After I got the MT09R XHP70.2, my MF01 219c is no fun anymore. My MF01 appears so dim now after using the MT09R.
As someone who missed out on the MT09R GB and is waiting on an MF01 219c, this is sad to hear. I’m glad you’re enjoying your new light, though!
I got my MT09R XHP70.2 yesterday, but with a flash flood going on last night i could not play with it outside, so I blinded myself in my office for a bit. I am VERY HAPPY WITH MY PURCHASE!
Thanks Terry
I have my MF01 being sent over to Lexel for modding. With Lexel’s buck driver, it should be alot more usable and probably reach 12k+ lumens, which is pretty impressive for 219C hi CRI and should be able to maintain high lumens for much longer. The stock MF01 driver plain sucks. It dims way too fast on turbo and dims way to drastically. UI is also not the best. The MT09R’s high mode is much more usable and UI is far better. Also I like the MT09R’s battery tube which is far more convenient than the separate battery holder in the MF01. MT09R is overall better built. However, I am looking forward to the upcoming MF03 monster. If Astrolux listens to forum input and improve their driver like Haikelite did, then that would make for one very interesting light.
[quote=Haikelite USA Official]
[quote=khas]
Because…the customer is always right?? 
But seriously, some of the best businesses I’ve dealt with, when faced with a question about product quality or performance, respond with -
“Thank you for your valuable information and feedback. We’re very sorry you’re having a problem with your*. Your experience is different from what I have experienced personally and in our testing. We have confidence in our product, and will stand behind it and the testing that was done. Why don’t we wait and see what other customers are experiencing when they receive their*? However, we stand by our products - if there is a problem with anything we deliver, rest assured we will make it right. If you would like to move forward now with returning your** now, we will also gladly help with that. Again, thank you for your interest in our product, and for your honest, helpful feedback”.
Terry, friend, I would simply relax a bit. “The truth will out” eventually, and either the light lives up to advertisement or is a bit short, and if short, that is something that lands in Dale’s lap as the manufacturer, not yours as the local representative. There is nothing really in between, and time will absolutely tell. And, in either situation, you’re not at fault.
Your worry or agitation maybe should be directed, privately, the OTHER direction on the supply chain
Peace
(FYI - I do some business and organization consulting)
I loath indirect and boiler language. The customer is not always right and some people are unreasonable and you cannot say you will satisfy them.
A frank dialog is more productive, less time consuming, and more useful.
I believe and trust Terry and Dale to want to provide an awesome product. Everyone of us, Terry and Dale included, want this to be successful and fun! Lots of time and effort seem to have been put into this project/sale for our enjoyment. I appreciate those with the lights providing information about their experiences. Information is important and I think we can all understand that. I also understand that it must be frustrating for a builder/merchant to see a few reviews/opinions that might give the impression that…“I have a bad one! These all suck!” This is not a fun feeling for either buyer or seller.
Do I believe that a first run of lights should be up to the claims and promises given? Of course. Do I wonder in the back of my mind if there might also be some problems with the first run of a boutique, cutting edge flashlight? Of course. I thought about waiting for after the group sale…but I wanted a blue one!
I temper that concern with the knowledge that I am one of the first ones to buy a cutting edge icon of the flashlight hobby. I understand it is not about providing light. I don’t “need” a 15000 lumen flashlight nor do I “need” another one at all. On some level this is a hobby for me…and to be honest a little ‘silly’. I like flashlights because they are a little miracle of physics that you can hold in your hand. It’s fun and silly to show a friend one of your high lumen blasters. Its fun to mod them and push out some more lumens or change their handling. It’s both simple and complex at the same time. Lighting up an entire football field with a device the size of a pop can for a reasonable price is crazy fun and marvelous science at the same time. This wasn’t possible less than 10 years ago.
Being a builder/merchant of a tech that changes so dramatically—almost by the week—must be a stressful endeavor. Prices are dropping during the times from proposal to delivery, and the tech changes in that amount of time as well. They can only hope to jump in at a high point, catch the tech/price wave and deliver a great product before the 50000 lumen, $80 light comes out in a few months and all the buzz moves to that.
What is definitely frustrating are the time frames. When we wait weeks/months for the BEST LIGHT EVER, and there is maybe no way or a difficult way to address a faulty one, that frustrates us. If I buy something from Amazon or Walmart and it doesn’t work…that issue is dealt with in a few short days with 100% satisfaction. Crazy bright lights from China…well that’s a different matter altogether. I wait a few months/weeks for my unicorn light from China, spend a lot of money on it…and if it is faulty…that is a huge let down in this day of quick, hassle free returns we have grown accustomed to. Naturally after the wait, expense and anticipation of possessing a really brilliant product, if it shows up below what we were offered it is disappointing and due to the nature of the hobby addressing the issue can also be time consuming and frustrating. Amazon and Walmart can take that expense in stride. It’s built into their profit strategies. Small companies that make boutique products will have a different and more difficult way to address those expenses. This is also a good reason/incentive for a company/merchant to make sure their product is 100% so they too can maintain their margins and not go broke fixing and addressing faulty products or other consumer issues. It is in their best interest to deliver a product at 100% the first time…this increases their profit potential and keeps them in business. Every time they have to deal again with a light they sent out the door costs them money and reputation.
