Major FW3A issue

LED Flashlights – General Info 18650 Flashlights
1

My FW3A arrived about a week ago. It was a fantastic light and worked perfectly until tonight. I turned it on to a fairly low setting, and immediately dropped it. Fall distance was about 3 feet onto a linoleum floor. As soon as it hit, it ramped up to what I can only guess is higher than the normal max. I picked it up and tried to turn it off, but the switch did nothing so I unscrewed the head of the light. Every time i reconnected the head, the light immediately ramped to max. I finally got it to stay off, and it appeared to work normally when I played with it. I put the light down and walked away. I came back into the room about 10 minutes later, and the light had turned itself on again to what looked like higher than max. I tied to grab it, but it burned the hell out of me as soon as I touched it (2nd degree) . I had to use pot holders to pick it up, and the switch would not turn it off. I dunked it in cold water until I could disconnect the head again. After it cooled down, I removed the head and optic and took a look. It appears that it got hot enough to partially melt two of the LEDs off of the board. One is fine, one flickers, and the third is completely dead.

So, I guess my question is how do I fix this, and how do I prevent this from happening again? I absolutely love the light, but if it can’t take a three foot fall without becoming really dangerous then it seems pretty useless.

2

Example. ramps to max, as soon as it lights up I’m trying to turn it off but the switch doesn’t work.

3

It has two tubes — one to carry power (ground) and one to carry a signal from the switch. The inner tube is for the switch. If that tube gets knocked out of position and makes contact with ground (power), it looks electrically identical to what happens when the user presses the button.

So it acts like the button is being held, and if it was off, it ramps up. Clicking the actual button has no effect, since it was already grounded and adding more ground doesn’t change anything.

The switch sensor shouldn’t be able to to short to ground, but it can in some circumstances, especially if parts aren’t as tight as they should be, or if parts are slightly out of alignment. It has been a recurring issue since the first prototype, and it was the reason why production was delayed for so long. Production didn’t start until Lumintop demonstrated the ability to make samples which didn’t have that issue. But unfortunately, even though the samples were fine, it still shows up sometimes in production units. :frowning:

After much argument and many attempts to fix or reduce it, it appears as if they’re simply not able to reliably make sure every FW3A is immune to this issue. Most are fine, especially after manually making sure the assembly is correct. But it still happens sometimes.

Since manufacturing apparently can’t solve it completely, I sent new firmware. It detects stuck-button situations and ramps back down to the lowest level, then if it remains stuck, it goes into lockout mode. It’s not great, but at least it prevents damage and makes it easier to pick the light up and take the head off.

If I understand correctly, the new firmware should be installed on every newly-produced item, but old ones won’t be updated since there’s no easy way to update them.

As for what to do about yours personally, probably all you can do is contact the store where you bought it and ask if there’s any way they can help.

4

This is the problem with lights like these which are packed with complex electronics.

5

It would be great if all complex lights were made in such a way that, if need be, their firmware could be reflashed. I wish, in this respect, there were more lights like the D4v2 that when they have unforseen saftey problems, could be fixed. Is it not always possible to design a light with the flashing pad in an easily accessible area like with the D4v2?

6

Thank you for the very detailed explanation, it sounds like that’s exactly what I have going on. I’ll look at the tube arrangement, but the light looks like its toast regardless as it got hot enough to kill the LEDs. I’ll take it up with the dealer after I return from vacation.

That said though, thank you for the time you’ve put in creating Anduril. It’s not perfect for every situation, but it’s pretty close for most. It’s incredibly user friendly, yet still allows you to control a huge variety of features. This was my first Anduril light, and in the week it worked I’ve become spoiled to the point I really dont want anything else.

7

I have no idea if this is a good place to ask this, but does one have to send a light back to Lumintop to have it repaired? I have two in different tints and one stopped working within a week or so. From my ham-fisted efforts at trying to trace the fault it would appear that neither the tail-cap nor the head work after trying each part on the one light that does still work. I have not dropped the light or abused it in any way at all - it simply refused to work after the first battery change.

8

You are using Flat Top cells in the one that’s not working—Right

My original group buy light works fine with button tops —- the other 3 I have will only work with flat tops

9

Only a matter of time until this flashlight hurts someone.

When you are dealing with a product that gets hot so fast (in seconds not minutes) that it can not be held by bare hands and will not respond to any button pushing and then to try and unscrew the tailcap or head fast enough to make it stop, something is seriously wrong with the design.

No way I would ever let anyone else operate this flashlight, it’s that scary.

I like it, but is dangerous.
Lawyers dream product.
Truth out.

10

I have two FW3As and one FW3T. Neither FW3A has had this issue, but the FW3T has now twice. I’ve “solved” it by rapping the side of the light near the tailswitch quite smartly on the wooden edge of my desk, and reinserting the battery. I hope it works for you.

11

There are similar lights with double battery tubes like the acebeam L30, what they did to avoid these issues is to machine a tightening ring for one end of the tube and an edge on the other side. Then the driver has a flexing copper ring that ensures contact.

But due to the way the FW3A is designed I don’t think there is much room for that, a much thicker tube and head are required. QC and tight tolerances is the only solution.

12

Yes. All my Liteflux LF3XT and LF5XT are similar constructed to the FW3A and still working fine!

Liteflux was really ahead of it’s time, and Lumintop seems not to be able to give a recent quality management to build such an excellent light.

I miss Liteflux!

13

Compared to the FW3A, Liteflux has a superior design.

In the FW3A, the inner tube and the outer tube are separated only by anodizing, which is extremely thin. Because there’s no leeway, If the light gets jostled (such as from being dropped), the inner and outer tubes might short. The light then thinks you’re holding the button down and ramps up to max and stays there.

It was a poor design to decision to rely only on anodizing to keep the 2 tubes electrically insulated. That one choice has resulted in many of the problems people experience with this light.

Liteflux also relies on an internal signal tube for switch connection. But instead of relying on thin anodizing, Liteflux added a second tube made of thin plastic. This plastic tube sits between the outer body and the inner signal tube, perfectly insulating the two and making it impossible for the inner tube to come out of position. The liteflux design is much superior to the Lumintop design.

It’s too bad Liteflux went out of business. Their lights were excellent. I still wish I’d purchased a titanium shell for one of my LF2XTs back when they were being produced by Steve Ku.

14

My FW3A behaved the same few months ago.
Later I found that the switchboard’s retaining ring scratched the board, causing a closed circuit (like pressing the button all the time).
It was a micro scratch that’s barely visible to my eyes.

My solution was to scratch entire purple part (and metal contact under the purple paint) outside of the circle.

Pic for illustration.

15

Huh? No! There is no plastic on the inside. Neither on LF2XT nor LF3XT or LF5XT.

Does anyone knows what he is doing?

16

Apparently my memory is not what it was.

I thought I recalled seeing a plastic tube separating the inner and outer tube. But I just took a look inside mine and saw only anodizing. Just like an FW3A. Except that the contact on the driver for the inner tube is a nice brass ring instead of just a trace on the bottom of the driver board.