First off; while I can't speak for him, nor am I defending anybody, I would very surprised if Hank didn't make this right with you, regardless of whether the light is defective or not. (which it sounds like it is)
The word "alkaline" does indeed appear in the specs. If I had made a purchase decision based on the belief that top XM-L performance would be possible with 3 AA alkaline batteries then, yes, the specifications did not say enough.
My Cyclone is the 3-mode/cool white U2/1B version and although it didn't occur to me until now to try primaries, I just put 3 fresh Duracell AAs in mine and it functioned flawlessly. What it also did was sag worse than a high mileage cougar.
I stood my Cyclone on its tail next to the Foyometer with a King Kong and got 140 in my half dark office. With 3 Eneloops I got 105 and with primaries I got 85 that sagged to 70 in about 45 seconds. That's roughly half the output of a lithium-ion battery . . . which is no surprise to me at all.
On high, I pulled 2.79 amps with a King Kong, 2.0 to 1.90 amps with 3 Eneloops and 1.40 amp with 3 Duracell AAs that sagged to 1 amp in less than 30 seconds. (guess they were tired after the light meter beating) Again, about half the current of li-ion.
If you got UI blinking/low output issues then you've likely got a bad light. But, alkys simply are not up to the task of of dealing with a flashlight that can suck near 3 amps from a 4,000 mAh power source. I promise you that with a 3.7 volt lithium-ion battery, your new Cyclone will indeed out-throw a 980L but it'll never do it with the old lady at the end of the bar drinking Russian Qualudes. (i.e. alkalines)
I have the 5-mode, same emitter and bin. After a night of using it, I'm impressed with the throw it has at its current level of brightness. And it doesn't dim one bit. But it's dimmer than the 980L (as it seemed to be in the pic comparison in your thread as I noticed before I had the light). But it does outthrow it, I'd say.
But off and on, instead of turning back onto the mode I last used it in, it goes to strobe and I must cycle through the modes again - strobe, SOS, low, medium, and high, in that order. And sometimes, when it is tapped, it doesn't change modes at all, or because the button doesn't have enough play, it gets clicked off. When turned back on, it then starts on the next level. This is annoying because you can put the light down for hours and come back and you'll be in the next mode when turned on. Hasn't been doing for the last 4 hours, though. Odd.
And yes, I got the light for AA use. I knew alkies would sag, but this behavior is unusable. I even threw lithium AAs from Radioshack in there and got no light at all. So yeah, definitely something wrong here.
I think It just sounded really odd that you said you were using AA batteries with 1,3 volts which means they are dead or damn near dead .
I wondered wh there was so much conversation about anything untill anyone heard you put brand new batteries in it ..
You Said Lithium but I never heard the word brand new or what the voltage is on them either so I'm wondering ..Do you have a new set of AA batteries of a set of nimh charged batteries you can put in this light ??
I've heard people say their lights aren't getting decent amperage numbers and then thye say they are using an ultra=fire red battery and you say ....ahh well that explains a lot of things righ there ..
What kind of 18650 are you using and what's the voltage ...and what kind of amps is the light pulling ?
1.3 won't do squat ...ever they are dead .. stick them in a 5 mm nichia light
I converted a 3*AA SAiK light to XM-L and a Nanjg 105c driver and it works fine using the AA carrier and cheap "Dollar Tree" Sunbeam alkalines. It's not quite as bright as when I put in a 26500 but it works great otherwise.
Based on my experience it should definitely work on alkalines.
I’m thinking along the same lines as Boaz. Put some new batteries in there. I tried my L2i with primaries last night and it worked(105c,XML) although output was reduced and sagged pretty bad. Wouldn’t last really long like that and might not be a great idea but it did work.
OK, charging up the nimh's now (I don't have new non-rechargeables), but I don't think you guys are getting the point. These batteries at their current charge (1.2 volts) work fine in every other light I have...except this one. And even if, by chance, they work on the full 1.5 volts, how in the world would they be of use to me if they offer a few fleeting minutes of dying light until their voltage gets back to where it was, hence causing this? When you advertise something to work with a certain battery, it needs to actually work with that battery. This does not. You guys' does, which tells me mine is the problem.
