True Color Rendition (TCR)..........

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Perception
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I give the dedomed Ti3 a TCR rating of 2.5. I give the Mini2 a TCR rating of 9!

If we average our data sets, we get a mean TCR of 5.5 for the Ti3, and 7 for the Mini2. We now know that the Mini2 is clearly the better light!

nottawhackjob
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Perception wrote:
I give the dedomed Ti3 a TCR rating of 2.5. I give the Mini2 a TCR rating of 9!

If we average our data sets, we get a mean TCR of 5.5 for the Ti3, and 7 for the Mini2. We now know that the Mini2 is clearly the better light!

Really, that low on the dedomed Ti3? Was it in NW from ThruNite?

Assuming yer being serious could ya ask somebody to give their TCR?

Btw are you using decent sunlight as a baseline for the comparisons?

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Scallywag
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There is no objective measurement for this so-called standard so it’s useless.

What’s great is if someone tells me CRI, R9, CCT, and duv I know exactly how it’s gonna look. I’ve learned what I like from those measurements and can appropriately choose, sight unseen.

nottawhackjob
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Scallywag wrote:
There is no objective measurement for this so-called standard so it’s useless.

What’s great is if someone tells me CRI, R9, CCT, and duv I know exactly how it’s gonna look. I’ve learned what I like from those measurements and can appropriately choose, sight unseen.

Where does it say it’s supposed to be a standard like CRI?

It’s a subjective rating system better supported by hopefully consensus.

You could use it with CRI,R9,CCT,duv, etc., butt since yer already happy that’s all that matters. You.

Btw it took awhile for you to really learn it, right? How many flashes later? Was it useless before that?

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

MtnDon
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nottawhackjob wrote:

Btw it took awhile for you to really learn it, right? How many flashes later? Was it useless before that?

CRI, had a learning curve, but not at all onerous. Plus, it is based on science, not a personal perception of what looks good to a bunch of humans who … well are human and have personal preferences which influence their choices, for everything, not just lighting and perceived colors.

Plus, we shouldn’t be arguing so I have nothing more to say on this

nottawhackjob
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MtnDon wrote:
nottawhackjob wrote:

Btw it took awhile for you to really learn it, right? How many flashes later? Was it useless before that?

CRI, had a learning curve, but not at all onerous. Plus, it is based on science, not a personal perception of what looks good to a bunch of humans who … well are human and have personal preferences which influence their choices, for everything, not just lighting and perceived colors.

Plus, we shouldn’t be arguing so I have nothing more to say on this

Well I suggest from now on if someone asks for your opinion (purely subjective) on a particular flash you should answer,…..

“I don’t have an opinion worthwhile to listen to. Look up the manufacturer’s CRI, etc., on that model. After all Bub, I’m just another human like you and the science here is all that matters.”

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Unheard
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I think Whacky presented nothing to argue about Smile . He had an idea, told us about it, and defended it. I find it ad hoc useless, but want to see where this thread is going. E.g., there are lots of interesting posts [from others Evil ].

Wink

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

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Unheard wrote:
I think Whacky presented nothing to argue about Smile . He had an idea, told us about it, and defended it. I find it ad hoc useless, but want to see where this thread is going. E.g., there are lots of interesting posts [from others Evil ]. Wink

Aren’t ya hittin’ the Jager kinda late even for U? LOL Shocked

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Unheard
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nottawhackjob wrote:
Aren’t ya hittin’ the Jager kinda late even for U? LOL Shocked

Oh, I can be the BLF idiot without alcohol (actually I’m abstinent).

You like Jägermeister?

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

nottawhackjob
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Unheard wrote:
nottawhackjob wrote:
Aren’t ya hittin’ the Jager kinda late even for U? LOL Shocked

Oh, I can be the BLF idiot without alcohol (actually I’m abstinent).

You like Jägermeister?

Hell no. That sheeeeiiiiiiitttttt is too dangerous. Shocked Beer (only)

I think it stays in yer system so long that a year later you can get a DUI. LOL

PS. BTW watts the TCR on that mini whatever yer holdin’ in your hand? Is it a dedomed Mini3?

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Unheard
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At least ;).

You mean the TrustFire L1? Scroll down to the last posting and … read Big Smile

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

nottawhackjob
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Unheard wrote:
At least ;).

You mean the TrustFire L1? Scroll down to the last posting and … read Big Smile

Ya know ya got a knack fer gettin me to buy things ya like. I like the looks of this mainly cuz of the button.

