2*AA side-by-side aluminum flashlight - DCF01 by Sofirn (Formerly: Resurrection of Duracell Durabeam)

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1stein
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Barry0892 wrote:
1stein wrote:
Quite sure the more people involves, the more options we’ll get. But let’s take a wider look. Assuming the Authors aim in creating an over – time classic, widely accessible and for many applications. Shouldn’t we think of ‘the market’? I don’t think (with all due respect) BLFers are a representative group. We’re all crazy about flashlights. To make it right, the Authors should ask a question, who is the potential customer. Let’s say it’ll be very lucky at BLF and sells in number of 1000. And then what? Mugles who bought are likely to return due to too complicated UI. Why not to use advanced processor and program it (flash the bios) just before sending? The same way we choose led temp. or ref type, we could choose software. Like at MTN. This way the light could reach more people, be more flexible and satisfy each group. Moreover, modding this light could be extended by multiple software versions. Anyway, I think the success of this light depends on its sales. BLF won’t bring more than 1000? But if it becames common at gas stations.. BOOM,millions…. So… The software could be developed, best if market research could prove which exactly functions are desired most by a regular buyer. Who that buyer is (statistics on many factors) etc…

A programmable driver is cool. The default UI is for muggles and if Flasholics want it with customized UI, sofirn can program it before shipping. Or you program it yourself.
But I don’t know how to fulfill it and how difficult it will be.

Sounds great to me. Multiple software versions are possible to cope with. MTN-Electonics’ solution is just picking the version from a roll list together with other drivers’ options.
I’ve read in this thread many good ideas for UI. Having such choice would be just awesome. Furthermore the time and money invested could also benefit to other models based on the same CPU.

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hank wrote:
Remember, you’re talking about something intended to be assembled chabuduo by Chinese workers” from cheapest-source part suppliers.

Quote:
If you are German or Northern European in general, you are likely used to things being done according to specifications and high standards. You probably wouldn’t expect less than 100%. As an American, you are may be used to a little more wiggle room. Not everything is quite as perfect, for example with regard to workmanship, but still very good, like 90-95%.

Not so in China. In China, the typical approach is summed up in one word: “chabuduo”, meaning “nearly” or “almost”. For most Chinese it also means “good enough”. You will hear this term a lot.

KISS. You need this to be far simpler and more robust than you want to imagine, to take up the slack.

Many Chinese have “chabuduo” thoery in mind but more in low end manufactuering. But more and more Chinese companies can do as well as world’s leading companies like DJI and Huawei. Even Fenix and Nitecore are Chinese companies.

Why MADE IN CHINA still means cheap and low quality for you guys?

Firstly, I wanna say, you got what you pay for.

Secondly, as far as I know, most small factories don’t have real quality control which needs a complex system and factories need to learn for years or decades. The little profit small Chinese factories made can NOT pay for a complex quality control system.

The process is Low price-Low profits-No money to improve-stuck in Low end manufactuering-bankrupt when orders transferred to other countries with lower cost. Factory try to improve – pay more to upgrade system and team- higher price don’t get sales- bankcrupt.

It’s really hard to change a consumers’ existed minds. But that is business. China is trying to climbing to a new level of manufacturing. I hope sofirn is one of them who succeed in several years.

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It’s exactly as you say: you get what you pay for.

But people found errors in manufacturing that could be really bad for the light. Missing O-rings (let in water), LEDs not secured to the shelf/pill (little thermal contact, so overheats and destroys the LED), and so on.

I think the difference which irks people is what’s done about it. Here in the States, something like a flashlight with an easy-to-spot defect, the buyer expects the seller to make good on it. Amazon rose to a huge size because of its “a to z” warranty. People know that if what they get is broken, or doesn’t match the picture or description, they can return it no-questions-asked and that’s done.

Unfortunately, the way most big sellers (BG, GB, KD, etc.) “settle” things is to just frustrate and anger the buyer hoping he goes away. Send back the item at your expense (more than the light costs!) for a replacement… maybe. If they don’t receive it, neither will you get the replacement, which could be just as broken. All it would take is to send a replacement O-ring, driver, etc., and let the person fix it himself, but in general, those sellers don’t.

That business model is “good enough”. “If you buy 20 things and 19 work, what are you complaining about?” That would never work over here.

That’s why Sofirn, Convoy, and some other sellers are near’n‘dear to BLF, because all someone needs to do is ask Tracy or Simon for a replacement, and it’s sent.

I even think it was you when you were back at Thorfire, that my TK05 went boom, and you sent a 99%-off code on Amazon for a replacement. Sure, I had to send a video to show what was the problem, but that was nothing. Things happen, and even if they do, it’s nice to have a company stand behind the product.

So, yeah, it’s a cultural thing. When something goes wrong, even if 1-in-20 products goes bad because of little if any quality-control, that’s not a problem IF the company makes good. The Amazon approach is, sure, we’ll send a replacement, refund what you paid, anything’n‘everything, just to make you happy. And that’s what people expect here.

But, and you have to admit it based on how some (most?) sellers behave, being frustrated into going away won’t work when something does go bad. That’s what people complain about. Mega big business ships a broken light, and you the little guy have to eat the cost. Or, that’s what they want, until you threaten to tell PayPal, etc.

 

See this thread: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67508 .

