For me, that sounds as if EaglyEye did not want to do the SE with the forum, because they were afraid of having lots of work for only a few geeks, and earning little money. Now they realise, that those geeks are far more than they expected, and have the reputation to pull others into buying stuff- and so Eagleeye wants to get back on the train again. Hard learned lesson, EagleEye. Next time better take the risk doing something only for reputation.
And, by the way- a chinese brand rebelling against copying design? Really, are you all kidding?
I can feel for him a little bit, especially if it’s true that banggood didn’t communicate the manufacturer change to them. We don’t want to get a bad reputation with our vendors and manufacturers.
From what Bugsy said EagleEye was indeed aware they had competition. It helped EagleEye actually respond and stop being quite as slow as they originally were.
This issue is like the knife clone issues. I think that until your patents are approved you’re going to have a heck of a time doing anything about it. It’s a tube light with features found on other lights (pretty much no part of the light has a new, unique design feature never before used), so I’m not exactly sure what you were able to patent about the design.
While I do feel sorry for your loss of sales for the group buy (because I think you guys make good products for the most part), you failed to supply the demands of the market in a timely fashion, under the false assumption that we were locked into purchasing through you. Unfortunately for you the market is full of companies to choose from, and one of them was willing to supply the design we wanted in the time frame we wanted.
Instead of hurting yourselves even more by reacting badly, I suggest looking at it as a learning experience. Working with us here can usually benefit your company in the long term. Your designs and brand recognition improve because of the free R&D and testing we provide and threads about the lights, you’re guaranteed sales (sometimes in the hundreds of lights), and you get feedback about the design from people who’ve handled hundreds if not thousands of lights to compare against.
The downside is that we are picky about being listened to. Nothing we ask for is impossible, and that has been proven over and over. Come to the table with an open ear and a desire to deliver what we’re asking for in a reasonable time frame and you can sell us thousands of dollars worth of lights in a very short period of time.
My humble opinion on this topic; (disclaimer: this is an opinion, not necessarily 100% factual)
Just from listening in on how these group buys have gone over the last 1-2 years, I think there is a difference in culture that has caused this to come about. The Chinese business model (it appears), relies on the company showing “good faith” that they will work with the customer to reach the overall objective. Many times we get samples back from theses manufacturers that are no where NEAR what we originally wanted. After the first set of samples, we come back to the table, tell them the specifications again, they modify the product, and ship samples back to us. These second samples are a little bit closer to what was originally asked for. We come back to the table again, ask for the same specifications we originally wanted, they modify the product, ship more samples, and hope it is close enough to satisfy the requirements. This usually happens 2, 3 or even 4 times before we finally have the product that we have been asking for since the beginning. It seems be more of a cat and mouse game; how close can we (Eagle Eye) make this flashlight, so that we don’t have to remake the entire flashlight, yet they will still buy it.
Western business culture (and I can only speak for what I have seen in the United States) is this; here are the specifications, if you can’t build it within a REASONABLE about of time and money, I will find someone who will. It took Eagle Eye 6 months to get the flashlight close to our specifications, while it only took Manker 1 month to go from nothing at all, to a finished product.
I can understand some of Mr. Song’s frustration because the company was making changes to the product each time we told them the specifications were not met. But it just took too long. Whether that was Eagle Eye or Banggood’s fault, I do not know. But regardless, Manker did everything and MORE in 1 month compared to Eagle Eye’s 6 months. And we still used Banggood, so that very well may rule them out as the broken link in the chain. Odds are, Eagle Eye took too long, so we found a manufacturer that would provide a product to our specifications, faster.
Lesson to be learned, Mr. Song; listen to your customers and give them what they want instead of offering samples that do not meet the specifications. If the first samples were 100% correct the FIRST time, we would already be talking about a new group buy with you.
I’m just a reader/member here, not involved in arranging group buys except as a buyer and maker of suggestions.
Few thoughts, then I’ll shut up.
That sounds like a real problem — not one BLF people can solve.
Next time, maybe copy every message to the supplier instead of trusting BangGood will forward messages and replies.
_
Nomination for new banner headline for commercial sellers to read:
And don’t change the product — no substitutions after the sale is agreed to — and that includes being responsible for the parts you subcontract.
We need to say sorry for not tell Mr.song we choose another manufacturers to make the BLF A6.
because of they can't make the drivers we need, the A6 is so amazing,the driver is the most important thing, not the apperance. and I don't think this is first by you, maybe X6 is your first but A6 I don't think so.
you can't get noctigon copperboard but manker can also a reason, and comparing professional and fast feedback, we choose to manker.
We still want to cooperate with you, as you make some creative lights and we promote to the members .
Mr. Song Sheng
On 1st post of this thread, there is chronology what was happening and the reason why we switch to other manufacturer, actually Eagle Eye was our 1st choice.
If Eagle Eye have different version what happened during the process, you can clarify it here.
I understand the law in China is changing rapidly (and I know the history of the USA since independence — the US did not protect anything and people in the US stole from European writers and inventors for a long time, while building up from an iron age colonial farm culture to an industrialized culture. Only after the USA had anything to protect, then the USA enacted patent/copyright laws.
————- For reference, look at this kind of material, lots of it online now ———-
I think that as Mr. Song himself admits, the fact that Eagle Eye doesn’t currently have a patent on this design makes most of this discussion a moot point.
But patent status notwithstanding, the other possible issue here would be Mr. Song’s mention of some kind of moral violation by allegedly copycatting or counterfeiting their brand. In my opinion, the only way this could be the case is if we tried to slap the Eagle Eye brand on our light or make modifications using their brand name when they didn’t manufacture it or agree to our modifications. But that clearly isn’t the case here given that it is clearly labeled “BLF Special Edition” and doesn’t contain the Eagle Eye brand anywhere or make any claims to be an Eagle Eye product.