I realize this when I go in. I roll the dice, take my 99% chance that all will be awesome and hope for the best. On the chance there is an issue, I expect the manufacturer/seller to make it right…as slow as it can be.
My blue Haikelite 70.2 15000 lumen light is in Connecticut USPS now. It will arrive in a few days! There is a 99% chance it will be perfect and awesome! I am also ready for the other 1% chance of a different outcome. I trust Terry and Dale to help us address our issues if there are any, but more than that I trust them to deliver a product as good as they claimed. I am glad they are providing us a chance to purchase a cutting edge example of what our fun hobby is all about. As the leaders they will get the credit or the blame as the case may be, but I appreciate them taking the chance to provide, and if they make a few dollars to take care of their families that is fine with me too. “Profit” is not a dirty word.
Either way—I am at peace with my decision to get in on this group buy and find all the comments interesting and fun to read.
Good luck Terry and Dale…and good luck to us—the customer.
We all want the same thing…fun, stupid bright lights!
I am assuming you mean “boilerplate” language (I’m a Purdue Boilermaker grad, so “boiler” has a positive connotation to me, lol).
I also don’t typically like boilerplate language…hence my follow up statement “but seriously…”.
I would say, honestly, this is a different situation with different dynamics that I’m used to. So, honestly, anything I might add is prone to “situational ignorance”. The dynamic of a rep selling to what amounts to a large group of friends is different than most standard business models I usually work in.
However, I’m just trying to be helpful, and giving a newcomers viewpoint. I have to admit I’m a little surprised at the tenor of the back-and-forth going on this thread between customers and the seller. But then again…Maybe it’s the norm for this community?
I have to say man without shadow…. well said.
TSO
Terry, friend, I would simply relax a bit. “The truth will out” eventually, and either the light lives up to advertisement or is a bit short, and if short, that is something that lands in Dale’s lap as the manufacturer, not yours as the local representative. There is nothing really in between, and time will absolutely tell.
Your words were in fact very helpful !!!
Just to share something interesting. I bought the latest Zebralight SC5w II rated at 550 lumens from Zebralight’s website. I was so disappointed when it appeared so dim to my eyes and I confirmed that it was even dimmer than my UT01 rated at 400 lumens. I then bought another one on Amazon to see if it’s any different and it appeared much brighter. I swapped several different fully charged Pros and Non Pro eneloop batteries and repeated the test many times to rule out battery problems. Here are my results, which were very consistent every repeated measurement:
SC5w II from Zebralight.com read 44 lux
SC5w II from Amazon.com read 68 lux
Utorch UT01 NW (CW rated at 400 lumens) read 49 lux
Lumintop EDC05 NW (CW rated at 400 lumens) read 28 lux
Thrunite Archer 2A V3 NW (CW rated at 500 lumens) read 72 lux
So it seems even the most reputable high end brand (Zebralight) are not as consistent as one would imagine. Regarding my two Haikelite MT09R XHP70.2, I am very happy with the performance and believe the 5000k version exceeds the 15,000 lumens by quite a bit from my relative lux comparisons to my dozens of other flashlights. I also don’t mind my 4000k version being about 77% as bright as the 5000k version because I love the tint and 80+ CRI. To me the MT09R is the current best bang for the buck high lumen flashlight you can buy.
Agreed...
Man Without Shadow, well spoken, and I agree and say “here, here!” to your words above.
I would echo and heartily agree with 90% of them!
Where I might would differ as a customer is that I actually have very little discretionary funds to spend on our “silly hobby” (many, many kids in college), an so spent months researching what would be the perfect light to represent the “10000+ lumen soda can light” in my small collection. So, my investment may be a little greater (relatively), my concern a little greater, and my disappointment a little deeper if there is a problem.
However, I know we are taking a risk in buying cutting edge technology, and one I was willing to take. This part of the endeavor I don’t really have a problem with.