Riding a motorcycle that can lock up a wheel and kill you is not something you want to accept. Missing spacer, cracked bracket, things like that should have to be checked, but they’re not. “Good enough” doesn’t apply to safety. Yet it’s things like that which reinforce the “cheap junk” stereotype, sadly.

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rost333
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My answer to Barry: Poka-yoke

Benefits of poka-yoke implementation

A typical feature of poka-yoke solutions is that they don’t let an error in a process happen.
But that is just one of their advantages. Others include:
- Less time spent on training workers;
- Elimination of many operations related to quality control;
- Unburdening of operators from repetitive operations;
- Promotion of the work improvement-oriented approach and actions;
- A reduced number of rejects;
- Immediate action when a problem occurs;
- 100% built-in quality control.

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Barry0892 wrote:
Many Chinese have "chabuduo" thoery in mind but more in low end manufactuering. But more and more Chinese companies can do as well as world's leading companies like DJI and Huawei. Even Fenix and Nitecore are Chinese companies. Why MADE IN CHINA still means cheap and low quality for you guys? Firstly, I wanna say, you got what you pay for. Secondly, as far as I know, most small factories don't have real quality control which needs a complex system and factories need to learn for years or decades. The little profit small Chinese factories made can NOT pay for a complex quality control system. The process is Low price-Low profits-No money to improve-stuck in Low end manufactuering-bankrupt when orders transferred to other countries with lower cost. Factory try to improve - pay more to upgrade system and team- higher price don't get sales- bankcrupt. It's really hard to change a consumers' existed minds. But that is business. China is trying to climbing to a new level of manufacturing. I hope sofirn is one of them who succeed in several years.

Thank you Barry. There are a lot of social, cultural, economic, and political factors at play. I understand some of it well and some of it less well, but we do notice that Sofirn sets itself apart from what I would refer to as "cheap Chinese crap". Sofirn is making an effort, and despite all the challenges involved is doing a good job. There are even language barriers involved in BLF getting things how they want, and Sofirn does a good job. I'm not going to say Sofirn gets it perfect every time, but you're trying and it's appreciated.

rost333 wrote:
My answer to Barry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke

I started reading that and immediately thought "This sounds like that thing Toyota does" and then saw it mentioned further down. There are likely a lot of factors at play that would make that discipline difficult to implement in Chinese factories.

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Scallywag wrote:

rost333 wrote:
My answer to Barry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke

I started reading that and immediately thought "This sounds like that thing Toyota does" and then saw it mentioned further down. There are likely a lot of factors at play that would make that discipline difficult to implement in Chinese factories.

Yes, even U.S.A. manufacturing facilities had to learn that from Toyota. innocent

The Cycle of Goodness: “No one prospers without rendering benefit to others”
- The YKK Philosophy

1stein
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DavidEF wrote:

Scallywag wrote:

rost333 wrote:
My answer to Barry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke

I started reading that and immediately thought “This sounds like that thing Toyota does” and then saw it mentioned further down. There are likely a lot of factors at play that would make that discipline difficult to implement in Chinese factories.



Yes, even U.S.A. manufacturing facilities had to learn that from Toyota. innocent

However, The Japanese quality teacher was Edward Deming – American economist, who introduced SPC (statistics process control) in their factories. Before WW2 Japan was famous for it’s crapy quality.
So once The Chinese develop quality technics… World beware….

rost333
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1stein wrote:
Edward Deming – American economist, who introduced SPC (statistics process control)

Deming tried to implement it in US and was in big favour of performance review, but… Americans turned it into tool to measure individual performance and Deming was talking about process performance and continuous improvement.
Employee should be able to do ONLY what process requires and demands, nothing more nothing less. If something can be done better, cheaper or faster – the process should be changed.
This philosophy is too far from US individualism but pretty close to Chinese philosophy of collectivism.

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Hmm… Since the mention of sliders, why not get one of those infinitely variable sliders and 1 button. The button allows to switch between flood, spot or both. It’s totally foolproof

Words can be broken,
so can bones.

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Hmm. You haven’t met that many fools lately, have ya?

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Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poka-yoke

Good reference. Reminds me of the original Macintosh (128k) made in Fremont CA under a “zero defects” program ( long since abandoned, alas)

Quality Control is one thing
Quality Assurance is another.

Quote:
The difference is that QA is process oriented and QC is product oriented.

Testing, therefore is product oriented and thus is in the QC domain. Testing for quality isn’t assuring quality, it’s controlling it.

Quality Assurance makes sure you are doing the right things, the right way. Quality Control makes sure the results of what you’ve done are what you expected.

http://wiki.c2.com/?QualityAssuranceIsNotQualityControl
That page has some excellent comments and links that any manufacturer ought to be familiar with, and many need to adopt.

Most flashlight manufacturers seem to rely on the early adopters to check the product for defects that could have been caught in the design or assembly stage of production.

Alpha Test, Beta Test, Charlie Test (aka “Sorry, Charlie”)

1stein
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Resurrection of the Resurrection (of Duracell Durabeam)

Hey Rost333. Any update?
Abandoned or paused?

rost333
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1stein wrote:
Abandoned or paused?

Paused and awaiting the outcome of this project (as both full AA and 14500 support is the goal): Sofirn SP10S “BLF edition” with Andúril

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Good news.
Is your project scheduled to be run afterwards? Or you blend your project into SP10S (A)?

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