Minimum lumens to impare an intruder?

33 posts / 0 new
Last post

Pages

wahoowad
wahoowad's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 12/03/2012 - 22:50
Posts: 536
Location: VA
Minimum lumens to impare an intruder?

Among other deterrents ( J) ) I keep a light by my bedside table to investigate things that go bump in the night. Is there a standard acceptable minimum lumens expected to temporarily blind/blast an intruder with?

I know some of my bigger lights like my XIN TD C8 are very bright but have not looked at any of them directly while running. Most of my bedside lights are AA variety, some up around 115 lumens. Maybe more if I put a 14500 in them.

       
       
blueb8llz
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 11 min ago
Joined: 06/02/2012 - 01:16
Posts: 3199
Location: California

i think even 150 lumens is more than to disorient them in pitch black for very dark room.
but i personally use a 350 lumen light because this light has a pretty low low, and a quick access to instant strobe.
olight m20s

dazed1
dazed1's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 1 week ago
Joined: 05/31/2013 - 11:16
Posts: 1557

Аt least 500 for decent effect, most recommendetaions aint taking into account that some people have good eyes, and are alot less sensitive to strong lights then other, for example my mother can take a short strobe from 2 meters from my TK 75 (1 second) without any problems which is mindblowing to me, if i do the same thing, i see orange/purple for 1 min + so yea, 500 at least.

Fenix TK61 MOD> resistor, transistors, copper heatsink, Artic Cooling MX4, dedome, 3A > 5.7A ~ 1700 lumens > (600.000cd)

Ledsmoke
Ledsmoke's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 2 months ago
Joined: 08/08/2011 - 16:05
Posts: 1995
Location: Denmark

7K ? Wink

~ Ledsmoke ~

Dutch humor:

[quote=djozz]

 I do not think that the BLF-community ben

DayLighter
DayLighter's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 4 months ago
Joined: 11/29/2012 - 01:22
Posts: 2829
Location: New York City

Something definitely in the range of 3000+ lumens should startle anything that moves at night :bigsmile:
maybe something cheap and bright like TR-J18 or 9T6.. first you blind them with the light and then club it with the light J)

The only way to do a great work is to love what you do.

Firelight2
Firelight2's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 32 min ago
Joined: 04/08/2011 - 15:17
Posts: 5068
Location: California

How about a 4D incan maglite?

After you whack the intruder on the head with it, he’ll be quite stunned!

CRX
CRX's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 04/02/2013 - 15:27
Posts: 4243
Location: Scotland

NiWalker Nova MiniMax MM15 would do it

Old-Lumens
Old-Lumens's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 9 months ago
Joined: 11/04/2011 - 11:39
Posts: 7478
Location: Tyler, TX, USA

The best way to disorientate would be with a fast strobe of about 3,000 to 5,000 lumens. It's bright enough that the person's eyes cannot look anywhere close to it and the fast strobe will keep the eyes from adjusting to the light. You may get just a few seconds advantage that way, before the person just starts shooting blindly your way. I would think something that was a little more floody would be better, so you don't have to try to put a small spot directly on someone at close range, since it would be hard to follow a moving target.

Best would be a flash bang, but probably illegal most everywhere.

Remember to wear sunglasses.Tongue Out

My PayPal address: oldlumens (insert the @ sign here) gmail.com

My YouTube Flashlight Video Channel

The BLF Modding Links Thread 

http://imageshack.com/a/img922/1374/jQ2wdL.jpg

 

Tom E
Tom E's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 4 days ago
Joined: 08/19/2012 - 08:23
Posts: 15065
Location: LI NY

Heard a Spec Ops (Navy Seals) guy told a buddy of mine they look for a min of 600 lumens on strobe to temporarily disorient someone, allowing them time to subdue the person. I assume that's in close proximity for their usage.

This is why you want a quick access to a strobe mode if you believe in strobe mode for defensive purposes. I prefer quick strobe access this way, otherwise if it takes 3 secs or 6 clicks to get there, may be too late.

_the_
_the_'s picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 07/08/2011 - 06:22
Posts: 3647
Location: Finland

I think it's more about kcd (or actually lux at eye level). 600lm of normal flashlight beam might be enough, but 600lm of light bulb would not.

That being said, I'd use a >100kcd light. (either a thrower like K40, just hoping to aim well enough - or opting to use X60 which doesn't require so good aim - on strobe of course)

=the=

 

RaceR86
RaceR86's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 7 months ago
Joined: 02/22/2012 - 08:32
Posts: 3777
Location: Norway

DayLighter wrote:
maybe something cheap and bright like TR-J18 or 9T6.. first you blind them with the light and then club it with the light J)

Big Smile

BLF LED database – collaboration spreadsheet and latest news about where to buy LEDs
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/19342

AlexGT
AlexGT's picture
Offline
Last seen: 16 hours 51 min ago
Joined: 06/07/2012 - 17:39
Posts: 4648
Location: Texas

I think you only need .45 lead lumens :bigsmile:

WarHawk-AVG
WarHawk-AVG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 06:47
Posts: 5071
Location: H-Town

AlexGT wrote:
I think you only need .45 lead lumens :bigsmile:

Do they measure lumens in grains?

