I am saying if I found a Chinese Light that was the same in price as a Maglite, I would try one, just to see how it modded. I don’t know if I would keep using it, but I would try it.
I also corrected my post to read type II ano. Thought I wrote II, but I wrote III. Sorry.
In 2001 my company took all of it’s plastics molding to China. The new plant there was exactly that, New. All new machines, all new building. Some of management were permitted (forced) to go to China, to see the operation. What I know for sure: There were catwalks in the whole building. There were “Guards” on those catwalks patrolling with sub-machine guns. The people worked 16 hour days and they never left the building. There was a seperate area with cement cubicles and the workers ate and slept there. That was their life! If that’s OK in China, then Fine. But I’ll be go*damned if we can compete with SLAVE LABOR, in any other country!!!
How do I know? Because when management came back, we had a very long meeting (a meeting where we drew the plant layout and where the machine gun guards were and where the cement cubicles were and everyone who had come back said the same thing), about what we could do, (Including closing our newly opened operations in China), because we were Appalled at the slavery there. Of course, the big owners (who were foreigners), told us to keep quiet or loose our jobs. I lost my job for pushing the issue with the owners.
How's that for a FU***ng rant!
Same here. With carpal tunnel and tennis elbow thrown in, tail switches now are an ergonomic horror. The only light now that's comfortable is a C cell Mag. Thank God they still make 'em, of course mine are all top fuel dragsters!
Rich
my apologies. i meant Hong Kong has subsidized shipping, not mainland China. this has been discussed before in another thread, so i knew this, but i misspoke.
Nice to see someone awake.
Apart from their attempt at socialism and human rights, there is nothing wrong with China.
There are no slaves, they are free to go somewhere else and work for another company.
And it sounds like they exagerrated the story when telling you, guns are very restricted in China and normal guards don't have them. The only time I've seen guns in the street in China is on guards moving large amounts of money (and they had shotguns).
I've only seen guards with sub-machine guns in the UK...
SMGs are merely a matter of money and influence - in every country.
Let's hope they won't ban torches like they did ban firearms.... then again, on second thought, I wouldn't trust anybody but myself with firearms.
Old-Lumens
Was that an exaggeration? Did you really see armed men patrolling a manufacturing facility? I'm telling you right now, if any flashlight I'm considering came from a place like that . . . . well . . .well . . . well, I'd be danged upset.
I was going to boldly proclaim with indignant pride that I would never buy from a company like that. The problem is; I probably already have.
partoftheproblemFoy
My direct boss, who was one of the ones who went, was a man who you would have believed. We had known each other for several years. He was not the type of person to exaggerate or lie about things. I completely trust his word and the word of the others who were there. He said there were men in the catwalks with guns, small machine gun type and pistol type guns. I believe him. As far as the people being able to come and go as pleased, that was not the feeling taken from there. The people lived there and worked there. They went from the work area to the living area and no more. They did not wander around and the guards watched their moves at all times.
This was not secret stuff, it was injection molded plastics. Nothing secretive about that. If I'm wrong, then so be it, but the people were not paid for their work. They were clothed and fed. One of the Chinese controllers stated that it was better for them in the factory, than in the streets. That feeding and clothing them was better than they would get on their own.
Now I have nothing against slavery, I just feel that we can't compete against it in the marketplace. No overhead except for food and clothing, guards and bullets. We can't produce anything cheap, since we pay our workers. It's a no win scenario.
foyiamabiggerpartoftheproblemthananyoftherestofyouandiknowitandidontcare -JV
Slavery is illegal in China. So either you're totally wrong or your company worked with a crime syndicate. In any case your argument has no merit.
The only reason poor people from the countryside come to work in the factories is so that they can send money back to their families. So if they aren't getting paid then they would have no reason to stay or even go there in the first place.
It's still wrong.
The companies, like DX, pays HK Post for bulk mail service but I don't know the exact details of their contracts. And why would they subsidize it? To increase profits of factories in another country? (For all purposes they are different countries). And taxes are low or non-existant in HK so they don't have huge amounts to spend on useless things unlike the Western countries.
Your clueless ramblings don't add anything to the discussion in this thread either, just like in atleast three other threads in the last 24 hours.
