And this is right. I hate when someone pays too much attention to some unimportant things (here tons of such people who likes to discuss Snowden and etc.), and then take iphone out of their pocket.
Its simple. Nobody whats to make product worth. If some company will try, other brands will set focus on this problems (in advertising, reviews and etc) and game over.
In most situations, if you know that you can change one thing and this will make product better - you should just show your abilities (how did you fix it) and this will bring you cash.
You should focus on other things. How do company work with suppliers and vendors. How do they manage production processes. How do they organize QC.
I cant be expert in programming and IT processes. I just know how grow information amount in the internet, each page or application weights much more than several years ago, this cant be made my one company, I think this is OK when old gadgets dont like new heavy processes.
Other realms that I can discuss more professionally - they never shown me any “tactics deterioration”. If you think that this is made bad to be broken - in 99.9% situations - this is much (times) cheaper that old (good) technologies. You just cant imagine how expensive would be products made within “old scool” technologies nowadays (country doesnt matter).
He did Clemence 
But the off-topic conversation is starting to obscure the initial purpose of this thread that was to talk about the Nitecore TIP 2017 version…
Of course conspiracies are real.
People conspire things all the time, especially when it’s about power and money.
Not all conspiracy theories are real though.
It’s as if there’s a conspiracy to spread false conspiracy theories…
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About the TIP 2017, i like mine, i got a grey aluminium one.
…that is, it’s plastic but with aluminium covers…
I bet they (Nitecore) make a lot of profit on their plastic based lights.
The TIP 2017 is very bright! I was surprised by its brightness.
I replaced the XP-G2 with a 219C 3500K. Very nice.
Improved the thermal path from LED board to the aluminium cylinder with the optics too
The optics are nice.
The lens has very good AR coating.
It’s my 3rd Nitecore.
I also have a HC30 and a Concept 1.
The distinction between “strategy / tactic” and “conspiracy” is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Strategy / tactic : a method used by someone to achieve an objective.
Conspiracy / alliance : when at least two people get together and agree to work toward a common objective. They might choose to use the same strategy / tactic, they might not. Describing something as a conspiracy implies that it’s bad, describing it as an alliance makes it sound good.
The thing is, it doesn’t matter if they conspire or not. If companies all independently choose to use similar strategies / tactics to increase their profit margins by making flimsier products, that’s just as bad for the consumer as it would have been if the companies had got together and conspired to do it.
A race to the bottom might not be as fast as a team effort to reach the bottom, but they still hit the bottom at the end.
All we care about is whether the product seems like good value to us. Compare notes, read reviews, consider results. Decide whether the quality is acceptable or not, then avoid companies who fall short. Places like BLF are good for that 
Conspiracy theories are generally pointless, whether the conspiracies are happening or not. Show me the emails the conspirators were sending to each other and then I’ll pay attention.
Actually, that’s exactly what it is.
Using a cheaper switch, eg, is a way to make sure that the switch will fail much more quickly than a more capable switch.
A lousy thermal path makes sure that the emitter (and possibly driver, too) all overheat and reduce the lifetime of one/both.
Saving pennies is the immediate benefit, but having to replace a cheap light is the deferred benefit.
Both are key criteria of planned obsolescence.
Which is planned obsolescence.
See the example cited, of front-loading washing-machines.
Not only is the main bearing molded into the tub (preventing easy replacement), but there are no rollers supporting the tub from underneath, forcing the bearing to bear the full weight of tub plus laundry in each and every cycle.
One electronics trade-rag (Design News?) has a “Made By Monkeys” column that exposes (by readers) some of the (on the surface) completely idiotic design decisions made in some products.
Eg, membrane switches for dishwashers molded right into the door of the device, where it’s continually exposed to hot dirty water, to the point where the seals fail, the switches get ruined, and the cost to repair/replace the switch-panel almost equals the cost to just scrap the old machine and replace it with a new one.
Nope, it’s absolutely intentional. Else it’s true incompetence.
Someone spending extra time of money in order to make a product fail sooner is the conspiracy theory. Other than with printers, I haven’t seen this happen.
A chinese company that is trying to increase their profit margin by using cheaper materials or faster construction methods is not “planned obsolescence” it is simply a compromise between cost and quality.
Just because the flashlight is made out of 6061 aluminum instead of titanium does not mean some people in the company are trying to make it fail sooner.
They are reducing cost and increasing profit.
Just because an assembly line worker does 100 flashlights an hour instead of meticulously spending 3 hours to make sure the LED is perfectly centered does not mean it is “planned obsolescence”
They only get paid little per hour and are required to work at a certain speed to again increase profits.
