Low cost Convoy S2+ any problems with this one?

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Mr.Shnatter
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Low cost Convoy S2+ any problems with this one?

I bought several Convoy S2s a while ago. I use 18650’s I get when I take apart the battery sticks they give out at trade shows for charging cell phones.

I’ve lost a couple of the convoys and want to get more.

Like the title of the website – BUDGET – I’m not looking to spend a lot. And don’t need fancy bells and whistles / latest firmware, etc.

Just want quality, brightest light I can get. (and I like the whiter / blue colors of LEDs).

The convoy S2 seems to fit that bill. I found this:

https://www.banggood.com/Convoy-S2-Aluminum-Alloy-2-7135×8-LED-Flashlight-p-954829.html?rmmds=search&ID=510345&cur_warehouse=CN

Do you think I should have any concerns on the legitimacy of them? Is this <$12 price the best I’ll be able to get a Convoy for?

Thank you very much and stay safe! It’s a heck of a time these days!

Mr.Shnatter
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Although I just saw this? 2300 lumens? it doesn’t say how many 7135s are in there. You need 8 if you want 1000 lumens. Another thing is I don’t use the flashlight much, bue when I do, I need / want the high power lots of light.

This seems better for that? am I missing something?

https://www.banggood.com/Convoy-S21A-2300-Lumens-Flashlight-Copper-DTP-Board-18650-Battery-4-Modes-Torch-Light-Camping-Hunting-Emergency-Lamp-p-1523879.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN

Johm
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Hi Mr.Shnatter,

You shouldn’t have any concerns regarding the legitimacy of this item, minus delivery timeframe.

You can frequently get the basic (cool white) Convoy S2+ for $9.99 with the right code or at the right flash sale.

Johm
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The Convoy S21A is a slightly larger light (shame shape) that takes 21700 batteries (also 18650 with adapter).

It uses a different kind of driver, no 7135s.

Keep in mind that a flashlight this size can only maintain 500-600 lumens for more than a few minutes due to heat generated.
Modes above that should be considered/used for short bursts.

Mr.Shnatter
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Thanks!

What site sells it that low a price?! Just have to keep watching the website?

And it needs an adapter for 18650? I didn’t see that. Is that a tube or something for the diameter? or for the length? Could I wra electircal tape around a n 18650 instead?

Barkuti
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Mr.Shnatter, your above link doesn't works because the usually default simple post editor cannot auto-parse links which use characters outside the ASCII set. If you want your links to work 100% of the time you need to use the Insert Link button (I always do):

https://www.banggood.com/Convoy-S2-Aluminum-Alloy-2-7135×8-LED-Flashlight-p-954829.html

Johm wrote:

Keep in mind that a flashlight this size can only maintain 500-600 lumens for more than a few minutes due to heat generated.

Technically it can, or very close. That level of output can be sustainably achieved with 1.75 - 2.1 A, and while the torch can get a little bit hot at that current and power level it's not critical, and suffice to say when you carry it in your hand you cool the flashlight. I've used an S2+ at 1.5 A with a head strap holder for jogging with less than 0 problems.

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Barkuti
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The S21A is sold for a fair price at Simon's store in AliExpress. It's not that cheap, but you can get a small discount (15%) if you request it by messaging Simon after the order is placed. You must tell him your BLF username when requesting the discount.

For this to work you need to use the AliExpress app or the mobile site because you need to select other payment methods when proceeding to pay (there's a glitch with the desktop site and that option isn't shown). So first add whatever you want to buy from his store to the cart (don't hit buy it now!), then proceed to order and select other payment methods as payment method. When you are presented with the payment page draw back and don't pay, this submits the order. After this go to the order list, click/tap on Contact Seller and message Simon, he will then adjust the order price and after this you can pay.

P.S.: the S21A 2300 lumens? No way. It uses a driver which delivers close to 6 A, and puts out a little bit above 1600 - 1750 lumens on high. Check Terry Oregon's Convoy S21A (Short Technical Review).

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ggf31416
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In theory (I don’t have one) the S21A supports 18650 too per AliExpress listing, the S21A has springs on both sides. There is a 5mm length difference between the 21700 and the 18650, so I’m not sure if flat top 18650 will work well, but longer protected 18650s capable of 6A should work for sure. If the springs are not enough you can always use a small magnet to increase the length.

The SST40 versions will step down from 6A to a more sustainable level around the mid mode when the driver temperature reaches 55°C. In that aspect they are better than the 7135 versions as they can’t overheat too much.