I think I would also differ in my assessment of the conversation that’s gone before. I feel that our Tuetonic friend from TFL has not been overly or unfairly critical, and has gone about making assessments based solely on observation and the available, measurable information. I have several friends and business associates from Germany, and it’s definitely a different culture. Its this culture of analytical thinking and obsession with detail and performance that gave us Mercedes Benz, BMW, Porsche, Steinway, Hugo Boss and Aigner, all amazingly engineered, beautiful products. As far as my friends go, I have come to expect that rigid attention to detail and blunt pragmatism that kicks in when it comes to R&D, design and manufacturing. It’s different, but something I’ve come to appreciate, and it doesn’t bother me. Even when they begin critiquing the way I wrap the tinfoil around the vegetables on the barbecue, lol. “The heat would be better distributed if you wrapped the foil longitudinally, yah?”
Speaking of different cultures - I’m guessing from Terry’s videos that he’s born and raised in either Georgia, Alabama or Arkansas :). My family is from Alabama, so that’s a very familiar culture. There, one doesn’t question a friend! Southern gentility precludes second guessing a business partner, directly questioning a contractor, or speaking ill (or even frankly) about a difficult business situation. Those things are done quietly, by inference, or are just ignored and another partnership found.
The way I see it, this thread has been a fantastic example of a clash of cultures and business models, and in a slightly weird way, fun to watch.
Where the consultant begins to kick in is in the fact that one side of this “discussion” has come from a customer, while the other from a product provider (seller).
While the commentary from the buyer may have been a bit terse and suffered from the language barrier and culture differences a bit, the response from the vendor seemed to be a little too defensive a little to early in the endeavor, when maybe a simple “thanks for your input, let’s wait and see how the first batch turns out as a whole, and then we can assess what maybe needs to be addressed” would maybe have served better.
Sorry, can’t stop consulting! In truth, I haven’t helped by commenting, I think. I believe my thoughts or observations would have been better shared through a PM than as a forum response.
Sorry, and peace to all!
Can’t wait for my light to come in
From my point of view you are the last in the circle to say “Sorry!” - I think that was a perfect analytic view on this thread.
As I mentioned in other posts, I would have been extremly happy if I would have received a working XHP35 - I did not buy it to say “hello, it’s wrong”. I also have better ways to spend my time. But as I also mentioned, I am an engineer - and based on this I work the way I did.
I think your idea of the “clash of cultures” is not that far away from reality.
Yesterday I had been to one of my most important customers - and he kicked my axe brutally because we delieverd crap. I checked everything and he was right. So we agreed about what we have to do so this would never happen again.
After this we agreed about the schedule for our private motorcycle tour in May.
Even though the internet downsizes the world to a village, the differences between people are noticable.
By the way: my XHP70.2 together with the two MT09R (70&35) from ulfm1 will leave today to one of the members of the TLF with a real Ullbricht-sphere - so hopefully in a couple of days we get calibrated results for these flashlights. Based on this I will also get a couple of my other flashlights measured so I can verifiy it with the new luxmeter that should arrive today.
I’m so exited!
This is a very good plan. Then we will finally have some resilient results and this discussion about differences in measurement methods will have an end here.
It will be really interesting to see how accurate Terrys pipe construction is (not to be meant disrespectful) compared to a real Ulbricht sphere.
I think in this case its not neccessary to be that accurate. Why? We are not talking about 200 or 400 lumens of deviation here, were talking about 2000-2500 lumens for the XHP35 variant compared to specification. So if the Ulbricht sphere shows about 5000 lumens for a series production model, i think production fluctuations between different charges are not a valid reason to explain this.
If it shows 6000 or more for the neutral white variant, im happy, cause NW always has less lumens than CW.
I do not see the necessity.
My experience with HAIKELITE shows that the output level in between one series is very similar - which I define as one of the biggest advantages of HAIKELITE. If somebody has measured it, you can be quite sure that the one you buy tomorrow will be very equal.
In fact, for example all the SC01 and SC02 I measured (more than 5 of each type) are all in an area of less than +/- 2% (SC01 from 1.627 to 1.692, SC02 from 2.025 to 2.098), which I would have defined “measurement error” if I wouldn’t have done it directly one after the other.
I did the same with the NITECORE Concept 1 - and with those +/- 6% were standard…
At the end it’s a flashlight - or as written in one of my first posts: not a device to cure cancer.
You may for sure find someone crawling out of the tinfoil crying “but you used old batteries!” - but if you measure it in a calibrated Ullbricht sphere we arrive at a point where I say “one lux is one lux - all over the world”.
Did I mention that my new luxmeter should have arrived that morning? Yes, I received something - a centering stick for a turning machine… both had very similar order numbers… 876112 & 878112… sometimes life is hard… there seems to be just a small difference between a piece of metal for a couple of bucks and a calibrated metering device for several hundred Euro…
In a perfect world I would sit on Terrys porch and we would have a cup of coffee together after having measured our lights… but there is still no highway between our countries…
If this is enough for you, than it’s perfect for me…
Cant wait to compare it to my modified MF01 running narsilM.
Well said!!