[Closed] Sofirn C01S with Nichia E21A 98CRI R9050/9080

250 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

Lux-Perpetua
Lux-Perpetua's picture
Offline
Last seen: 43 min 49 sec ago
Joined: 03/01/2018 - 04:39
Posts: 2466
Location: Germany, 德国, ドイツ, Германия, जर्मनी
[Closed] Sofirn C01S with Nichia E21A 98CRI R9050/9080

Hello everyone,

Update: 10/09/2020

I'm sorry to tell you that Sofirn will probably no longer pursue the development of this model. I have talked to Barry today. Sofirn still has difficulties sourcing Nichia E21A emitters from their supplier(s). Eventually, they will focus on other flashlight projects. Therefore, I see no chance but to suspend this project.

------------

I talked to Barry (Sofirn) about the idea of selling their popular C01S model with Nichia's E21A emitter (2.000K - 5.000K 98CRI). This LED arouses quite some interest here on BLF and TLF, so I thought "let's give it a try" and have another special BLF edition. Some first investigation on his side revealed that they would be able to get this LED albeit to a higher price and longer lead time than usual LEDs like the ones from Cree or Luminus. I would like to welcome everyone to chime in and help me to gather all information what we need to take care of (driver specs, optics, most wanted tints, flux and chromatic bins, etc.).

I think it's best to start discussing viable options first before collecting the actual interest/demand in this light.

 

My initial ideas:

  • Host will be C01S or C01 (although C01 may not fit for using 5mm LEDs)
  • Body color irrelevant for now (black should work well but maybe bare aluminum would be highly appreciated)
  • Driver-wise Sofirn's C01R driver might be a good option for using low-voltage LEDs but I don't know how sensitive E21A is - maybe C01S's driver would push E21A too hard?
  • Optic: C01S or C01 optic or mule design with glass lens
  • UI: The new 3-mode & 2-modegroup UI of C01R
  • Tints: I could imagine two or three tint options (2.000K "incandescant light", 3.500K and 5.000K) but I am open for any other ideas

 

Following tints have come into close consideration  

2.000K
NVSLE21AT SM203-D160-L2-R9050

3.500K

NVSLE21AT SM353-D220-M1-R9080

4.500K

NVSLE21AT SM453-D220-L2-R9080

 

The poll to assess the requested tints can be found here:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/73660

 

Disclaimer:

Since this plan may eventually lead into an actual sales/groupbuy thread, I have decided to put this in the commercial sellers / BLF user negotiated deals subforum.

 

Interest list:

