Looking for pocket-sized 1000LM to 1600LM zoom

LED Flashlights – General Info
1

I'm rather new to CREE flashlights. About 6 months ago, I was at a local hardware store and saw a Redline 200LM Zoom at the checkout counter and was impressed enough with it that I bought it. I have always tried to have the best flashlights - my most recent, before the Redline, being a huge football-sized HID flashlight. That 200LM Redline, though not as bright, made up for the lack of brightness, in size. I kept telling myself that I was going to go out on the net and do some research and see what else was available, but just never got around to it.

However, my wife is traveling for a while and I gave her the Redline flashlight, to take with her. I never really realized how much I used it. This inspired me to start doing some research and I ended up here.

FYI, my background is EE.

I'm now looking for a small (pocket-sized, like the Redline), single CREE, zoomable, 1-Li-Ion or 3-AAA, in the 1000 to 1600 LM range. If I get a Li-Ion light, I will need to get a charger, too. I would prefer to get a light that will give me the option of using either Li-Ion or AAA batteries. Having the option of AAA batteries means that regardless of where I am, I will always be able to get batteries if I run out of rechargeable batteries.

I found a supplier that provides a Trustfire Z3 (requires 1 18650 or 3 AAA), with two 18650 3000mAh batteries included, a dual charger with both AC and auto adapters, and an adapter to allows the use of 3 AAA batteries, for emergencies. I have seen the Z3 elsewhere, but not with the variety of accessories.

So now, I'm here to research the TF-Z3, to see if there is anything better and to see if anyone here is familiar with the Chinese distributor. Most of the Z3s on the net are around $33, but the one with all the accessories is about $37. A few of the $33 versions are available from US suppliers, while the $37 version is from a supplier in China, via eBay. The fact that several US suppliers have chosen to sell the Z3 is one of the reasons why I think it might be a worthwhile product.

Maybe there's something better, for my stated needs. Maybe not. That's why I'm here... to find out.

Here is the link to the Z3 that I'm considering:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zoom-In-Out-1000-LM-CREE-XM-L-T6-LED-Aluminum-Flashlight-Torch-2x18650-Charger-/120785628894

I'm also here to find out if I can get such a complete package from a US distributor for anywhere close to the same price.

FYI, throw at max zoom is more important than flood, to me. Battery life is only moderately important, since I can carry extra batteries. Besides, I tend to only use the light for a few minutes at a time (usually less than 20 min). Blinky and SOS are not terribly important to me, though blinky is a good security feature, in the event of facing a burglar or assailant who has a gun. A strobe in the eyes will disorient the perp more than a steady bright beam, and still allow me to see where to aim.

I welcome any suggestions. Better pocket-sized light? Better (US) supplier? Better price?

Thanks,
John

2

An EE in Texas? No . . .

I think you'll have a hard time finding a zooming light with more than 800 OTF lumens. I don't believe I've seen any zooming flashlights with more than 1 emitter(don't see how it would work very well). However, if you do find one, please let us know.

3

I find the pocketable requirement way too hard.

4

Budgeteer,

Thanks for the response.

How about this seller? They don't offer such a complete package, but it is the same model of flashlight, from a USA seller?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TrustFire-Z3-CREE-XM-L-T6-LED-1000lm-Lumen-Focus-Zoom-Flashlight-2x-18650-Set-/180796781335

Ideas? Opinions?

This is a new market for me.

Thanks,
John

5

How about that zoomable Yezl from here: http://www.cnqualitygoods.com/goods.php?id=1107

edit:

agreed on that 800lumen. I would say 800lm absolute tops, since XM-L has so wide angled beam, it will lose some of it´s guts inside the head + losses from plastic lens...

6

do some searching; this

has a decent summary from various people -- and a pointer back to budgetlights for various reviews you can find here.

7

You mention that throw is important and your current light Redline I would imagine is using a XR-E which will will throw further than what you are now looking for with the XM-L.
I wouldn’t count on a strobing light to both a burglar with a gun. Maybe a slow beacon is useful if your car breaks down and your car lights no flash for some reason.
Most people try to avoid lights with strobe for the most part unless it’s hidden or they use it on a bicycle.
You might consider describing in a bit more detail how you intend to use this light unless you know you are totally set on getting a XM-L zoomable light.
Pocketable is also likely to not allow the output that you are mentioning due to heatsinking issues.

8

For good throw at max zoom, check this:

http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/small-sun-zyc10s-cree-q5-3mode-zooming-glass-optics-led-flashlight-black-18650-p-8459

It's well regarded by the members of this forum who own it (me included). Not very small, but still pocketable, and size matters when we are talking about a zoomer's lens. Smile 18650 only, though.