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Just like with most electronics, if you have old apps and install many upgrades and updates, the device slows down over time due to incompatibilities and errors in the background.
This is the problem with the majority of people, they think that installing updates just magically transfers everything perfectly to a new OS.
That’s not how it works.
If you want things to work at the original speed, you need to CLEAN INSTALL the operating system and reinstall the apps, then everything will work perfectly.
Unfortunately 99% of people have no idea how software updates work behind the scenes and just blame the hardware/software company for their slow device rather than doing proper research on how to maintain the original speed.
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Same with PCs. It’s not microsoft that’s making windows slow, it’s the irresponsible people that don’t know how to clean install an operating system.
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Oh great, so by your logic literally everything except a space shuttle or mars rover is “planned to be obsolete” because they do not use the highest possible quality components and materials and assembly methods.
Wow, such great logic.
I guess I should panic about everything I buy now that it is planned to be obsolete!!1!
:person_facepalming: :person_facepalming: :person_facepalming:
You seem to be stuck on the presumption that planned obsolescence is an intentionally-evil “conspiracy” where extra effort and resources are put into “designed failure”, similar to chipped inkjet cartridges. That’s a “conspiracy”, of sorts.
Just using a hollow pill (shelf/ledge only) for a cheap light is enough. It’s designed to be cheaper than a solid pill, but has the additional benefit, albeit deferred, to reduce the device’s life-expectancy.
Going cheap and molding-in a load-bearing bearing with zero support underneath, is intentionally designing a device with failure planned-in. The bearing might hold up for, say, 3yrs of normal use, when the warranty is only 1yr or 2yrs maximum. There’s no additional effort required to design it that way, but the whole unit will fail after an average lifetime. Long enough to not require warranty repairs, but not so long that you’d buy one washer and keep it for 20yrs.
How about Mercedes and other Europe-based car manufacturers, who designed cars with biodegradable(!!) parts, DESIGNED to decompose after a number of years? (Look up “mercedes wiring harness”.)
Or plastic exterior panels that don’t hold up too well to cold temperatures (become brittle and develop hairline cracks) and degrade from UV exposure. They’re touted as being “durable” (for X years only, of course), are the solution to “lightweighting” cars for better gas mileage, but can’t be repaired with Bondo™ in case of a minor dent and need to be replaced instead. And once the mfr stops making them…
It comes down to one simple design goal. “We don’t want our products to last more than X years. So we’ll only use parts which will last for no more than that time. We’ll save money. The product will be cheaper. Yet the customer will need to replace it after it ‘wears out’.”
And even satellites and space-probes that go out into space and can’t be repaired are only designed to last X years. Anything beyond that is a bonus. They don’t need to be designed to “last forever”, but just long enough to achieve the designated goals.
So similarly, cars, phones, computers, etc., are only designed to last X years. Anything beyond that is a bonus. But the mfrs are not going to design their products to last forever. That’s a conscious, intentional, deliberate design goal.
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I had an 1986 Chevy that lasted over 20yrs, something like 22-23.
I’ve got a 1999 Buick that’s still going strong. Second one, as my first ’99 got wrecked, and was in pristine condition.
I don’t know if my 2013 Buick will last that long, with all the electronix that’s prone to just going mental. Apparently, even different models of the same year use completely different trunk-release relays! At least that’s the excuse I was given to not be able to replace the existing relay with a 2-shot relay that’s listed (part number and everything) in a Technical Service Bulletin.
Can I just suggest something, on topic, how about changing the title of this thread since we concluded that it was not a bad quality issue but rather “customer not reading instruction” problem.!
You use very bad examples Lightbringer.
Hollow pill is not cheaper. Also, I have gifted more that 20 sipik clones and non of them have burn led after years of usage.
Front-load washing machine is form-factor. In russia we usually have 1sq. m toilet and same size bathroom, washing machine goes to kitchen and the only way to fit kitchen is front-load machine.
Car manufactures have to find ways to increase % of materials that can be used several times (forced by greenpiece and etc.).
Big brands loose tons of money, but anyway they continue making parts for old models made 20 years ago.
There is no good or bad manufactures. They can manage better or worth, but goods quality depends only from customers choise. Yes russian cola or twix have awfull composition (some food components are restricted in eu), but every manufacture will make it as cheap as possible until buyers dont recognize sh*t (and some people wont recognize real sh*t). Products are as bad as possible until common buyer wouldnt pay for it.
Your theory is very popular. Problem that you never know HOW much could cost goods that you mark as good. You are saying too common things. Choose one good, one technology, one process. Say what is bad nowadays and what was better in old scool time. And I will try to explain why it is much more expensive.
