Reminds me of most kids, and why i dont have any 
Iāve watched Muskās Powerwall debut, and he isnāt the best speaker in the world, but I do agree that itās not too useful for those without solar panels installed. The price difference during peak hours just isnāt high enough to be worth it.
However, it would be a very nice storage system for homes with solar panels, and the entire presentation was based on the usefulness of the combination, not just the Powerwall itself. It would be really nice to see the entire world transition into solar power (or any other renewable resource), although I fear kickback from utility companies which could affect government subsidies.
But then who will babysit you when your sick and / or old and could use help?
Think of them like an investment if you wish. Take care of them well, add a pinch of luck and you have someone to help you when you need it. Plus all that love, fulfillment and junk. 
I donāt see what the big deal is. He is presenting it as if itās something revolutionary. If they invented a completely new type of batteries it would be something different.
For most people this is something newā¦like the applewatch is ātheā smart watch to get, but we know there were such watches available for yearsā¦
Tesla is one of the companies who can make aāsexyā product which people like. I hope that this helps to bring such technology to a lot people.
You canāt compare such a smart device with the old school day and night contracts were people got cheaper power in night. Such a intelligent device could only be charged if the realtime power costs are below a certain valueā¦so you could minimize power costs. In some countries there are even hours in the night were the power is freeā¦
Solar Panels Need 10year before you have back your investment from them so I wouldnāt overemphasize thatā¦
The next step would definetly be to give power back to grid, but this would need another expensive investment in electronics and a smart regulation system/software.
To store the sun energy makes no sense here(Germany) at the moment because we have laws which guarantee you prices for electricity which you deliver to the system, these prices are guaranteed for decades so that you can calculate everything before you install it on your roof, of course that makes power more expensive for everyone but it is a worth a try in my eyes.(people actually do it to make profit, first 10 years the system pays for its own credits and the ten years after that you can earn money, if nothing breaks of course)
I know, i just donāt have any yet.
There are other considerations.
For example, the peaks of demand are during the day, not at night. Domestic consumption in most industrialised nations is low compared to the consumption by industry/commerce. So home solar if seen as a means to compliment the grid, makes sense.
Additionally a growing society at the upper limit of its current power production capacity has need for new sources of power during peak times to meet increasing demand, but not at night. Power plants cost a lot to build and run. Its not necessarily of financial benefit to said society to build a new plant today. Its capacity will exceed needs for years to come at all times not just at night, however, small solar systems for example are a stop gap treatment until the demand increase is at the magic number of the theoretical plants capacity that makes it viable.
Australia during the GFC had in place a system of incentive and subsidy to encourage spending and keep the sense of a strong economy alive. As a result of direct spending there was a massive increase in the number of homes using solar to feed the grid, not store, but feed the grid, for nix due to government incentive. But the homeowner is paid per kw, or moreover its used to offset your consumption from the grid, excess is paid in either direction depending. As a caveat, this example is much more complex and for example part of the reason I think its a decent option is costs are at an all time high here, the mining boom has a flow on effect for every industry, its harder to keep good staff with the mining industry incentives of high wages. Large scale projects during this time come at a premium so its better to wait for that period in time to end as it inevitably will, at that time theres not so much upward pressure on wages and large scale projects are more affordable. A plant in that case pays for itself much much sooner.
Nah, forget about that, If you really want you could get used Model S battery pack from this guy for much less $ and build the rest by your self.
1 thread with many juicy pictures
2 thread with many juicy pictures
Sorry for noob questions ā¦
Are these new packs all based on 18650 cells?
Is this mega factory going to produce a single format, 18650?
I thought that packing 18650 into modules wastes a lot of space, empty void between cells, making packs bigger. I was expecting the brick type shape to replace cylinders, kinda like in phones and tablets, etc. So that you can stack them and not waste any space.
Can someone explain what type cells are used in these new wall devices and why?
thanks
Teslaās system is based on 18650 batteries and lithium. Lithium is very reactive to water and toxic. If we have to stay with Lithium I would rather try something from Prieto battery. Their lithium battery is based around copper foam and liquid slurry that is non-flammable as well as stores 60% more energy. On the other hand, for my house I would like to avoid the use of toxic materials as much as possible. For that reason I like the Aquion Energy storage solution.
Please provide references to the toxicity of the Tesla used lithium batteries. The only lithium battery chemistry that I am aware of that is considered toxic (at leakage) is Lithium-Thionyl chloride (Li-SOCl2) The 18650 sized batteries used by Tesla are not Li-SOCl2.