BLF member Total Quantity 2.000K 3.500K 4.500K Else CCT
Lux-Perpetua 4 2   2  
oweban 3 1 1 1  
MAX-MX 2  1 1    
lightdecay 2 1   1  
TMaxxJJ 3 1 1 1  
lazerEagle 1        
id30209 2   1  1  
hodor 4 1 1 1 1
Agro 1        
Unheard 3 1 1 1  
Muto 3        
mbp 2   1 1  
Tater Tot 3  1   2  
skinny_tie 1        
mitsuki08 2  1 1    
derfyled 1        
staticx57 4  1  1 1 1
jonxxn 1        
Geoduck 3 2 1    
Grigio 3 1 1 1  
BurningPlayd0h 2 1   1  
flightless22 6 2  2 2  
OtisCampbell 2        
Rat_Racer 1        
2Ace 1        
sochi111 1        
Th558 1     1  
virencelights 1        
cetary 1 1      
asdqqq 1     1  
Geuzzz 1 1      
SilverHazeFlash 1     1  
anonymous_user 1     1  
nastynate 1 1      
Phlogiston 1     1  
Unloco 1        
matik42 3 2   1  
adam7027 3 1 1 1  
dk21291 6 2 2 1 1
timbo114 1     1  
SammysHP 1        
Anthony Nguyenn 1     1  
Alen 1 1      
808Hi 1        
jojosupir 1   1    
Noctiluco 1   1    
alex64 2      2  
Sari33 1 1      
rost333 4    1 3  
shirnask 4 1 3    
Poguche 1   1    
korpzgrinda 1 1      
ch1ir 1        
Light-saber 1     1  
OldSkol 1     1  
Tally-ho 4 1 1 1 1
ludolf 3 1 1 1  
GDF 1        
puglife2 1   1    
Funzel67 3 1 1 1  
Nooner 1 1      
gregor 1      1  
Discharger 4 3    1  
lotrbfme 3 1 1 1  
Nagonka 2     2  
Bastarrdo 2   1 1  
wapd2 1        
rhemz 1 1      
b4d17 1        
DrDevil 1 1      
KalmJ 3 1 1 1  
bigm 6  2 2 2  
GERFlash 4        
Drift Monkey 2 1   1  
TimMc 2   1 1  
richnpc 1     1  
Helios azimuth 3 1  1 1  
LightintheNight (TLF) 1        
lightboks (TLF) 3 1 1 1  
Flaschenlampe (TLF) 3 1 1 1  
Kosta(s) (TLF) 3 1 1 1  
Kabukimann (TLF) 1   1    
bidas 1     1  
Slim Pickens 4 1 2 1  
Coscar 1   1    
Midnite 1   1    
WES-7 1     1  
TheTechnical 1     1  
slmjim 1 1      
Quillz 3 1  1 1  
MoreLumens 2 1 1    
Toglud 3 1  1 1  
Tendou 1   1    
gixxxer  3 1 1 1  
d_t_a  3 1 1  1  
harry218 1   1    
drewski 2   1 1  
nibble 1 1      
light-emitting-... 1 1      
Di_Joker 1 1      
netprince 3 1 1 1  
Sean Ingram 3 1 1 1  
nobody 4 1 2 1  
khaleeqnizamani 2 2      
Forever 3 1 1 1  
Talkrabb 1     1  
snoopstah 1 1      
Starkm32 3  1 1  1  
Gunga 2  1  1    
Dachfalter (TLF) 2 1   1  
Liquidity (TLF) 3 1 1 1  
the_holodoc 1     1  
ibeQuint 3 1  1 1  
whatthewillus 2 1   1  
lazerEagle 2 1 1    
P33 2   1 1  
gottawearshades 2   1 1  
zaxar0580 2 1   1  
zipelgas 2 1 1    
Naito 1   1    
Chronovore 2 1 1    
Streamtronics 1 1      
nightwalker 2 1   1  
led_400 3 1 1 1  
ReManG 3   3    
theperpetualscout 1        
Thro 1     1  
patmurris 2 1   1  
Perception 2     2  
Maverick1947 2 1   1  
SwissFlashy 3  1    2  
Vbryanv 2 1 1    
lukehale 6     6  
Flummi (TLF) 2 1 1    
Ramspopo (TLF) 2   1 1  
cyropro 2 1 1    
Sillen 2 1   1  
man of light 2 1 1    
SamuelTheShark 2 1 1    
Boaz 2   1 1  
           
           

Total amount

(as of 09/13/2020)

280 77 67 84 4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by: Lux-Perpetua on 10/09/2020 - 09:53
oweban
oweban's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 48 min ago
Joined: 02/12/2019 - 06:34
Posts: 1188
Location: Sydney AU

If the 5000K option were 4500K I’d be all over all three…

MAX-MX
MAX-MX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 17 hours ago
Joined: 01/16/2019 - 03:49
Posts: 32
Location: Ukraine

I will observe with interest, I hope the project will be implemented. With pleasure I would buy at 3500K.

lightdecay
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 06/17/2019 - 08:55
Posts: 327
Location: U.S.A.

Interested.

TMaxxJJ
Offline
Last seen: 31 min 56 sec ago
Joined: 02/01/2018 - 03:18
Posts: 199
Location: England

Definitely interested. Probably in one of each tint.