P.S. You cant imagine what words Im hearing when trying explain to the neightbors that using hundreds tons of bricks and concrete is not necessary for small household. “My grandfather build same and it still stays”, “I will never stay in house from cardboard” etc. Yes they can stay hundreds years, but upgrading all engineer systems to modern would cost 2 or 3 times more than new house from wood, osb and drywall. You dont feel this sh*t, this is standart technology for US for last 100 years. But in russian youtube you can find lots videos “disclaimer” that shows how thiefs can enter your house with screwdriver and etc.
So, if you dont like modern cars and gadgets - maybe you just too old . Have you ever seen millenials that dont like new iphone every year?
Obviously everything will fail after some time. If you want to call everything “planned obsolescence” then that’s up to you.
What I call that is low cost manufacturing.
What the other guy was talking about is it being “planned” and “intentional” where extra effort is put in to designing it to fail or slow down like in his apple example.
I showed tests that completely disprove that BS, and explained why it “slows down” (because of less tech-savvy users not knowing how software works)
Yes there are some cases where a manufacturer intentionally does things to purpousefully reduce the lifespan, not this one.
But I can guarantee you that when a flashlight company tells it’s workers to build 100 flashlights an hour instead of 50, or chooses to use 6061 aluminum instead of 7075, they are not thinking “hahaha! now this product will fail in 7.9 years instead of 8! more sales!! hahaha!”
I don’t agree with this. A properly maintained PC does not require regular fresh installs and will still keep most of it’s speed.
The hundreds of thousands of issues that happened when people were upgrading from windows 7/8 to 10 are proof that you are mistaken.
Even if the PC seems to be working correctly, there are plenty of errors happening in the background which you can see in windows event viewer.
Sometimes these issues don’t change anything to your experience, other times they cause issues months later when another windows update tries to install on the half corrupted OS and then fails.
The only solution is to clean install.
Obviously if you maintain your PC well then you’re a lot less likely to have issues, but it does not mean that there will be no issues.
An operating system is extremely complex and a lot of small things have potential to go wrong.
Go to event viewer and take a look for yourself, I can guarantee you that there will be at least a few errors.
Bowing out. We’re getting into dead-horse territory.
Funny you are.
Pills are machined from rod.
Yes, machining (taking material off from rod) is more expensive when you take off more material.
East is East and West is West……Must I go on?
Ah ok, I misunderstood you. You are talking about the Windows OS upgrade process. I was just talking about day-to-day operation of the same installed system OS (regarding PCs).
I suggest you go take a computer engineering degree, and then maybe you will understand why there are only 2 (or 3 if you count linux) operating systems used by 99.9% of the world.
An OS is the largest most complex piece of software that runs on any computer or device.
I guess it’s a bit hard for you to comprehend why it’s so complex if you don’ know how it uses the billions of transistors in a processor.
Education is something you have to seek for yourself, so if you are really interested in how computers work and why an OS can get screwed up so easily, go to university You will learn a lot, I guarantee you.
Anyway, you’ve derailed this thread enough, so I’m just going to stop replying.
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PS - a hollowed out pill is made by removing metal using a drill or lathe, it requires more work and waste material than leaving it solid. That’s another thing that you could learn with a bit of education
Oh yeah, day to day it is perfectly fine, it is OS updates which often cause issues (or make preexisting background issues apparent)
And not just windows, most other OSes or software as well, as with your experience on your ipad.
Functions become deprecated, programs stop working correctly, processes use abnormal amounts of resources, and hundreds of other issues can arise.
It is impossible to test all possible scenarios of software and hardware, so it’s fairly common that a new update causes a problem unintentionally, especially since updates “stack” on top of eachother and over time become a big mess.
This isn’t apple or microsoft or some other company purpousefully reducing performance, this is simply software that was there before not behaving correctly with the new update that has been stuck on top of it.
This is one of the reasons why it’s recommended to clean install OSes every few years, or when you’re having serious issues with an OS or program a clean install almost always fixes it.
Unfortunately it seems that the other guy isn’t capable of looking up benchmarks for himself and would rather just blame the device or company for his inexperience 
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For a long time people also kept making up conspiracy theories about a company called Nvidia saying that their drivers purpousefully decreased performance on older graphics cards.
Then, some people tested half a dozen drivers, old to new, and found that there was actually a performance INCREASE over time, not decrease.
The decrease was from people who had badly maintained OSes, who had not clean installed in a long time, build up of bloatware, and other stuff like that.
Nitecores. I like mine. No issues. Tip 2017 has daily mode, check manual and you can change mode to not have the timer. planned obsolescence is real.