryIndex.html
Click on the header of the 0.2A column to sort with highest capacity first.
Then you can select battery size in the size column and see the largest capacity I have seen.

Brilliant Table, My god a lone .Fire battery actually achieved its stated capacity this has to be a world first?

Edit: oh no i read the wrong the column , they still lied.

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The_Fat_Controller wrote:
Would it be fair to say the max MAH for
18650 =3400mah
26650= 5500mah

Any battery claiming to be above those figures should be avoided as even the very best manufacturers haven’t achieved cells above those capacities yet.

(this eliminates a great number *.fire & green wraps)


Pretty much.
3500mah is the 18650 limit with cells such as the LG MJ1 and and Samsung 35E. I think there was a new cell labeled a 3600, but it actually measured closer to 3500.

5500mah is the limit for 26650 although Keeppower used 6000 on their older label. These PLB cells actually measure around 5750mah.

So any 18650 higher than 3600mah and any 26650 higher than 6000mah are probably misrepresenting themselves.

PS, I think the highest capacity 21700 is 5200mah, but new ones are popping up all the time.

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Thank you for the review and comments.
I have a few of them which I got pretty cheap and given the high current I’m thinking of using them to make a pack for my 18V chainsaw.
Upon 1A testing, the record capacity among 10 tested cells was 5991mAh, which is pretty nice.
So instead of using 5S4P 18650s (which was getting me near 12Ah) I’m willing to sacrifice them to try a 5S2P setup with this type of cell.

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Overmind wrote:
Thank you for the review and comments.
I have a few of them which I got pretty cheap and given the high current I’m thinking of using them to make a pack for my 18V chainsaw.
Upon 1A testing, the record capacity among 10 tested cells was 5991mAh, which is pretty nice.
So instead of using 5S4P 18650s (which was getting me near 12Ah) I’m willing to sacrifice them to try a 5S2P setup with this type of cell.

Pound for pound (volume to volume) the 18650 and 21700 from the big 5 Japanese companies have the highest capacity.
Consider that the 26650 has right around double the volume of an 18650 cell. If they made an 26650, which they dont, it would be 7000mah.

I’m guessing the cells they used in the battery pack were not the highest capacity? They tend to use cheaper cells to keep costs down.

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With chainsaws, you need very low resistance, which usually means, lower energy density in exchange for higher power density.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

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BlueSwordM wrote:
With chainsaws, you need very low resistance, which usually means, lower energy density in exchange for higher power density.

Do you? I thought the same about Tesla cars. I assumed they needed low resistance for more power, but they use the highest capacity cells available. The sheer number of cells gave them all the amps they need.

With 20 cells in the chainsaw battery pack, you might not need such high amperage from each cell.

I wish we knew what cells they used.

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The PLB INR26650-55A is like 2x 18650 mid capacity and power cells. 5S2P is 10 cells, with a maximum continuous power delivery of 60W/each. Thus, 600W continuous maximum gross input power to the motor. I am no expert in chainsaws but that sounds quite lacking. 30 cells could do up to 1800W continuous and be about comfortable at 1500W continuous, which is just ≈2HP anyway. But electric engines have very high amounts of torque at low to mid rpm, and so…

 

 

These Makita batteries look quite small, like drill batteries. Still, surprising  result. But just a bit.

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@JasonWW – true what you say about the volume-capacity ratio: 18650s are the best, but that is due to the heavy investment in them. They are the most used today. 26650s may improve due to the upcoming electric cars.

Also note that the Panasonic 3500mAh 18650 is limited to 10A and I have not seen any in any power tools (and no power tool batteries like 3.5Ah or 7Ah). The best they all use are the Samsung 3000mAh, which by all fair stadards are not really 3000mAh at high current.

@BlueSwordM – yes, higher current instead of higher capacity. This is preferable for any top power tools.

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Overmind wrote:

Also note that the Panasonic 3500mAh 18650 is limited to 10A and I have not seen any in any power tools (and no power tool batteries like 3.5Ah or 7Ah). …

The price per unit of the NCR18650GA is rather high, it's a relatively expensive high capacity and mid power cell.

Considering standard 0.2C discharge and cut-off, according to Henrik's reviews no 18650 does 3400mAh typical.

Bunch of liars. 

Power Long Battery, the main 26650 OEM by a difference, rates their cells at 1C. This means slightly higher effective capacity.

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Overmind wrote:
@JasonWW – true what you say about the volume-capacity ratio: 18650s and 21700 are the best, but that is due to the heavy investment in them. They are the most used today.

I don’t know about this. It’s not so much the size of the container as it is the quality of the chemical mix inside. The big 5 have the best mixes and they don’t make the 26650 size.

26650s may improve due to the upcoming electric cars.

I don’t know of any electric cars using 26650. It seems unlikely they will use that size. Tesla chose the 21700 because if it were any larger in diameter they would not be able to cool it properly. Are you thinking there will be some Chinese electric cars that will, or do already, use 26650? If you hear of any, let me know.

Also note that the Panasonic 3500mAh 18650 is limited to 10A continuous.

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