If you buy from Convoy’s AliExpress store the price is higher than the Banggood deal but for the 18650 version you can now request the new SST40 Biscotti driver.

Barkuti
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Yes the S21A bla bla bla 21700, but to be honest if you don't have 21700 cells there's little point. I recently ordered an S21A host just because I had a ∅20 mm boost driver lying around waiting to be used, plus a couple inexpensive Lishen 21700 cells (“funny” to see how the price for them is now inflated, I paid €5.32 for two cells two weeks ago). Also, not all chargers can handle the extra lenght of 21700s; a Lii-500 is barely able if you can stand slight dents in your cells, but I'll file the contacts in my Lii-202.

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ggf31416
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The S21A is only being considered because there is a flashdeal at Banggood making it cheaper than the 18650 version.

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$13.99 at Banggood isn't that good when you factor the 15% discount Simon can make you, and bear in mind his price includes tracked shipping. But well, you can get it cheaper there right now.

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whatsthepoint
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I don't like Convoy S2+ with soldered to the pill drivers.

The S2+ that I would recommend if you don't want to build your own using an S2+ host is the SST40 version with the 5A driver.

I got one from BG a few months ago for $13.99

https://www.banggood.com/Gray-Convoy-S2-SST40-1800lm-5000K-6500K-Temperature-Protection-Management-18650-Flashlight-p-1546416.html?rmmds=search&ID=513529&cur_warehouse=USA

From China is often cheapest with discount codes that are available from Fin17

Check price on AE Convoy Store

Here's the pluses:

SST40 LED

DTP copper MCPCB

Bypassed springs

Smooth reflector(slightly better throw than OP)

Up to 1800lm

Uses 18650

Has driver retaining ring(driver not soldered in)

Here's the minuses:

Only one body color offered(blue_gray)

 

If you'd prefer to use a 21700 battery then the S21A with SST40 and 6A driver is a very good choice.

 

 

never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

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I second what whatsthepoint said, except that I prefer orange peel reflectors unless I'm all about throw.

Not even the S21A reachs 1800 lumens with the (nearly) 6 A driver, thus I really doubt the S2+ does that. It will be more like a bit less than 1600 lumens at startup and probably ≈1450 at 30 seconds. This is just guesswork according to the figures measured by Terry Oregon for the S21A and the SST-40 output test made by djozz. This still is bright for a cigar style torch.

Concerning the SST40 S2+ currently available only in classic gray, well, I am pretty sure that if you follow the procedure I described earlier to claim a discount, you could also ask Simon to build your S2+ in a different color; he should then adjust the price depending on what you request. If in doubt there's an official Convoy thread here which Simon looks at often, or you can message him.

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Lexel
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problem with BG is
1. only CW
2. customer support

justanotherguy
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S21A, only comes in SST40 flavors…?

Lexel
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justanotherguy wrote:
S21A, only comes in SST40 flavors…?

Convoy Lists only 5000 and 6500K SST-40

XPL would make no sense as its topping out over 4.2V so there is not much overhead for the driver to regulate
XHP50.2 3V would not live up to its potential at only 6A

Mr.Shnatter
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What’s that movie quote – just when I thought I was out – they pull me back in?!

I started this saying I was just looking for a good price for a convoy s2 / S2+ to use with these free 18650s I get from trade shows when they give away battery banks

https://www.4imprint.com/product/128424/Cell-Phone-Power-Bank

(did I do that link right?! : )

But hearing all this talk whets my OCD for understanding all this stuff : )

So people talk of ‘simon’ and his store. He ‘makes’ the convoys? At first I thought he’s manufacturing the tubes / threads, etc / he is ‘convoy’? and the others selling are buying in bulk from him? But it just dawned on me – he’s buying the hosts and parts and putting things together like other sellers? Convoy is another company that does the machining / anodizing? Dealing with Simon, he makes them consistent from unit to unit and can deal with the custom things – biscotti vs. (what’s the first firmware called?) vs. the next firmware beginning with letter C?

I am down to 1 S2 and 1 S2+ now. I really can’t tell the difference in the lights other than the exterior contours and the color of the light (that I know is dependent on the LED choice (personallly, I like the whited / bluest light for the flashlights. But like sounds, I don’t like the low bass sounds. I don’t like low temp light too. I thought I read that the circle of light is wider on 1 than the other? Or more evenly lit across the ciircle of light. I don’t see that in the ones I have.

