30Q suddenly died

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Agro
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30Q suddenly died

My C8 failed to work today. I just pulled the battery and measured it at nearly exactly 2 V.
What could have happened? Driver has low voltage protection at 2.8V, so even accidental activation shouldn’t discharge it so deep.
There are no signs of heat. Short through a high-resistance path?

I connected it to 60 mA Cottonpickers charger immediately, I hope I can revive it…

Edited by: Agro on 11/14/2017 - 16:43
luminarium iaculator
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Don’t rely on driver protection pal. It is over discharged… That happened. Even bad charger can do that so check your charger also.

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When low voltage protection kicks in, it doesnt turn off the light, it keeps blinking in low mode (forever??) and maybe you left the flashlight in low voltage protection state long enough to drain the cell to 2V. That’s only an assumption of course.

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Lightbringer
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I’m probably gonna get dogpiled on, but you can often resurrect a “dead” cell just fine, as long as it hasn’t been that way for too long.

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Agro
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Yeah, resurrection is exactly what I’m trying now. It’s back to 2.33 V already. Gets slightly warm, but the free USB port is next to hot air exhaust (and my laptop is hot), so I’m not surprised.
I haven’t used the light since Thursday or maybe Wednesday, so it may have been in the overdischarged state for a while….

Beachlogger
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You may want to put an identifying mark on it if it does recover so you can keep track of it

Tom Tom
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I’ve done worse, and they have recovered OK, but usually laptop pulls of indeterminate chemistry (or any markings at-all).

I think the chemistries are different in their ability to live with supposedly fatal deep discharge.

Nothing to lose really.

stephenk
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I always mechanically lock out my lights when not in use to avoid this happening.

Tom Tom
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Ones with a mechanical tailswitch are safe enough. It’s the ones with e-switches where some circuitry, even a CPU, is always active which need attention.

Best to measure actual (not theoretical) parasitic drain yourself, or, as you say, disconnect.

Illuminated tailcaps, “dragons breath” sideswitches etc. need looking at carefully.

It can be done very well, e.g. Q8 switch LED which takes negligible current when lit. And can be locked out completely with 4 clicks.

Or very badly, e.g. a very expensive Nitecore x2 18650 I own with e-switch, which can kill two cells in a couple of months when “off” and locked off.

Lightbringer
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Agro wrote:
Yeah, resurrection is exactly what I’m trying now. It’s back to 2.33 V already. Gets slightly warm, but the free USB port is next to hot air exhaust (and my laptop is hot), so I’m not surprised.

Ironically, sometimes a dumb charger works better at resurrecting the dead than a smart charger.

Agro wrote:
I haven’t used the light since Thursday or maybe Wednesday, so it may have been in the overdischarged state for a while….

Nah, that’s nothing. I meant left draining for months or even years, eg, a little-too-parasitic protection circuit.

I had a pair of protected 26650s left forgotten about for B’harni knows how long. One was bricked, completely 0V even after the protection circuit was pried off and measuring directly across the cell itself. The other had residual voltage, not too bad, works fine now. Using it in… hmm, think it was my DV-S9 first, now in my F13, I think. Still chugging along fine, good capacity.

I got some laptop pulls I’m trying to use to death, but it ain’t happening. Ancient Pannies in a 6-cell pack (3S2P), 2 were completely bricked, 4 had residual 2.something volts across ‘em. Charged up okay in an LK202, ‘though it had to “think about it” for a few min before even starting.

Capacity’s a fraction of new, for sure, but they’re perfectly usable for just kicking around. I always carry at least a spare “good” cell like a 30Q or Panny-B, so having it run down prematurely isn’t an issue.

Wondered how the 2S2P set would even charge “though” the bricked 1S2P in that pack. Might be they never saw any new charge at all when the bad ones, well, went bad. Either way, pretty freaking amazing they still got some usable oomf in ‘em at all.

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Biscotti firmware has LVP shutting down

Convoy Firmware only warns and LED and MCU still draw current

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What happens then you can look at videos showing lithium battery goes fireworks

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Agro
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stephenk wrote:
I always mechanically lock out my lights when not in use to avoid this happening.

Good idea, thanks.
Flashy Mike
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Depending on the driver hardware there is still current flowing even with LVP. Quite a lot through bleeder resistor and some through voltage dividers and mcu.

Nicolicous
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I have over discharged my 18650 batteries below 2.5v and manage to get it back alive with charger liitokala 500.

I don’t recommend over discharged but it happened

Smile

Can you lend me some money to buy new flashlights?

snakebite
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many cells nowadays spec capacity down to 2.5v and a few down to 2.0.
your 30q is probably fine.
but the light has an issue if it drains a cell that low.
vf of the led stops them from draining much lower than around 2.5v.
btw that 60ma charger is probably the safest way to revive a low cell.let it charge till it goes above 3v and charge as usual.

