wight catchup

First, this thread is from 2018?

Second, where did I “pile on”? I have always made it a point to not attack anyone and even if I didn’t have that policy, trust me, there are people that would of been WAY ahead of you, I always liked you. lol.

If you are referring to the statement I made about the firmware in 2018 being too buggy, keep in mind that is a statement from 2018 and far as I remember the early implementations did in fact have some bugs at the time. There were several versions of firmware floating around trying to solve the issue as I remember, I have no idea which one I was referring to at that time.

Also keep in mind that was about the time I built my last clicky light, I never did anything else with it simply because I never worked on another clicky light. To this day I swapped some LED’s in my EDC and that it the most “modding” I have done since pretty much when that post was made.

Remember, I was working on lights destined for production in factories, even small bugs were a quick way to cause massive issues in a production environment so I was forced to be picky.

I am SURE it is working by now, I just don’t mess with flashlights anymore. I always thought you did good work, there are always bugs in the early days. It was nothing personal if I was even referring to your firmware.

I am sorry if I gave you the wrong impression or slighted you in some way, that was never my intention.

Not into programming but I believe that the Wildtrail D80 (with the help of TheOnlyDocc who went MIA after that) uses Flintrock firmware and I think it works great and flawless :slight_smile:

Fair enough TA. It was a long a time, but, I quit working on it even longer ago. 1.7.1 was posted at Christmas of 2017, so 10 months earlier than your comment, and it still works. I developed in the open before that exactly to get this idea available for anyone interested and show proof of principle within a popular driver series, and ended up pressing on to make it actually I think a pretty robust build in that driver. Anyway, I didn't have anything against you in those days either, to say the least, and it's good to see you still around. The comment was a little sloppy, but it happens, so no hard feelings there.

Yeah, ok, that's not helping, the fact remains you haven't reported any bugs in the HD thread (at all actually), particularly that I didn't know about and already fix. ;) But you clarified that, so we're good.

I took it farther than I ever meant to really, and wouldn't be ashamed if there were bugs (probably is SOMETHING), just didn't like the appearance of vague claims without specific reports.

In fact this all started in the "attiny development thread," and I did post simple proof of concept codes or snippets there I believe, I could dig one up, but I'm sure Flashy Mike's above serves quite well for that. He was in the middle of it all. It might or might not encompass everything I learned (tested) about pin states, fuses, watchdog details, brown out corruption, keeping voltage sense levels above pin stated threshold, shutting down quickly enough, etc which is relevant to the next point, but I'm sure it does work properly. The fact is the principle is simple, but there are a lot of details that do really matter.

And on that note, to close the loop on a technical point that Tom Tom raised above. The cap is certainly not just a cap with a value. That's completely wrong. Many caps perform MUCH MUCH worse than their nominal specs at the temps we run lights at, which was the whole OTC problem to start with. I don't recall now if that's reduced capacitance, increased leakage, or I think a lot of both. A 100uF ceramic cap will do much worse than a 47uF tantalum cap as I recall, once heated. I tried a stack of ceramic caps I had as my first experiment. I ran real test on sleep power consumption, estimating current draw and times for pin state reads, ADC reads, etc, and checked capaciticance specs for real temps involved. In the end it's slightly overkilled indeed. I got over 10s (I think 12 even) of sleep at room temp, after optimizing a lot, figuring out the V-chip issue, pin state details, etc, but that's with only 1/4 second timing resolution and room temp. It will drop almost in half at 1/8s timing resolutions (twice as many wakes), and heat still impacts this cap too, just less. That said it's still certainly plenty safe, and I know lexel used some cheaper caps with some luck. I specced it for modders. If you're spending 10 hours ordering parts for building a light, no point saving $1 on a cap. I think the right way to go cheaper is just with a lower capacticance, tantalum cap, but even then, possibly not just any random one.

I also noticed you echoed the point about "universal drivers:

https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~toykeeper/flashlight-firmware/trunk/files/head:/Flintrock/bistro-hd/configs

It took me literally about 3 minutes to modify a configuration for the Q8 version (the last one I added), and it flashed and worked. It's what HD was all about. Of course it was still one UI, but mostly only because that's all I included.

I will be honest, I remember you working on the OTSM and I remember trying an early version that had some bugs. After that I remember you kept working on it but I could not keep up with the development and figured I would try it again after you had the bugs worked out and I worked on another clicky light.

Sadly that day never came since I only worked on e-switch lights after the GT and then stuff happened that caused me to basically quit flashlights entirely.

I had always planned on updating my EDC with a OTSM firmware but still have not felt like doing it since it works good enough for my needs as it is.

Rest assured, it was nothing personal and I did appreciate your work on the firmware. Life simply happened and I never had a chance to actually try the updated firmware.

Glad to hear it! This is what I saw. And again, it's not like my personal worth hinges on this in the slightest. I just felt a lot of things were getting said forming an image without an actual truth behind it.

Very nice, I was sent one of those awhile back when I was working on the WT90 and it does indeed work great! I always wondered what firmware/driver it used but never pulled it apart.

Actually, writing this all now, I do have to say, I wonder how well a tantalum cap would do for OTC... It would be a little funny if in the end the thing that made OTSM work would actually just make OTC work anyway. Still OTSM is far less finicky, not bleeder dependent, no calibration, etc, once you do setup the software details, so personally I'd still prefer it. But actually a tantalum OTC might do pretty ok.

Oh, I am sure that the OTSM is far less finicky and works better, that is why I was so big on the idea back in the day :wink:

I just never had a chance to try the finished version.

tantalum caps would improve things, IIRC someone tried this and it was a lot better but did still vary from driver to driver due to variances in the MCU’s parasitic drain IIRC. In fact I think I ordered some of the caps to test but once again, never had a a reason to do it.

How about X8L capacitors ? Like this one for example

5% initial tolerance, about 1% between 4 and 3V, ~1.5% between 0 and 60°C
Would it even need calibrating ?

Probably. As Ace reminds me, even parasitic drain of the MCU impacts it, and I'm now recalling this maybe even produces some of the temp dependence. Been awhile, but the R in that RC of OTC is I think entirely uncontrolled? OTC isn't in my circuit diagrams explicitly, but that's how I remember it. He's probably got it correct, better, but still not great. I didn't actually use many OTCs personally though. I had maybe two lights with it, so not a lot of data points.