Try to start arguing for a change or be quiet. And who wrote that China is a model state for the world? And what taxpayer money is going to China these days? I thought all the Western taxypayer aid was going to dictators in Africa...
okay. i guess i'm misinformed on that. i don't know how that explains why a bunch of things i've bought from HK said "subsidized air" during checkout or on the invoice. maybe they meant cross subsidies, where they charge more to ship for certain customers and less for others. anyway, i'll take your word for it.
but try to remember that the original point that i was trying to make wasn't about shipping. it was about how China was guilty of using subsidies to give some of their industries an unfair advantage in the marketplace - which they certainly do (e.g. VAT rebates) - but they aren't the only ones, and that those of us in the US shouldn't go pointing fingers when the US was as guilty as anyone else. that was the point i was trying to make. maybe i got some of the details wrong, but i think the broad strokes are correct. i guess i'm more of a big picture guy than a details guy.
Very interesting thread, some quality ranting in here!
On topic:
Would not buy from a manufacturer accused (with proof) of slavery. However, I would find it more difficult to draw the line between manufacturers, who pay only a little OR too little to workers...
Badly paid jobs exist everywhere but I believe there is no such thing as minimum wage in China?
How much was the minimum again in US, can you remember?
If you have proof of slavery then send it to the police since it would be illegal.
Minimum wages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_in_China_(PRC)
Naturally I have no proofs of whatsoever.
Just speculating since there are some small scale examples even in here...
For example, a foreign restaurant owner had been employing too foreign man with too low / almost none -wage and limitations to their free time or something like that. Usually this kind of cases of slavery or better called trafficking are connected with prostitution.
US minimum wage varies by state. Federal mandated minimum is $7.25 per hour. California, where i live, minimum is $8. i think the highest is Washington $9.04. some jobs are considered exempt, like if you're a college student and you're working in the school office they can pay you less. exempt jobs usually have different tax requirements so it kind of tends to even out.
Chinese lights are like Vegas. Most of the time you lose but sometimes you win and that keeps you going.
For example, I bought several lights from DX and I spent about $50. The only light that has been reliable was my $11 Rominsen RC-G2. Basically I paid $50 for it. For that money I could have bought a Fenix or Eagletac or Klarus or something really good. For $11 the RC-G2 is great, for $50, I would be a little disappointed. Of course 15 years ago, that would have blown away the Surefires they were selling. It’s only money.
Ok, thanks. Did not know it was by state.
In here we have different minimums by different unions. I believe they are somewhere around 10$.
Ok, first of all this is a RANT thread, so rant away mfm.
Slavery isn't legal in China - but does it exist in China? I bet it does. Don't call it slave labor, call it free labor. Our people were told by the Chinese people that ran the place, that the people worked for food and a place to live, because they wanted to. They would starve otherwise, since there was no food or social services. Their families lived there in the cubicles, lived there, cooked there, ate there. etc.
Now, maybe all that is bunk, but why have a meeting with all of management when they got back, to discuss what could be done to stop what they saw?
Why do all these rich owners move manufacturing to China anyhow? Cost of living, little or no regulation, low or no wages, no benefits, etc. If it were not dirt cheap to manufacture there, no one would bring all their companies there. The number One way to attract business is to have dirt cheap labor, where the owners do not have to pay all the SS & Medicare & Disablilty & benefits that they have to pay in the USA. It's common sense and it's been told over and over that these are the reasons for going there.
Maybe you are living well there, in a good job, making lots of money. Good for you. I truely wish you the very best, unless you are the boss over people working for little to nothing, just to survive, if that is so, then I wish nothing good for you, for doing that to others.
What I hate is that my country has forsaken me and people like me, for cheap Mexican and Chinese (and dozens of other countries), labor and no regulations, rules, health care, etc. Now I work minimum wage, but my taxes are still the same, I have no benefits and I have no health care, my food costs are still rising, my utilities are still rising and now my SS and Medicare may not be there, so I can starve to death in my old age. That is my rant and if you don't link it Tough! I don't really care about that. I am still an American and I can't find a dammed thing made in America and I have to either buy from China or go without in many cases and that's my rant too! If some of what I say is overboard, Tough! This is still a free forum and until the Admin kicks me off, I will rant in my rant thread!
I do not blame the Mexican, or Chinese, or any other people. The laborers around the world are the ones to get the shaft. No matter how you look at it, it's the lower class people that produce everything fo the upper class and that's life. I hate it with a passion. It grinds me down every day, but that is life. Always has been, always will be. It's still my right to rant about it... So far anyhow....... I feel for everyone out there who has to struggle to exist. Not struggle to pay for the $250,000 house, or the $50,000 car, or the nice clothes, but for the people all over the world struggling to just be able to eat, stay warm and have have no hope of health care or any of that. I'm fortunate that we paid for our house and our car long ago, because they will heve to do for our old age, but at least we have them for the moment.