Well I completely disagree with that. Its pretty notable, the difference between a 4 chip and an 8 chip. Of course runtime suffers, when I was carrying just an 8 chip Convoy and I had another battery on a longish hike, I’d swap out the battery once it goes down to a 4 chip Convoy’s output Although that was the old S2, which was a bit throwy-er. Since then I’ve always had something with even more output than an 8 chip Convoy in the same size package, so I’ve always taken that.
If you want more power, get the BLF A6. If you want more throw get the upcoming BLF X6 v2. I think the unadonized A6 would be my choice if I had to choose one single emitter light that style. Of course the A6 can get hotter, which is one of the reasons I’d choose it…
There is no answer on “too hot” for heat production without specifics. The amount of heat varies greatly depending on mostly what the outside temperature is, how you use it and how heat sensitive you are. In the summer an 8 chip Convoy gets pretty hot, outside that, I’m not really affected. In fact right now I feel it doesnt produce enough heat to keep my hand pleasantly warm, its 39 outside.
It boils down to this: if you use it outside in a cold environment in your hand, its really not warm enough, if you use it in a hot environment maybe its too hot if you run it on max all the time, and if you are irresponsible and you leave lights on max without supervision, don’t get a 8 chip version ever.
This is definitely not true. From 4 chips to 8 chips, the current increased from 1.4A to 2.8A. If you look at the Cree LED spec. it will probably increase the lumen output by a factor of 1.7, not by a factor of 2 but still significantly more. I have verified this by using the P60 drop in with 4 and 8 7135. The LED is XP-L V5. I am ordering a S2+ and a pill to test out. I can report back once I got them.
I agree. I have replied to flydiver’s original comments directly essentially says the same thing. I did some measurement of P60 drop-in with different number of 7135s on my homemade IS and the result supports that.
I understand the Convoy S2+ provides a low voltage warning at 3.0V ± 0.1V, then continues to produce usable light down to 2.5V.
Can someone tell me what that low voltage warning at 3.0V looks like. Also does the light close down below 2.5V ?
I’m using hybrid Panasonic NCR18650 batteries which should be relatively safe but are unprotected.
Also, does the same apply to my Convoy C8 ?
Thanks in advance for any info in this regard.
My two S2+’s both flash and drop to low when they hit 3.0v. That’s about when I swap batteries; usually because when I use those lights, I need max output. Generally, around the house I’ll use it on low or medium, but have about a dozen other lights I also use, so….
My first S2+ has 8 7135 chips, and it does get dang hot on high, roughly 800-850 lumens, it is a T6-3B and my favorite tint for anything but a long distance thrower/spotlight.
My second S2+ is a Simon standard 3x7135 and the output on all levels is absolutely, unequivocally lower. Still a dang bright light This one obvious has longer run times. I can get a good 2.5-3 hours on high from that one. Only about a solid hour to hour 15 on high with the 8x7135.
I havent tested either on low or medium, they seemingly last forever.
The Convoy lights in general are excellent in all areas, annodizing, threads, machining, build quality and design, etc. The S2+ specifically is awesome because it’s about as small as an 18650 light can be. It is extremely versatile, even though it is a very floody light, the light output is always enormous and lights up everything in front of it. “Wall of light” is how it is often described, and with 8x7135 this is absolutely true.
As an EDC light, spare light, one you can keep in a day bag or BOB; it really can’t be beat. All of this without even mentioning that the cost is typically always under $20 shipped.
I am not saying the 3x and 4x 7135 are the same brightness as the 6x and 8x 7135 drivers, but do not discount them for giving a great amount of light for the runtime.