Agro
Agro's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 19 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2017 - 11:16
Posts: 6251
Location: Ślōnsk

I would be interested but only if the driver supported 10440.

lazerEagle
lazerEagle's picture
Offline
Last seen: 46 min 11 sec ago
Joined: 05/20/2020 - 21:11
Posts: 146
Location: Australia

interested

- the best way to predict the future is to create it -

MascaratumB
MascaratumB's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 41 min ago
Joined: 10/29/2016 - 12:12
Posts: 5603
Location: Portugal

Subscribed to check the developments Wink
Thanks for the initiative Thumbs Up

[REVIEWS] ACEBEAM: H20 / TK16 // AMUTORCH: S3 / S3 vs 219c / AM30 / AX1 / VG10 // BLITZWOLF: BW-ET1 // BRINYTE: T28 / PT18pro / PT28 // DQG: AA Slim Ti // FIREFLIES: ROT66 GEN II // HC-LIGHTS: SS AAA // KLARUS: XT1C // LIVARNOLUX: 314791 // LUMINTOP: Tool AA V2.0 + Tool 25 // NITEFOX: UT20 / ES10K / K3 // ODEPRO: KL52 / B108 // OLIGHT: M2R Warrior / OW Mini // ON THE ROAD: M1 / i3 / M3 Pro / 311 / Z821 / i5 // ROVYVON: A2 + A5R / E300S / A8 / A23 / E200u // SKILHUNT: M150 / M200 // SOFIRN: SF14 + SP10A / SP32A / SP10B // WUBEN: TO10R / E05 / T70 / E10 / TO50R / E19 / E12R / E61 // XTAR: PB2 Charger // Mods: 1 / 2 // TIR: 1 / 2 // Others: Biscotti 3 + 1*7135 / Triple TIR w/ XP-G2 /// My Collection /// My Review’s Blog (PT) /// OL Contest 2019 /// GIVEAWAY: 1 / 2

Lux-Perpetua
Lux-Perpetua's picture
Offline
Last seen: 43 min 49 sec ago
Joined: 03/01/2018 - 04:39
Posts: 2466
Location: Germany, 德国, ドイツ, Германия, जर्मनी

Agro wrote:
I would be interested but only if the driver supported 10440.

If we all agree on 10440 this would mean to develop a whole new boost driver, consequently an even higher sales price to cover development costs. Moreover, I'm worried that multichemistry support (1.2/1.5V and 3.7V) will be quite a challenge with such a small driver. Are there any big advantages to expect when driven with a lithium-ion battery? 10440s are much more difficult to source as well as quite expensive. Charging these little suckers in a standard li-ion charger can also become a challenge.

id30209
id30209's picture
Online
Last seen: 13 min 27 sec ago
Joined: 05/17/2018 - 12:20
Posts: 1406
Location: Croatia

Big IN

WTB Titanium 4sevens 2xAA tube

hodor
hodor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 41 min ago
Joined: 07/11/2018 - 03:58
Posts: 919
Location: UK

Definitely interested if 3 (or 4) mode with sub-lumen and decent mode spacing. Only really interested in NiMH, not bothered if it supports 10440. I’m ok with the suggested tints, however I wonder how popular the 2000K option would be (is 2700K more popular?). If the options were 3500K, 4500K, 5700K I would probably buy one of each.

In case they’re thinking of different hosts, I’d be very interested if they made a small twisty AA, seems to be a big gap in the market (unless I’m missing something).

Edit: IIRC the max safe amps for E17A is 1A and E21A is 2A (although I could be wrong, will find the post)

Edit2: found it H04RC group buy

Jerommel wrote:
…The E21 has an XP-G / 219C size die, and the E17 has half the mm² surface area die of the E21, so E17 is comparable with XP-E die size.

The E21 can safely handle max. 2 Amperes and the E17 can safely handle max. 1 Ampere.

So a quad of E21 can handle 8 Amperes and a quad of E17 can handle 4 Amperes. …

Agro
Agro's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 19 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2017 - 11:16
Posts: 6251
Location: Ślōnsk

Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Agro wrote:
I would be interested but only if the driver supported 10440.

If we all agree on 10440 this would mean to develop a whole new boost driver, consequently an even higher sales price to cover development costs. Moreover, I’m worried that multichemistry support (1.2/1.5V and 3.7V) will be quite a challenge with such a small driver. Are there any big advantages to expect when driven with a lithium-ion battery? 10440s are much more difficult to source as well as quite expensive. Charging these little suckers in a standard li-ion charger can also become a challenge.