230 grains should do it Big Smile

VFMaddict
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: 06/03/2011 - 08:47
Posts: 1454
Location: London

The muzzle flash from a 12 gauge is usually enough to blind so how many lumens is that?

"You are making progress if each mistake you make is a new one."

Remember - Most great discoveries start with maki

DBSAR
DBSAR's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 02/11/2013 - 23:28
Posts: 6467
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

on my night stand beside the clock radio is both my modded SRK Kung, and a Modded BTU Shocker. On the dresser is the Olight SR90 Gun-light with a 200mw Green Laser & modded SK98 mounted to it.
Do those count ?

That Canadian flashlight guy & Lantern Guru -Den / DBSARlight

Gj
Gj's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 06/26/2013 - 15:44
Posts: 3066
Location: NY,USA

10kW pulsed laser? 

 

Slewflash
Slewflash's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 2 months ago
Joined: 07/05/2012 - 08:43
Posts: 1977
Location: Australia, Melbourne
the wrote:

I think it’s more about kcd (or actually lux at eye level). 600lm of normal flashlight beam might be enough, but 600lm of light bulb would not.

That being said, I’d use a >100kcd light. (either a thrower like K40, just hoping to aim well enough – or opting to use X60 which doesn’t require so good aim – on strobe of course)

I agree it’s all about the intensity of the light rather than the total output, a MiniMax might have 5000 lumens, but it has less than 20kcd. It’s around the same brightness as a skyray king if you pointed both of them at your eyes.

100kcd+ is definitely a safe bet for someone with night adjusted eyes I think.

Slewflash 

Pulsar13
Pulsar13's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 5 hours ago
Joined: 02/05/2012 - 10:23
Posts: 1909
Location: Malaysia

100kcd is more than enough. 50kcd is very blinding when it’s pointed right at you.

I’m saying this is because you also want the beam size to be reasonably big. Sure you can get dedomed XPE2 to go 100kcd easy, but how to aim it steady to the intruder’s eye with the tiny dot? XML2 at 50kcd is much easier to aim and more effective.

Pinetreebbs
Pinetreebbs's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: 07/29/2012 - 10:39
Posts: 588
Location: South Carolina, USA, Earth
AlexGT wrote:
I think you only need .45 lead lumens :bigsmile:

I was thinking of a 9mm flash, but .45 would only be better. A .357 from a 2” barrel would be a little too bright.

WarHawk-AVG
WarHawk-AVG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 06:47
Posts: 5071
Location: H-Town

Gj wrote:

10kW pulsed laser? 

 


PEW PEW PEW Big Smile
aoeu
aoeu's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 months 1 week ago
Joined: 02/16/2014 - 04:44
Posts: 796
Location: Sydney, Australia

I think strobe is a bad idea. It disorientates everyone in the room. I know this because when I go to dance parties and the strobe is on, everyone bumps into each other in a comical fashion.

ezeqdb
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 5 hours ago
Joined: 10/28/2010 - 23:33
Posts: 287
Location: Rosario, Argentina

It doesn’t matter the lumens, but the luxes.

You can have 100 lumens (total amount of light) but if you have a really good throw, you can put all those lumens in the eyes of the “bad guy” and disorientate him.

Lumen a measure of the total amount of light emited by a source (luminous flux). Lux is the intensity of that light at a given point (illuminance). lx = lm /m2

The eye takes time to adapt to light, if it’s pitch dark, and you light up all the room with a 1000 lumens light, you will be both impared. You need to have a good deep reflector (or aspheric) thrower to create contrast. The high amount of light in his face will close his pupils (but not yours), and kill his adapted vision.

To have a comparison, between 30.000 and 100.000 luxes is the same than looking right into the sun.

Find the best thrower you can. And also remember that if he has a gun and goes blind, he may start shooting all over the place, so take care.

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/electro-ramblings/weird-wireless/weird-...

"no le temo a la oscuridad, la oscuridad me teme a mí"

WarHawk-AVG
WarHawk-AVG's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 3 months ago
Joined: 01/04/2014 - 06:47
Posts: 5071
Location: H-Town

ezeqdb wrote:
It doesn’t matter the lumens, but the candles.

You can have 100 lumens (total amount of light) but if you have a really good throw, you can put all those lumens in the eyes of the “bad guy” and disorientate him.