For a first light from Convoy a 4x 7135 is a great balance of light and runtime, the low and medium are also very nice. On a 8x 7135, the low is twice as high as the 4x…
I was initially skeptical of the Convoy lights, just as many are. Over the long haul, the quality is consistent and for the money, it is a waste of time to look further if you think one of the Convoy lights will fit what you are looking for. Time is money, spend two hours searching the net to save $2? Not me, I know what I am getting with a Convoy, ordered and done, use the two extra hours to do something else…
I have four S2+ lights, three from Simon (black, grey and blue) and one from another vendor (red from maybe GB). The first one was the standard 3*7135 but since then I purchased the *4 & 8 to see the differences. Yes, the *8 is brighter than the *3. However, the trade off as I’ve mentioned is run time. It all depends upon your need. For all intents and purposes I would suggest that most folks, for most of their needs would find that the *3 on low (about 25 lumens) is sufficient with a run time approaching two days on a quality 2600mAh 18650. And if low on a *3 isn’t sufficient for a particular task then medium or high would very likely do the job, again with longer run time.
That isn’t to suggest anyone stay away from more chips, just giving some perspective from personal use. I have two different EDC packs that I carry depending upon the circumstances. In each is a *3 because for the purpose of EDC I want max run time. Yet it still gives me three excellent options of light level with medium being approx. 200 lumens and high 500 lumens (according to what Simon has on the website). So 25, 200 and 500 is a nice range with 500 being pretty usable if you need a bright light for a task. I’ll bring the *8 camping in the deep woods really only because it’s red and I try to have all of my gear in a very bright color (usually orange). And I have extra batteries and other lights anyway.
Point is that a *3 is plenty bright for most tasks so don’t feel you’re being short-changed if that’s what you purchase. Near 500 lumens is still very bright! YMMV
Now if Simon came out with an orange S2+ I’d be on it like Donkey Kong!
I don’t haven A6… but from the reviews and videos I’ve watched, I’d say the major difference is the driver/UI and max output.
The A6 has many more options within the UI, which may be confusing for some, and obviously its turbo output is re-donkulous.
HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER, in practical purposes, the higher outputs of an A6 is mostly going to be overkill. What will 1600 lumens do in the same application that 500 or 800 lumens wont? In the types of environments where both would likely be used, sometimes less light actually allows you to see more.
The A6 is still a hot-rod of a light and totally cool.
No, very wrong here, A6 has a higher high AND a lower low, better for both sides of this argument of low vs high, except possible durability/quality, that is yet unknown and there were some quality issues at first, but mine works great still.
Also, the people saying 3 chips are better than 8 are doing the same thing that people on the other end of the spectrum saying 3 chips is too dim are: personal preference recommendation. Not many are EVER going to NEED any increased runtime a 3 chips vs an 8 chips low is going to give you, likewise not many are ever going to NEED the brightness difference 8 chips vs 3 chips is going to give you. YOU may have a preference and a need, just like I have a preference and a need to light up the whole forest at night But really, its all just preference.
Bottom line, under what circumstances are you going to use it? In the extremely rare group that ultra long running on one battery matters, get the A6 instead for moonlight mode. In the more common “blast it with light” group, likewise, A6, or 8 chips. In the “toss it around, backup light” a Convoy I’d say is a better choice, and 3 or 8 chips isn’t going to matter as much as your preference for output amount, again unless you are in an exclusive group of long distance hikers/packers.
I always keep extra batteries and lean towards the high output light: I have actually used the warmth from lights as a handwarmer many times, boy is it a nice option to have in the snow/cold, and the higher the better, Convoy 8 chips is barely there!
Build quality: S2+ is much better manufactured. The S2+ is a pleasure to use. The A6 has a laundry list of niggling issues, from anodized finish to clips to battery rattle to tailcap switches.
Output: The A6 blows the S2+ away as far as overall brightness and throw. The A6 also blows the S2+ away in under-brightness (moonlight and low levels).
Beam profile: The S2+ has a beautiful beam, medium size hot spot feathering to a very smooth spill. The A6 has a tighter hot spot, but suffers from more artifacts and ringiness.
Tint: I love my S2+’s 4C “hint of golden sunrise” tint. I like my A6’s 3D tint and 1A tint (the 5A tint is a little too warm for my taste). Because tint is a very personal preference, I would call this a draw.
UI: I’ve got the customized 3-mode (5–30–100%) on both of my S2. Nice and simple. Perfectly spaced output levels. One of the S2 is running on 3x7135 chips and one of them is running on 8x7135 chips. I much prefer the lower output levels of the 3x7135 set up. And what is there to say about the A6’s UI: it is superb, it is intricate, it is a Maserati in a Volkswagen world. Which is better? I think most people would prefer having the options offered by the A6, but a sizable minority would favor the simplicity of the S2+.