Honestly, can you imagine a guy's car dying and another guy coming along and saying: "You need more gas." And the first guy says: "What do you mean? I have 2/3s of a tank left." Then the guy says: "Well, this car calls for better gas. Try filling it up all the way and I bet it'll work. I have the same car and it works fine when full. Either that, or use better gas." The obvious idea is, I shouldn't need the equivalent of "better gas," nor should I have to keep a full tank. The light is defective.
I just tried another set and same result--a few seconds of about 350-ish lumens, followed by the ultra-low blink. The 18650 was a cheapie, yes, but was 4.2 upon put-in and is now (after nearly 45 minutes of overnight use and no dimming) down to 3.7 volts. No difference in output whatever, just the issue with the mode switching. I just can't see this light as NOT being defective at this point.
I hear what you are saying, Joe, and I agree with you. It's just that until you try it with fresh alkalines don't rule it out. Your analogy works to a point as the last gallon of gas in a tank has just as much power potential as the first gallon in a full tank has. It's not the same with batteries. It's actually more like a wind up car. When fully wound it runs great but as the spring unwinds down the car slows then moves only when helped with a tap then none at all. You pick it up and the wheels spin again and you say, "it can't be the spring tension, just look at the wheels spinning", then you put it back down and it stops dead. It's the same with this light.
I bet none of your 3*AAA lights are driven at more than 800mAh so very little load is on them. This is a 2.8A driven XM-L and draws a high current from your cells. Alkalines sag too much and unless they are completely full, will barely work. 1.2v NiMHs work because they can deliver the amount of current, even at a lower voltage, that the driver requires to feed the LED. It's just the way they work.
I'm holding off reviewing the TC6 because at first, it wasn't pulling the promised amps and now it turns completely off if you point it up. Hank said he thinks I got one of the old version heads by mistake. He's sending a new head.
I must say that the Cyclone works great with Eneloops. I've had a serious prejudice against this torch (because of the E/C88) but I'm forced to admit that the Cyclone is a very impressive flashlight and I'm almost certain you (Rusty) will really like it. I'm just not sure you'll be satisfied with its performance on primaries. If not, you'll have no problem selling it but my guess is, you won't want to.
Best you can do in the 3AA department is to ditch the springs on the carrier - just rip em right out. Then bend the sheet metal up so it makes battery contact directly. That'll eliminate a lot of the resistance. As for the batteries, to drive even an XML to 2.8A with 3AA, you've got to use NiMH. Three alkaline AAs don't have what it takes to push 2.8A for longer than a sneeze. Maybe the lithium primary AAs might, but those things are so damn expensive, it's not worth finding out.
As far as expectations go, for driving a high power LED light to ~9W with alkalines, I wouldn't expect much from any less than at least 6AAs or 4Ds. I've built a few alkaline powered LED lights for non-flashaholics, some using buck drivers, others with regulators. The AAs worked well with buck drivers (and low resistance carriers) but the regulator based lights all called for 4D cells. Even 4C cells sagged too much or too quickly to be practical at 2.8A, as did 3D cells.
It's officially a dud. Pulled the Ninh's off the charger before work--same deal with barely 3 or 4 seconds of light and then back to ultra-low flashing. She's a dud.
I'd try the best 18650 you have and a paperclip too or the meter ..or both . I'd also get rid of the reflector and the AA carrier ...just tube driver and emitter and a fresh 18650 w/ 4.2 volts .
Rusty Joe...I'm sorry I doubted you ...or the umph of your batteries ..
I know how it feels
we all do
Foy my advice to you is don't point your light up ..
Its sounds to me hank knew at one point at least he had a problem ...this light had real potential .going backwards with the pill wasn't a great idea no matter whose idea it was.