The eye takes time to adapt to light, if it’s pitch dark, and you light up all the room with a 1000 lumens light, you will be both impared. You need to have a good deep reflector (or aspheric) thrower to create contrast. The high amount of light in his face will close his pupils (but not yours), and kill his adapted vision.

To have a comparison, between 30 and 100 kcd is the same than looking right to the sun.

Find the best thrower you can. And also remember that if he has a gun and goes blind, he may start shooting all over the place, so take care.

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/electro-ramblings/weird-wireless/weird-...

Or at that big ol’ sun he just got socked in the puss by…which just so happens to be IN YOUR HAND!

So which technique do you think might be a good idea to start practicing?


https://www.tactical-officer.com/articles/hand-held-flashlight-shooting-...
http://www.iwillnotbeavictim.com/flashlight_hold-page.html
https://www.tactical-officer.com/articles/hand-held-flashlight-shooting-...

ezeqdb
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 5 hours ago
Joined: 10/28/2010 - 23:33
Posts: 287
Location: Rosario, Argentina

@WarHawk-AVG I corrected a few physic concepts from my original post)

"no le temo a la oscuridad, la oscuridad me teme a mí"

Pulsar13
Pulsar13's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 months 5 hours ago
Joined: 02/05/2012 - 10:23
Posts: 1909
Location: Malaysia
ezeqdb wrote:
To have a comparison, between 30 and 100 luxes is the same than looking right into the sun.

Dude, I don’t know about where you live but here the sun register 100 THOUSAND lux on the ground.

Smile

ezeqdb
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 5 hours ago
Joined: 10/28/2010 - 23:33
Posts: 287
Location: Rosario, Argentina

Hahahah sorry, I meant KILOluxes Silly

"no le temo a la oscuridad, la oscuridad me teme a mí"

lionheart_2281
lionheart_2281's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 hours 47 min ago
Joined: 10/25/2012 - 18:32
Posts: 3174
Location: Brisbane, Australia

I’ve always wanted someone to come at me when I’m on a night walk with my TK75, the fast strobe on that is insane, then I’d just clock em with it (hopefully wouldn’t damage my baby)

Gj
Gj's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 month 3 weeks ago
Joined: 06/26/2013 - 15:44
Posts: 3066
Location: NY,USA

lionheart_2281 wrote:
I've always wanted someone to come at me when I'm on a night walk with my TK75, the fast strobe on that is insane, then I'd just clock em with it (hopefully wouldn't damage my baby)

Silly, you strobe with the TK75, then clock with the 6D Maglite. That's what they're made for. Innocent

 

 

Pinetreebbs
Pinetreebbs's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 4 months ago
Joined: 07/29/2012 - 10:39
Posts: 588
Location: South Carolina, USA, Earth
Gj wrote:

lionheart_2281 wrote:
I’ve always wanted someone to come at me when I’m on a night walk with my TK75, the fast strobe on that is insane, then I’d just clock em with it (hopefully wouldn’t damage my baby)

Silly, you strobe with the TK75, then clock with the 6D Maglite. That’s what they’re made for. Innocent

 

 

Point to Gj

Cereal_killer
Cereal_killer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: 07/22/2013 - 13:10
Posts: 4005
Location: Ohio
lionheart_2281 wrote:
I’ve always wanted someone to come at me when I’m on a night walk with my TK75, the fast strobe on that is insane, then I’d just clock em with it (hopefully wouldn’t damage my baby)

Last July 4th we had an extremely impaired bad guy kick in our front door. Let me tell you from personal experience no you don’t. You absolutely do not want someone coming at you trying to cause you/your family harm no matter how well you think your prepared. To say so is just silly… Even cops don want that. It’s no fun.

As for what I found best in our actual situation (not just guessing/testing on friends family). I had a 700Lm P60 mounted on my carbine and it did almost nothing to slow/stop the BG, what actually did help, and changed my entire outlook was my wife with her hand gun and a nitecore EA4 in strobe, that really made a difference. I’m not going to go into the whole story, its long and honestly I just don’t feel like telling here it but after that night I changed my carbine (an AR) mounted light to one with instant access to high and strobe (at first I was using a quark tactical but I’ve now got a custom programmed driver in a balder SE2- single clicks more than .5sec apart just turn it on and off, a sub .5sec double click enters strobe). It took a long time to get the FW just right (Richard helped) cause the way I’ve always trained momentary operation is very important to how I use my carbine, I don’t want it entering strobe when I’m just trying to turn it on and off quickly. The way it works is almost identical to how streamlight makes their dedicated weapons lights.

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

keithd
keithd's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 7 months ago
Joined: 04/12/2014 - 00:35
Posts: 803

Holy crap C_k! Glad you’re still around to tell the tale! Shocked

Pages