A smaller 18650/3xAAA, that I have as well, simply can't compare in output.

Edit: I'd rather keep a spare 18650 or two in the car than rely on the wide availability of AAA's.

9

gcbryan,

Can you provide a list of the various LEDs, according to raw LED output (manufacturer rating, not OTF). I was under the impression (apparently incorrectly, it would now seem) that the T6 is brighter than the Q5. Am I wrong?

That's why I came to this forum. I'm trying to learn as much as possible from those who have used these lights, in a short time. I have looked all over and can't find a table that shows the output lumens of the actual LEDs or that even ranks the LEDs according to brightness. Every time I think that I know which is which, something comes up that makes me realize that I'm wrong.

In my initial browsing of this forum, I realize that some of the people who post here are even more geeky that me, which is saying a lot. I'm eager to learn and I am a geek (EE), so as Short Circuit's Johnny 5 said, "Need more input".

As to what I'll use the light for, it will vary widely. Part of the reason why I want it to be small, is because I will take it with me, when I travel. I may carry it in a carry-on, a glove box or in my pocket. I want a flood for walking or jogging at night. But I live on a golf course and at night, we have a variety of wildlife that we can see, only with a long throw flashlight. I have an HID light that is serious over-kill for this, but it burns through a huge battery in only a few minutes and the battery is not easily swapped out (it requires charging in the housing). My 200LM Redline is strong enough for this use, but just barely. Something 50 to 100% brighter would be perfect. So an 800LM light at half power would be great for this purpose. I don't need the strobe or the SOS. I do however, like the strobe as a security feature, since studies have shown that even senior LEOs have more trouble identifying a target, when facing a strobe, let alone hitting the target, than they do when facing a much brighter spot. Untrained criminals would have even more problems. The one or two second delay that a strobe would cause is all that the guy behind the strobe should need to neutralize the threat. My Redline also has a magnetic tailcap, which I find somewhat useful, but not necessary.

Thanks to everyone who has posted here, so far. The info is great. I just "Need more input".

Thanks
John (no relation to Johnny 5, though I have been compared to Marvin, from Hitchhikers Guide)

10

http://club.dealextreme.com/forums/Forums.dx/Forum.-209~threadid.530221

11

We’re all geeks here at least as it relates to flashlights :slight_smile:
Most of the emitters are made my Cree. You can go to the Cree website and download (pdf format) the spec sheets for the emitters.
The commonly found emitter with the greatest surface brightness is the XR-E R2 (Q5 is fine as well). The Q5 or R2 are just flux bins so greater efficiency at the same power.
The XM-L is a much larger emitter and therefore has a much greater output if driven to its max (3A vs 1A for the XR-E). However the surface brightness isn’t greater (max output/surface area). So you have much greater lumen output but not lux. Lux is what determines throw along with increasing the diameter of the optic or reflector.
If you have a gun then I think you would want a steady light so that you don’t disorient yourself. If you don’t I think a bright light combined with running might be in order. Just my opinion obviously on this matter however.
If you want more throw than the light that you had which I assume was already using an XR-E emitter then you have to increase the diameter of the reflector/optic. Going to a XM-L requires an even larger diameter reflector/optic for the same throw.
I solve the walking/hiking/animal ID issue for myself by using two lights. Usually a floody headlamp and then a smaller light similar to what you already have but driven a little harder or with a slightly bigger aspheric (and fixed rather than zoom usually).
It’s hard to get something that does two things well. If you like that concept (zoom) however I’d agree with the above post. For $14 you can get the Smallsun mentioned. It’s larger (roughtly 40mm head) and uses one 18650 and can still be carried in a coat pocket rather than a smaller pocket.
There’s really only two things controlling throw however…emitter surface brightness (XR-E)which includes how hard you drive it, and reflector/optic diameter.
Throw is also controlled (as is any light) by the inverse square law of light which states that light falls off as the square root of the distance from the light source. So there is a certain level of diminishing return regarding increases in diameter and usefulness and increase in throw.
You have to increase the candela output by 4 times to double the throw.

12

The XM-L puts out much more total light than an XR-E Q5 or XP-E Q5 but it is spread out more evenly over the beam of a light. The Q5 outputs less total lumens but most of its light output is concentrated in the beams hotspot. Its a bit like the old story that a woman's stiletto heel puts more pressure on the area it covers than an elephant's foot puts on that same small area. This is why the total lumens output by the T6 are more but the Q5's hotspot can be brighter. It is this concentrated brightness which produces more throw, especially in a zoomie. That's about the simplest way to think of it.