Nearly every AAA driver can work with 10440, this is not a challenge but often an unintended feature.
Even the regular C01S one…sometimes: some users reported that it worked, some burnt theirs.
I suppose it needs some minor tweaks, that’s all required to turn this light from nice but dim to a small hotrod.
Thermal design is fine and IMHO it’s a shame that such omission limited the light’s performance so much. Sad

Dim lights are not my kind of stuff, regardless of how good the beam is, that’s why I requested this feature.

hodor
hodor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 41 min ago
Joined: 07/11/2018 - 03:58
Posts: 919
Location: UK

Nice but dim is my type LOL

Lux-Perpetua
Lux-Perpetua's picture
Offline
Last seen: 43 min 49 sec ago
Joined: 03/01/2018 - 04:39
Posts: 2466
Location: Germany, 德国, ドイツ, Германия, जर्मनी

Agro wrote:
[Nearly every AAA driver can work with 10440, this is not a challenge but often an unintended feature. Even the regular C01S one...sometimes: some users reported that it worked, some burnt theirs. I suppose it needs some minor tweaks, that's all required to turn this light from nice but dim to a small hotrod. Thermal design is fine and IMHO it's a shame that such omission limited the light's performance so much. :(

Okay, if it's that easy what tweaks are we talking about here? How can a manufacturer make sure that the E21A emitter will not get toasted if someone puts in a brandnew Efest 10440? IIRC, the reason why some C01S did not burn was because they used some low drain and/or partly discharged 10440s. Please don't feel offended by my questions but it would be a complete nightmare for a manufacturer to face returns of defective lights in large scale.

Ryzbor
Ryzbor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 26 min ago
Joined: 01/21/2018 - 10:52
Posts: 354
Location: Poland
oweban wrote:
If the 5000K option were 4500K I’d be all over all three…

5000K E21A D240 will have a green tint, 4500K E21A d220 will have a nice rosy tint. Choose wisely.

virence.com Nichia E21A sw30+sw40 Wizard Pro ; Skilhunt H03 XP-E2 660nm Photo Red ; Wizard Pro E21A 2000K ; S2+ E21A sw40 d220 (for sale)

 

oweban
oweban's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 48 min ago
Joined: 02/12/2019 - 06:34
Posts: 1188
Location: Sydney AU

As in, if there were 1800K, 3500K, and 4500K I’d want those three Smile

Unheard
Unheard's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 18 min ago
Joined: 01/16/2019 - 11:38
Posts: 1281
Location: Germany

I’m in of course. Guess the LED works fine with that driver. 1800K would be very nice, but also too special for mass market. And we know Sofirn has problems sourcing Nichias. More likely they would consider NW tints.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

Muto
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 29 min ago
Joined: 09/04/2012 - 16:42
Posts: 2461
Location: Southeast, PA

Down for 3, prefer bare aluminum or olive

“History doesn’t repeat itself, but it sometimes rhymes,” Mark Twain

After the Apocalypse there will be only 2 things left alive, Cockroaches and Keith Richards

“You’ll develop like a herd mentality,”
“It’s gonna be herd-developed and that’s gonna happen.”

Yep it already happened

Agro
Agro's picture
Online
Last seen: 1 min 19 sec ago
Joined: 05/14/2017 - 11:16
Posts: 6251
Location: Ślōnsk

Lux-Perpetua wrote:

Agro wrote:
[Nearly every AAA driver can work with 10440, this is not a challenge but often an unintended feature. Even the regular C01S one…sometimes: some users reported that it worked, some burnt theirs. I suppose it needs some minor tweaks, that’s all required to turn this light from nice but dim to a small hotrod. Thermal design is fine and IMHO it’s a shame that such omission limited the light’s performance so much. Sad

Okay, if it’s that easy what tweaks are we talking about here?


I don’t know. That’s why I wrote this as a supposition rather than a statement of a fact.
Lux-Perpetua wrote:
How can a manufacturer make sure that the E21A emitter will not get toasted if someone puts in a brandnew Efest 10440? IIRC, the reason why some C01S did not burn was because they used some low drain and/or partly discharged 10440s. Please don’t feel offended by my questions but it would be a complete nightmare for a manufacturer to face returns of defective lights in large scale.