Just to humor me before I spring out the $$$$ cood ya give me a TCR on it? LOL LOL LOL LOL Shocked

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Unheard
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Same LED in the Minis and the L1. You gave it a 5, I’ll give it a CRI 75 and an angry blue.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

nottawhackjob
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Unheard wrote:
Same LED in the Minis and the L1. You gave it a 5, I’ll give it a CRI 75 and an angry blue.

Watt????? C’mon man don’t give me a Rommel Panzer retreat from a Patton deal here. LOL Shocked

TCR it for me.

Take the most familiar object you likely know typically in yer right hand; go out in the sunlight prolly tomorrow if today is too late. Note the colors. Then compare them to the flash rendition.

Do the pinks and purples for example compare favorably/unfavorably? That’s the TCR rating.

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Unheard
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7.5

What a coincidence that it’s CRI 75! Big Smile

Seriously, after my eyes did their balancing trick, the colors look ok. Like CRI 75 TCR 7.5

It’s still angry blue in the center (8000K+), has a yellow corona just below 5000K and spill around 6000K. Your TCR won’t tell you this.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

nottawhackjob
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Unheard wrote:
7.5

What a coincidence that it’s CRI 75! Big Smile

Seriously, after my eyes did their balancing trick, the colors look ok. Like CRI 75 TCR 7.5

It’s still angry blue in the center (8000K+), has a yellow corona just below 5000K and spill around 6000K. Your TCR won’t tell you this.

No butt the TCR succinctly and quickly did without going into your other details.

I now know that this flash with a TCR 7.5 prolly ain’t gonna cut it for me. Butt your’s is just one TCR opinion. I’d like to hear others. Consensus is better. Cuz ya know every flash is different.

Ok. Maybe I’ll get it anyway cuz yer German and Blaupunkt is proof that specs don’t mean everything. LOL Shocked

PS. Same thing goes for Pukas, ooops I mean Lucas. Shocked

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Unheard
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nottawhackjob wrote:
Maybe I’ll get it anyway […]

Don’t. It’s got exactly the same LED/optics like your Mini2 has. You gain nothing except that button and AAA compatibility.

But if you know how to mod it to a shaved SST-20, you’ll give it a 10.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

nottawhackjob
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Unheard wrote:
nottawhackjob wrote:
Maybe I’ll get it anyway […]

Don’t. It’s got exactly the same LED/optics like your Mini2 has. You gain nothing except that button and AAA compatibility.

But if you know how to mod it to a shaved SST-20, you’ll give it a 10.

Well ya know how much I like the Mini2’s general construction – that spectacular spill particularly.

Can ya change the optics? Maybe one with a built-in higher CRI? LOL Thumbs Up Beer

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Unheard
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All it takes is a 10mm MCPCB w/ SST-20, and you need to extend the wires some mm. The shaved LED fits under the optics.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

nottawhackjob
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Unheard wrote:
All it takes is a 10mm MCPCB w/ SST-20, and you need to extend the wires some mm. The shaved LED fits under the optics.

Beautiful. Thanx. Thumbs Up Beer

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

Unheard
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You’re welcome. Enjoy modding.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

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tint perception changes when the reference white balance changes

the blue and pink beams on the right side of the photos,
are from the exact same light, at different times of day

I give the sw45k a subjective personal preference score (TCR) of 10 during the day and 3 at night.

.

I have learned that the sw45k has a very high R9 CRI score, so I seek LEDs with similarly high R9 CRI scores (the red bar in the next images). The SST-20 also has high R9 CRI (above 80).

The sw45k has a very negative DUV score -0.0055.
I perceive this as Pink Tint, mainly when using daylight white as the reference

The SST-20 scores positive DUV of 0.0034, which to my eye is rather greenish, especially when observed from an incandescent white balance as a reference. I am not a fan of that LED’s Tint, despite the high R9 CRI spec…

I give the SST-20 4000k a subjective personal preference score (TCR) of 5 during the day and 0 at night.

Lightbringer
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BurningPlayd0h wrote:
That’s just an opinion on how likeable the tint is. Sunlight itself has a negative duv which is why there has been discussion of moving away from the BBL on ANSI charts.

Actually, it has a slight positive Duv, ie, is slightly greenish.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

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MtnDon wrote:
What we can agree on completely is if the thermometer indicates it is 70 degrees F, it is 70 F, no matter that she thinks it is a little too cool and I think it is just right. We know what 70 F is.