13

http://www.dinodirect.com/ltank007-ed-flashlight-cree-xre-q5-5mode-zoom-210lumens.html

A rational look at flood to throw lights makes thousands of lumens just not ever gonna happen...the up side is most people would say the redline light is pretty easy to beat .

i'd suggest a tank 007 737 since the build/fit and finish is very nice .it has 3 nicely spaced modes and strobe/sos . 18650 and 3AAA...If you decided to change emitters it's a nicer platform to work off of imho

I also like the edi-t lights for sale on dx /focal and lighttake

My guess is if you like the redline you'll love the edi-t lights

https://budgetlightforum.com/t/-/4689#node-5430

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/edi-t-p18-cree-q3-1-mode-180lm-convex-lens-... P18 1 mode 3xAAA

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/edi-t-p10-cree-q3-1-mode-180lm-convex-lens-... P10 1 mode 3xAAA

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/edi-t-p3-cree-q3-5-mode-180lm-convex-lens-w... P3 5 mode 3xAAA

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/edi-t-p13-cree-q3-3-mode-180lm-convex-lens-... P13 3 mode 3xAAA

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/edi-t-p5-cree-q3-3-mode-180lm-convex-lens-w... P5 3 mode 1x18650

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/edi-t-p2-cree-q3-1-mode-250lm-convex-lens-w... P2 1 mode 1x18650

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/edi-t-p19-cree-3-mode-180lm-convex-lens-whi... P19 3 mode 1x18650

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/edi-t-t13-cree-q3-3-mode-180lm-convex-lens-... T12 3 mode 1x18650

14

Even in a fixed-beam flashlight (which I prefer) the Chinese claims of 1000+ lumens is quite a marketing exaggeration (I tried to put that politely). But if you enjoyed your Nebo, I think you would be quite happy with a light like a 2xAA Caveman or Solarforce AAA light.

Then you will be ecstatic when you get an 18650 light...they are way cool.

15

VFMaddict,

That's a very informative description. It's the kind of info that I'm looking for.

Do you know what the actual difference is, either in total lumens or percentage, between the Q5 and T6 and the difference in beam angle, between the two?

Also, is information available about the effective run-time for the Q5 and T6, using some standard, such as with a single 18650?

Thanks again.

John

16

The run time would be determined by how hard the emitter was driven and that would depend on the individual flashlight manufacturer and not the emitter manufacturer.
If both emitters XR-E and XM-L were driven to the max allowed on their spec sheet the XR-E would run 3 times as long since it would be driven at 1A and the XM-L would be driven at 3A.
The beam angle of the XR-E is (I believe) about 95 degrees and (I believe) the XM-L is around 110 degrees.
The difference in lumens could be as great as 220 lumens for the XR-E to 900 or so for the XM-L (ball park figures) but again it depends on how hard they are driven and that also depends on heatsinking and whether one or two batteries are being used among other things.

17

Boaz,

You included links from DealExtreme, in your post. Have you actually bought from them? What was your purchase experience?

Thanks,
John

18

XR-E beam angle is 90 degrees and the XM-L is 125 degrees.

If you want maximum throw compared to flood, an XM-L is not the way to go even with it's higher output. The 90 degree viewing angle of an XR-E focuses the majority of it's light into the center of the aspheric lens transferring into greater throw distance than the XM-L. The XM-L spreads it's greater output into a wider area resulting in less actual lumens reaching the center of the aspheric lens where it matters, resulting in a great loss of brightness in it's throw.

The way to make up for it is to use a greater diameter aspheric lens and they don't even begin to get efficient with an XM-L until you hit 50mm or larger. 66mm lenses and up are best with the XM-L when it comes to throw. If you are looking to get fantastic flood then the XM-L is the king compared to an XR-E.

19

Johnnymac and VF, I sort of agree with you, but only in the sense that we are talking about a P60 reflector.

P60's sort of came about in the Luxeon era, and were even more optimized with the XR-E/XP-E. But once you get past that P60 reflector into the C8, TK41, etc, I think the throw of the beam still is much better with the XM-L than the XR-E. The only exception I can think of is that giant Solarforce masterpiece thrower, but I think even on that, if you put an XM-L in it would still get better throw than you would out of the XR-E

Aspherics? I try to avoid them like the plague, way too unpredictable for me in terms of what you will get when you try one, but I think in the future there might be more advances with flashlight lenses that may make them more feaseible.

20

Actually I think the OP was originally asking for aspheric advice which is where gcbryan and I are coming from. He wants info on a FTT light.

I agree with you that a large reflectored XM-L is better overall than an XR-E reflector based light. While the XR-E is able to reach out and touch something, it does so with a tiny spot. The XM-L will put more light over a larger area and is far more useful to me when something is far away. My old eyes don't have much use for a light over 300yds anyway. At that distance I still can't tell what something is in any detail even in broad daylight. ;)