But anyway, is it simon that has the $10 pricing? How often does that come up? Whats the best way to know when the sale is? Here in a certain thread? Which website to watch?

Oh, and for the S21A, this has a graph showing 1600lumens for only a minute or 2?! THen less than 1,000? I’ll stick with the S2 / S2+ for a more stable light level?

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67612

Thanks to everyone! Stay safe!

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That is a lot of questions Mr.Shnatter, this is what I have to say for now:

Simon Mao is the chief fellow at Convoy. For further details concerning his commercial relationship with 3rd parties, you can ask him.

S2 and S2+ are slightly different flashlights. The S2 is a less popular model as far as I know. Sold in gray and black, it has a shorter pill and a deeper reflector, this means it should be more throwy. But I can't make a direct comparison, so take this with a grain of salt (wait for others' reports).

If you buy from the Convoy flashlight store in AliExpress, you will be dealing with him directly. You won't straight find the best prices there, but as I say above you can get a discount.

If you are looking for sales of Convoy flashlights, you will have a better chance taking a look at 3rd party sellers. Here is a link to the current last page (#74) of the official Convoy thread, just in case you want to ask something there.

 

 

The above behaviour is caused by the (SST40) driver's temperature control feature. If you get an S2+ with such driver, it will behave exactly like that, if only it will step down a little bit lower due to the overall lesser mass and size of an S2+ versus an S21A.

You like “cool white”? Well, that's Wink noobie. And while I can enjoy pretty much all CCTs, I prefer to stay in the lower CCT kelvin range. It is best suited for night time, “warm whites” allow you to adapt to night vision conditions much better, and overall look better anyway imho

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Lexel
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Choose yourself which tint you like, all around 5000-5700K
one is 4000K on lower left side

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BTW, it seems warmer tints attract fewer insects if you use it outside. Enjoy whatever light you buy!

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Lexel wrote:

Choose yourself which tint you like, all around 5000-5700K
one is 4000K on lower left side

A couple points in this regard:

Tint and CCT are different things. Quoting wikipedia in color temperature, “The color temperature of a light source is the temperature of an ideal black-body radiator that radiates light of a color comparable to that of the light source. … In practice, color temperature is meaningful only for light sources that do in fact correspond somewhat closely to the radiation of some black body, …” whereas tint usually defines a specific area in a chromaticity chart where the led belongs to. Cree uses the following chart, other manufacturers use more or less similar ones but with different identifiers:

 

Source: https://flashlightwiki.com/Cree

 

Another very important thing to remark is that a photograph cannot really capture how a light source looks to our eyes and minds, and that the white balance used in a photo has a tremendous impact on how it looks. If you, for example, use an “incandescent” white balance with a neutral or “cool white” light source the taken picture will certainly look bluish, while with a “warm white” led it will look right.

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Lexel
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Barkuti]<p>[quote=Lexel wrote:

Another very important thing to remark is that a photograph cannot really capture how a light source looks to our eyes and minds, and that the white balance used in a photo has a tremendous impact on how it looks. If you, for example, use an “incandescent” white balance with a neutral or “cool white” light source the taken picture will certainly look bluish, while with a “warm white” led it will look right.

You are wrong as I have photographed in Raw and then used Photoshop to set the CCT to the LED temp and set color shift to 0
In combination with a good IPS display or even like I have calibrated display the image tells totally the truth about tints and with CCT from photo and LED matching also about the lights color

What a picture on a white surface can not tell is CRI

Barkuti
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Lexel wrote:
Barkuti wrote:

Another very important thing to remark is that a photograph cannot really capture how a light source looks to our eyes and minds, and that the white balance used in a photo has a tremendous impact on how it looks. …

You are wrong as I have photographed in Raw and then used Photoshop to set the CCT to the LED temp and set color shift to 0
In combination with a good IPS display or even like I have calibrated display the image tells totally the truth about tints and with CCT from photo and LED matching also about the lights color

What a picture on a white surface can not tell is CRI

My above quote “Another very important thing to remark is that a photograph cannot really capture how a light source looks to our eyes and minds, and that the white balance used in a photo has a tremendous impact on how it looks” is just right in itself.

You photograph in RAW and use whatever tools to achieve maximum faithfulness in your pictures, great. Still, it's a picture and far from what you can directly perceive with your senses. And we all use different displays with different calibration.

 

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