If a LED burns you have a dead light.
If a driver burns you have a dead light.

I don’t see how improving the driver would make the matter any worse, let alone turn it into nightmare.

Now to the also important question, can E21A survive a fully charged, high drain cell? I’m not sure but quick calculations show me that it can’t. Which is a bummer indeed.
I guess few people will care about 10440 support then. Though I still do; even if I kill E21A, a good driver enables me to put some other LED in there. Like SST-20. And I would still have as bright as I’d like.

BTW, there’s one thing to take into consideration when converting a light from SST-20 to E21A. The latter is very flat and may easily have the light emitting surface well below the focal point of the optics.

mbp
Offline
Last seen: 5 hours 6 min ago
Joined: 04/01/2019 - 11:00
Posts: 224
Location: Baltimore, MD

Would definitely be in for at least one, probably two 3500k and 4500k.

samyy
Offline
Last seen: 9 hours 5 min ago
Joined: 02/19/2018 - 14:06
Posts: 102
Location: PlanetEarth

I like the C01S concept, but Im not a fan of the AAAs. So here is my idea: install the C01S driver (maybe with slight improvements) in the bigger body and make the “C10S” – twisty AA light, as small as possible, something in style of DQG Tiny AA or L3 L10…No need of 14500 support, AAs with their higher capacity(comparing with AAAs) would be good enough…

Tater Tot
Offline
Last seen: 18 hours 28 min ago
Joined: 11/11/2019 - 23:51
Posts: 43

Interested.

3500k and 4500k would be nice.

The tint should be at or below the BBL, ideally without too much tint shift even with optics.

3-mode UI is good and I personally don’t care for 10440 support.

skinny_tie
skinny_tie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 hours 13 min ago
Joined: 09/23/2017 - 03:14
Posts: 445
Location: Australia

I’m definitely interested in the lower temperatures, but not the 5000K – if the highest temperature was around 4000K I would probably get that too.

I’m happy with the C01R UI and NiMH support. I’m not interested in 10440 Li-ion support – I wouldn’t mind if it was an option but I wouldn’t want it to compromise NiMH support.

hodor
hodor's picture
Offline
Last seen: 8 hours 41 min ago
Joined: 07/11/2018 - 03:58
Posts: 919
Location: UK
samyy wrote:
…twisty AA light, as small as possible, something in style of DQG Tiny AA or L3 L10…

L3 L10 size and style would be perfect Love

mitsuki08
Offline
Last seen: 1 day 4 hours ago
Joined: 03/08/2019 - 05:36
Posts: 239

Interested. preferably 4500k below.

derfyled
derfyled's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 weeks 5 days ago
Joined: 04/16/2013 - 07:51
Posts: 230
Location: Canada

Interested in a 3500-4500k

staticx57
Offline
Last seen: 10 hours 59 min ago
Joined: 04/11/2016 - 00:43
Posts: 704
Location: New Jersey, United States

interested

jonxxn
jonxxn's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 hours 12 min ago
Joined: 11/18/2015 - 06:34
Posts: 62
Location: +0800

Definitely interested

Geoduck
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 11 min ago
Joined: 10/27/2018 - 21:51
Posts: 44
Location: The other Washington

interested in at least two at 2700-3500k

Grigio
Grigio's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 days 56 min ago
Joined: 06/12/2019 - 12:14
Posts: 129
Location: Chiang Mai, Thailand
Also interested in one of each tint.
BurningPlayd0h
BurningPlayd0h's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 7 min ago
Joined: 06/22/2018 - 02:16
Posts: 1503
Location: MN

Interested if available in 4500K D220 and/or 3000K or below, would definitely pick up both. Don’t care about 10440 support, especially if the driver doesn’t have any stepdowns like the C01S.

A bit more textured/floodier optic vs the C01S is absolutely necessary though. E21A has tint shift through the beam in narrow, untextured TIRs.

Pages