Review: EagleTac D25A Ti 219 (mid-2014 botch, er, batch)

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ToyKeeper
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reppans wrote:
I would personally have returned it for replacement, but I guess you’ve opened it now.

Eh, we’ll see. I only did what EagleTac support said to do. They might still be willing to adjust the output levels, though I’m not sure what’s involved in actually getting the item back to them. If I have to pay to ship it all the way to China and back (with months of waiting between), it probably won’t be worthwhile. But if it’s just a quick shipment to Washington and back, I’d like to get it fixed if possible.
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Well, unfortunately you may be stuck now with the China/Repair route – sorry if that is the case.

As a “bright” moonlight mode collector, I bought an Olight S15 which also had “abnormal” output, but the reverse of your situation with the two lowest modes (my most important and often used) being a fraction of spec. Immediately disappointed me and went right back to the dealer – Selfbuilt later encountered the same thing with his 2nd [purchased] sample, and our dialog is documented in his review of that light. I almost returned the SC52 for the same reason, except that it has so many closely spaced mode options, that the next higher mode (also way below spec) still satisfied for my purposes.

Now reading further into your review and reasons for your “mod” – I’ll +1 on Chloe’s comment:

Chloe wrote:
The blue halo, is the lens AR coated? I get the same halo on my Rustu 108S after switching the lens to AR coated (it is coated on both sides). It only appears when the light is pretty close to the wall:

It is the secondary light bounce off the internal AR coating, and all my D25As have it – but it is really not an issue at all – it disappears in normal use and only catches my eye in the occasional reflection (which personally, I sort of like in that it’s a very cool neon-blue color). Your photos also reflect that well – you cannot see the blue in any of the normally exposed (ie, were you can distinguish hotspot from spill) photos. I was wondering why many of your photos look so odd (pure giant hotspots) and now realize that you have massively overexposed the beams – so hotspot and spill blend into one white giant white spot – to bring out that blue corona for the camera. The human eye, with it’s natural auto exposure, simply cannot do that.

The “X” of the emitter in the beam when inches from a wall is (from my understanding) what you get with smooth reflectors – orange peel smooths that out. Here’s an old photo with one smooth reflector thrower (far left) among a bunch of OP reflector lights:

Also not an issue in normal use, and having a smooth reflector helps with the throw and hotspot definition, from what would naturally be a very floody light (tiny head).

Your PWM points are well taken, I know how to visually detect PWM and now do see something on the same modes you specify, but it looks much faster than my 47s Mini and Malkoff MDC AA, which I understood to be high frequency. Not so sure it’s true PWM or some sort oscillation in the current regulation that the LD12 is known for. I don’t have any equipment to test it, other than to sweep the light across a DSLR on time exposure – three lights held together would be the most telling (D25, a true PWM, and true current regulated). Maybe I’ll get around to it.

My knurling on my ’14 Ti is clean and has a much nicer tactile feel than my ’12 Ti’s – it’s actually nice and smooth without being too slippery. I could file my finger nails most light’s knurling, but not this one.

I don’t have anything to measure color temp, but I have 4 Nichia N219A lights and, as usual, each has a slightly different tint. My ET version is the warmest, but I looks quite close to the others, and the L10 I posted in the pix above. I know ET states the N219B but someone at CPF pointed out that it is actually an N219A – at least my early model is. I can’t be sure what yours is with the light on in your pix, but here’s the post that identifies the difference.

Clicky

Hey ToyKeeper, now that I think about it, perhaps your excess lumen problem stems from a transition from the N219A to the N219B! The later emitter is supposed to be more efficient, so if ET set the specs based upon the early versions with an N219A, then swapped to the more efficient emitter, without a corresponding driver re-program, it might very well produce the excess lumen outputs on your example. That would also mean, your light is NOT an anomaly, and all N219B emitters will have the problem until (and if) they decide to reprogram the driver (or revise the specs :D)

(Awaiting to hear your emitter version).

EDIT… Nah, thinking more about it, there’s no way a more efficient emitter swap is going to yield a 8x/4x lumen increase on ML/L for the same current draw – there has to be some re-program [error] in there. If it did, I’d glad take a AA light that could do 4 lumens for 150 hrs :bigsmile:

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My EagTac D25A Clicky Ti nichia 219 (bought 5 months ago) Vs EagTac D25A XP-G2 and XM-L Cool White

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reppans wrote:
Well, unfortunately you may be stuck now with the China/Repair route – sorry if that is the case.

They said I’d need to return it via the store where I bought it… which I was hoping to avoid, since GoingGear has been great and I prefer not to burden them with someone else’s problem.

reppans wrote:
I almost returned the SC52 for the same reason, except that it has so many closely spaced mode options, that the next higher mode (also way below spec) still satisfied for my purposes.

I find that Zebralight’s moon modes measure below spec even on their own scale, but I still find the output to be at a useful level. The highest moon mode on my Zebralights is actually what I’d consider the ideal level of output, even if it’s only 0.1 lm instead of 0.3 lm. I can’t complain about the runtime, either… one of mine gets used like 6-8 hours per night as a night light and only needs a recharge once every month or two.

reppans wrote:
It is the secondary light bounce off the internal AR coating, and all my D25As have it – but it is really not an issue at all – it disappears in normal use and only catches my eye in the occasional reflection (which personally, I sort of like in that it’s a very cool neon-blue color). Your photos also reflect that well – you cannot see the blue in any of the normally exposed (ie, were you can distinguish hotspot from spill) photos. I was wondering why many of your photos look so odd (pure giant hotspots) and now realize that you have massively overexposed the beams – so hotspot and spill blend into one white giant white spot – to bring out that blue corona for the camera. The human eye, with it’s natural auto exposure, simply cannot do that.