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I’ve noted on here before that I have had countless bad 30q cells. They will be sitting for a month or so after a charge or two and then… nothing. .35v or 0v. They usually, not always with awaken when first connected to a direct voltage or another cell but will have very poor performance. I first noticed this after buying 40 cells back in 2016. Of those cells, 12 of them are dead, 10 of them perform poorly and the rest of them are with other people unfortionately. I’ve had them quit on me along the way as well. Just this month I threw away 2 cells. I think there are much more fake cells out there than we realize. I stop buying 30qs even though the flash sale prices are very tempting. If I did buy them I would start marking and tracking them close.

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I’d suspect clone cells on those 30Q’s, Samsung is a top brand and you should be able to expect much better than that. I’m not sure how many 30Q’s I have but it has to be up there close that 40 and none have given me any issue, especially considering I run a lot of my 30Q in top shelf hard hitting lights.

Dale

JamesB
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LightRider do you 30Q perform like they should in capacity and high drain applications ?

No counterfeit will give you anywhere close to 3000mAh at or above 10A load, they probably won’t even give you close to 3000mAh at any load.

The 30Q are also known to be among the toughest, best abuse surviving cells one can get.

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LightRider wrote:
I’ve noted on here before that I have had countless bad 30q cells. They will be sitting for a month or so after a charge or two and then… nothing. .35v or 0v. They usually, not always with awaken when first connected to a direct voltage or another cell but will have very poor performance. I first noticed this after buying 40 cells back in 2016. Of those cells, 12 of them are dead, 10 of them perform poorly and the rest of them are with other people unfortionately. I’ve had them quit on me along the way as well. Just this month I threw away 2 cells. I think there are much more fake cells out there than we realize. I stop buying 30qs even though the flash sale prices are very tempting. If I did buy them I would start marking and tracking them close.

Sound like fakes to me. I have had/still have 20 to 25 30Q and have not had One issue. Most have been in use and the ones in storage were charged up and have worked fine.

If people were more like Dogs the world would be a better place. There would be much less conflict and violence,instead there would be true harmony and grace.

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LightRider
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JamesB wrote:
LightRider do you 30Q perform like they should in capacity and high drain applications ?

No counterfeit will give you anywhere close to 3000mAh at or above 10A load, they probably won’t even give you close to 3000mAh at any load.

The 30Q are also known to be among the toughest, best abuse surviving cells one can get.

No, they do not preform well. If charged or discharged at .5 Amps or above capacity is between 2200& 2400. Slow charge or discharge they will reach 2600.

I’ve bought a lot of 30q over the past couple years whenever they hit bottoms price. From gb bg & aliexpress. Mostly gearbest though. I have and many underperforming or bad cells during this time. The 9 cells from aliexpress, they had a sale for 3pcs set back in January of this year, were all fake/rewrapped/duds/underperforming/bad or whatever you want to call them. They were my go to cell but I’m staying away now.

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^^^^

Why don’t you order from a reputable dealer in the USA? Guaranteed my hometown dealer has real ones. I have been buying my 30Q off of him for a few years.He has a good reputation and great customer service. A group Buy set up by Robert B. was done last June.

This is for BT’s he also has FT’s. They are ONLY $5 and you will know that they are genuine.

https://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/products/samsung-inr186...

If people were more like Dogs the world would be a better place. There would be much less conflict and violence,instead there would be true harmony and grace.

                                                                                                           Wolfdog-5.23.2017

chinooker
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wolfdog1226 wrote:
^^^^

Why don’t you order from a reputable dealer in the USA?…..

So you order all your shit from USA???

wolfdog1226
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chinooker wrote:
wolfdog1226 wrote:
^^^^

Why don’t you order from a reputable dealer in the USA?…..

So you order all your shit from USA???

I don’t order shit. I get genuine and quality merchandise.

If people were more like Dogs the world would be a better place. There would be much less conflict and violence,instead there would be true harmony and grace.

                                                                                                           Wolfdog-5.23.2017

chinooker
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never mind

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Oh well, I remember FT used to sell pink Samsung INR18650-30Q printed on shrink-wraps before….( I just checked and they are gone at the moment)

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Have bought about two dozen 30Q’s from both BG and GB. Flat-top and button-top. Never had any problems.

I always think long and hard before I say something really stupid.

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Lightbringer wrote:
Ironically, sometimes a dumb charger works better at resurrecting the dead than a smart charger.

 

For 1S charging I can't see anything at all wrong with a "dumb" charger.  By "charger" I assume it's something current limited.  So long as it's also voltage limited to 4.2V then you're 100% all set.   A time cuttoff (wall timer) wouldn't hurt, but leaving it on for 12 hours won't hurt anything, and I'm unconvinced that even a couple of days will.  I use my current and voltage limited supply to charge batteries with no problem.

Lightbringer
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Flintrock wrote:
For 1S charging I can’t see anything at all wrong with a “dumb” charger.  By “charger” I assume it’s something current limited.  So long as it’s also voltage limited to 4.2V then you’re 100% all set.

I particularly like that little ~2buk one at FT. Forgot the current output, only a coupla hunnert mA tops, so overnight is no problem.

Wanted to keep a LK-100B with me in my bag, but that one (AC) or one of the small Thorfire/Sofirn chargers (USB) are lots more compact.

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