I wish it were that easy.

I got 3 thermometers (clock/thermometer, clock/thermometer/hygrometer, thermometer/hygrometer), and despite being within inches of each other, always have a consistent 5°F spread.

So I have no idea other than relatively what the true temperature is.

Bought a “precision” glass candy thermometer (long-ass ones at least 1’ long), tried a stable water/ice mixture and boiling water, and even that seemed “off” by 1 grad each.

Same applies with voltmeters, lumenometers, etc. Unless they’re NIST traceable, they’re just educated guesses.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

nottawhackjob
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Lightbringer wrote:
MtnDon wrote:
What we can agree on completely is if the thermometer indicates it is 70 degrees F, it is 70 F, no matter that she thinks it is a little too cool and I think it is just right. We know what 70 F is.

I wish it were that easy.

I got 3 thermometers (clock/thermometer, clock/thermometer/hygrometer, thermometer/hygrometer), and despite being within inches of each other, always have a consistent 5°F spread.

So I have no idea other than relatively what the true temperature is.

Bought a “precision” glass candy thermometer (long-ass ones at least 1’ long), tried a stable water/ice mixture and boiling water, and even that seemed “off” by 1 grad each.

Same applies with voltmeters, lumenometers, etc. Unless they’re NIST traceable, they’re just educated guesses.

Just curious. How consistent do ya find yer rectal ones? Shocked

Within one or two digrees? In any case you should prolly just assverage them.

PS. I just thot I’d ask cuz ya sound pretty anal about thermometers. LOL Thumbs Up Beer

“In many things in order to truly understand the small picture you have to understand the big picture first.”

True Color Rendition (TCR)/Simplified Definition: “On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest rating, a TCR will equate to what true colors you see in sunlight vs the same object’s colors you see when illuminated with a flashlight. The closer the two are, the higher the TCR rating will be.”

The TCR Reference Standard is the Walmart Ozark Trail OT 50L , Model No. 6103.
It has a TCR rating of ‘10’. $1.00 including batteries.

BurningPlayd0h
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Lightbringer wrote:
BurningPlayd0h wrote:
That’s just an opinion on how likeable the tint is. Sunlight itself has a negative duv which is why there has been discussion of moving away from the BBL on ANSI charts.

Actually, it has a slight positive Duv, ie, is slightly greenish.

Good catch, that’s what I meant (hence the interesting contrast with the lighting most people prefer) but I’m dumb and said the opposite!

jon_slider
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the DUV of sunlight is nominally 0.0032, almost identical to the SST-20 4000k charted above.

This is why that LED may not demonstrate a noticeable green tint, when daylight adapted

the DUV of incandescent is 0.0000, so from that reference, the Tint of sunlight is above the BBL, into the green zone

the LH351d and E21a also tend to have Tint above the BBL, in particular the cooler ones.

It makes sense to me that people that use lights during the day, will prefer Tints that are cooler and greener, more like daylight,

while people who use lights in darker ambient adaptation will appreciate warmer color temperatures and less green tints

sometimes it is useful to emulate sunlight, 5000k+
other times emulating incandescent can be useful 2700-3200k

I think it is helpful to match the color and tint of our flashlights to our ambient white balance

on the warm end, I like my artificial light to be about 500k cooler than ambient, so the beam stands out more easily. So when Im in 3000k ambient, I like a 3500k LED

===

it occurred to me that the idea behind the TCR (what people find subjectively pleasing) is contained in the Kruithof Curve

that is, a group of people were asked what color temperatures they like at different Lux, and the results are plotted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruithof_curve
basically, at lower intensity, people like warmer light

“For example, natural daylight has a color temperature of 6500 K and an illuminance of about 104 to 105 lux. This color temperature–illuminance pair results in natural color rendition, but if viewed at a low illuminance, would appear bluish.

At typical indoor office illuminance levels of about 400 lux, pleasing color temperatures are lower (between 3000 and 6000 K),

and at typical home illuminance levels of about 75 lux, pleasing color temperatures are even lower (between 2400 and 2700 K). ”

Unheard
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What makes the rosy tint so popular? I guess we all agree that a flashlight with a duv greater than the duv of the ambient light doesn’t look as nice as one with a duv lower than that. But why?

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

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Woodgrains look better with more of a reddish tint than a greenish or bluish tint. Skin looks better when pinkish than sickly green. Etc.

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

Unheard
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“looking better” is a substitution for “nicer” in the above context.

But ok, why is it looking better?

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

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