Personally, I use my S2+ flashlights much more than my BLF A6’s. I like the S2+’s feel, quality, simplicity, and beams better.
Geez, I really have to quit reading these threads because you guys are too convincing. Now I’m thinking that I should still get a S2+, or maybe a couple, and this is while I’m debating between a Convoy C8 or a XinTD C8 and waiting for my Kronos Al. X6 & X5 to arrive next week.
Well, I did preface that by saying I did not own one… soo… I tried. I think the basic idea of what I was saying remains the same… the A6, for some people, may be too far into the extremes of Low and High. There are times that moonlight low is too low, and turbo high is too high. In those cases, it offers nothing that any other similar light does. Like the S2+.
I’m going to suggest that it is a matter of priority that dictates amount of 7135 chips that are preferable. For someone that EDC’s a light for work at night the need for maximum brightness might be the priority for a variety of reasons. Conversely, someone that EDC’s a light for emergency preparedness the priority may be maximum run time. It comes down to the simple statement that you don’t really need something…until you need it. One of my personal priorities is emergency preparedness. With this in mind, the Convoy S2+ with 3*7135 is more than adequate for a plethora of needs. With a range of (approx.) 25, 200 and 500 lumens it covers many bases. For a majority of tasks 25 lumens is sufficient thereby providing a maximum of run time. However, on the other hand, being able to blast out a 500 lumen SOS or strobe to attract attention in an emergency is a big plus that can’t be over-stated.
Now that doesn’t mean that the 8*7135 is a bad choice at all. And if short duration/max lighting is a priority then this is a fine choice. I personally have two *3 and one each of the *4 and *8. My preference, based on my priorities are the two *3’s. I like my *8 but if I were to do it over again I’d go with another *3 in that color.
I own several S2+ with 7135 x8. The colour of the light (tint) was my main interest. I have to say that I personally see no use in moonlight-modes and ultra-low light modes. If I want moonlight, I switch off my flashlight :bigsmile: .
Apart from personal preferences, one may have a look at “specs”.
I got the “Lumen” from different Banggood-pages (S2+). I will use them as “approximates”.
What we can see is that luminous efficacy decreases with increasing current (thats nothing new, I know). But the effect is not that dramatic using x3…x6. There is a little step between x6 and x8.
So, if I had to find a compromise between runtime and light output, I would suggest x6.
While effiency is one measure of evaluating value, I’d suggest that what the user is really interested in are how bright the flashlight is and how long will it run.
Rough estimate based on a theoretical 2800 mAh battery and theoretical constant drawdown (which won’t happen in the real world because of voltage drops and driver inefficiencies). These run times are presented purely for academic purposes, real world run times would depend on how you define “run time” - typically manufacturer’s use a 50% of maximum output as their criteria.
A more refined table, including all of the output levels and their respective run times would be ideal for the user to assess which set up suits his individual needs the best. However, given the subjective nature of perceived brightness (how bright is “bright”?), the above table is probably a good enough reference for people to consider their needs. Besides, the average person’s mind tends to rebel when confronted with too much information.
For those interested, a basic calculation can be done to get an idea of the run time for the various settings of a flashlight. Keep in mind that it is an estimate due to various factors. The following formula was provided courtesy of another member (my apologies for not remembering who) and I put it on my own board for reference.
As a benchmark example based on a 2600mAh 18650:
7135*3:
High 1050mA = 2 hours 47 minutes
Medium 420mA = 6 hours 2 minutes
Low 52.5mA = 49.5
7135*4:
High 1400 mA = 2 hours 25 minutes
Medium 560mA = 5 hours 4 minutes
Low 70mA = 37 hours 14 minutes.
Keep in mind that actual run times will probably 90% of the specs listed above.
Although that was the old S2, which was a bit throwy-er. Since then I’ve always had something with even more output than an 8 chip Convoy in the same size package, so I’ve always taken that.