Carbon free nuclear is a good source of green power. Most waste can be reprocessed and usable fuel recovered and burned. There are also non uranium thorium reactors that are inherently safer and generate less waste. At some point in the future the nuclear āwasteā of today will be used to generate more energy and consumed entirely. The biggest problem nuclear power faces is lack of knowledge and hysteria.
Thats great, but the next big thing is always 10 years away, as the saying goes tomorrow never comes.
If the technology is actually invented thats great, we should use it on nuclear waste, but you canāt bank on that because if your wrong we are all really screwed.
However it has been shown that wind and solar can provide many times humanityās electrical need, i remember reading a report that wind could today produce something like 18x the electricity currently used on earth.
In addition battery research will hopefully allow more storage density and electric cars, the Ford Nucleon was not exactly practical
Carbon free nuclear power is working today not ten years from now.
I disagree that solar and wind can provide all electric needs, lighting perhaps, but not industrial needs like aluminum smelting and steel making. I suspect they theorized based on the total solar energy hitting earth and using 100% efficient solar cells. I donāt want to live in a landscape covered in solar cells, I prefer trees and plants.
More efficient batters, also in the future, will be useful, however, they still need a source of energy for production and charging.
Your biases are apparent, all of humanity means aluminum smelters steel and any other electricity used on the planet.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-earth-has-enough-wind-energy-potential-to-power-all-of-civilization-2012-9
In addition no one says only use wind clean nuclear would be great, put that waste to use, hopefully ITER will work but you canāt put all your eggs in one basket.
Lithium is toxic to the kidneys. In small amounts itās great for mood stabilization of bipolar patients. Tricky to manage as it is easy for those patients to accidentally or purposely overdose on. Correct me if Iām wrong but -I believe the reason landfills donāt want the dead lithium batteries is the possibility of leaching into the ground water. At any rate you should avoid ingesting lithium unless by prescription.
Also a hoot to toss pure chunks of the stuff into water. Unfortunately I have not been afforded the opportunity to try this and I have only seen the videos of this and other alkali metals being tossed into ponds. I did treat some college girls from the local university that tossed a small chunk of sodium into a flushing toilet. The toilet exploded and they received numerous cuts from pieces of porcelain toilet. (Eww BTW) They thought, and actually I also thought the blast would be directed up and not be as intense as it actually was. They were lucky to not lose an eye or get killed. Just stitches.
These Aquion sodium sulfate battery systems are getting some press here, anybody have any experience with them ?
Iād love to combine them with solar to get mostly off the grid, and I donāt know how long the tesla powerwall will be.
51.2 inches in length :bigsmile:
Apparently they now use Sodium Perchlorate, which is pretty scary compared to Lithium Ion.
Not to beat a dead horse, but Lithium Ion is not Lithium. Itās hard for ālay peopleā who come here for dependable advice to make valid decisions if some of us continue to insist on confabulating the two.
If you want to be safe, cheap, and low maintenance, why not use a few dozen Crowfoot Cells Youāll have to find some big glass jars to make your own, because theyāre out of favor with telegraph companies and railroadsā¦
At the end of the Cost-Benefit Analysis, uncounted hordes of really smart people ā scientists and engineers ā have been working hard for over a century to make electricity a viable power source, so Iām naturally skeptical of any glamorous web page touting a ābreakthroughā. If you donāt understand why itās funny that a DC-powered car is called the Tesla, maybe you should put your private electrification project on the back burner for now, or just pony up the bucks for an off-the-shelf system.
OTOH, if Joe Sixpack, Soccer Mom and the kids could be trusted with seriously energetic materials ā and judges could be persuaded to dismiss āproduct liabilityā lawsuits when itās obviously a āstupid userā problem (say, Soccer Mom though it would be oh-so-clever to bleach her mop of hair with 98% H2O2 so now we canāt use it to fuel a silent turbine generator), maybe this could turn into an interesting conversationā¦
For those that donāt get the joke, here is why itās funny.
Back in the day it was Tesla and Westinghouse vs Edison as to how electricity should be distributed. Tesla-Westinghouse for AC and Edison for DC. We know how that worked out.
In fact I have always believed that the Westinghouse logo contains a reference to this battle of AC vs DC.
AC standing victorious over DC
Does anyone here have the T-Shirt?