The human eye has a much wider dynamic range than most cameras, so I usually take three exposures to show what the human eye can see in just one viewing.

As for the blue ring, I’ve found it distracting. While using the light indoors, I can see the blue ring as far as 5 meters away. This is generally the case when I’m looking down a long room; the walls next to me have a bright blue crescent on them.

The blue ring goes away if I add diffuser film though, which I intend to do once I have other issues sorted out. It seems to improve the tint a little too. I’d really like to see the beam without the lens though.

reppans wrote:
The “X” of the emitter in the beam when inches from a wall is (from my understanding) what you get with smooth reflectors – orange peel smooths that out.

This is a light-orange-peel reflector. I don’t see the x-shaped beam pattern on any of my smooth-reflector lights, or on any of my other orange-peel lights. Actually, I don’t see it on any of my other lights regardless of the type. It’s not a big deal though; just a tiny quirk which makes the D25A unique. Its light cone has the narrowest point about 8cm in front of the lens, instead of at the lens itself like most lights.

reppans wrote:
Your PWM points are well taken, I know how to visually detect PWM and now do see something on the same modes you specify, but it looks much faster than my 47s Mini and Malkoff MDC AA, which I understood to be high frequency. Not so sure it’s true PWM or some sort oscillation in the current regulation that the LD12 is known for.

This D25A has full-on PWM, not high-frequency noise or oscillations.

My ZL SC52 has high-frequency oscillations on its L1 mode, and my JB RRT01 has noise/oscillations on several of its levels. I can see it, but only when I’m specifically looking for it with my usual PWM test. Those two oscillate quickly back and forth between two nearby brightness levels in order to get an average output somewhere in-between. The D25A isn’t like that though. It strobes completely on and off in a manner which looks identical to the common, cheap nanjg driver at 4.5 kHz… and I see it even when I’m not looking for it.

FWIW, the reason I see the 4.5 kHz PWM is because my eyes are weird and don’t do “saccadic masking” very well. This video explains more, if you’re curious. Basically, the strobing catches my attention every time I move my eyes while using a PWM-based light to look at stuff. Instead of the usual blur I’d see while moving my eyes, I see a bunch of discrete frames, especially on reflections, and it’s distracting. Also annoying when I encounter PWM-based LED tail lights on the road.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNBTLbw1_2Q

reppans wrote:
I don’t have anything to measure color temp, but I have 4 Nichia N219A lights and, as usual, each has a slightly different tint. My ET version is the warmest, but I looks quite close to the others, and the L10 I posted in the pix above. I know ET states the N219B but someone at CPF pointed out that it is actually an N219A – at least my early model is. I can’t be sure what yours is with the light on in your pix, but here’s the post that identifies the difference.

My D25A definitely has a Nichia 219B in it. It looks different than my 219A lights, and identical to my 219B lights.

All my Nichia 219 lights are spec’d at 4500K 92CRI, but the 219B lights appear to be actually around 5000K. I looked for others with 219B emitters, and they mentioned having similar results; the 219B we’ve all gotten has been significantly cooler in tint. So, I figured the D25A would be around 5000K too, especially since that’s what EagleTac said in their spec. But it’s the warmest of all my 219s, roughly the same color temperature as my ZL H52Fw (spec’d at 4400K), warmer than my 219A lights (about 4500K), and cooler than my ZL H51w (spec’d at 4200K). I don’t have a lot of lights in that range to compare against though, because I prefer slighly cooler tints.

I don’t have a way to measure CRI, but visually the D25A 219 doesn’t make colors “pop” anywhere near as well as my other Nichia 219 lights. It looks roughly on par with the ZL H52Fw, except that it’s more yellow and the H52Fw is more pink. I prefer the pink hue since I don’t see red quite as well as green or blue and the tint corrects for the bias in my eyes.

reppans wrote:
Hey ToyKeeper, now that I think about it, perhaps your excess lumen problem stems from a transition from the N219A to the N219B! That would also mean, your light is NOT an anomaly, and all N219B emitters will have the problem until (and if) they decide to reprogram the driver (or revise the specs :D)

That is actually quite possible. If I recall correctly, the N219B has a bin available with significantly lower Vf, and if they used that bin it might look quite a bit brighter at the same voltage. But others reported really bright moon/low modes with Cree emitters, so I kind of doubt it. Apparently the anomaly isn’t this unit… probably the entire mid-2014 batch.

reppans wrote:
If it did, I’d glad take a AA light that could do 4 lumens for 150 hrs :bigsmile:

How about 2.9 lm for 96 hours? That exists… it’s not quite as bright or quite as long, but it’s available today.
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It’s gratifying to see that not everyone buys the PWM-is-just-circuit-noise story. If it was just noise, then my camera couldn’t see it.

Here’s a video I did for the D25A mini showing PWM, which on their web site they say is constant-current. I believe what happened is that at some point EagleTac stopped using constant current circuits to get better tint, which their customers were/are complaining about. And they neglected to update all of their spec sheets—best of both worlds amirite?

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It’s really easy to see PWM. Just turn the light on and wave a thin, stiff white sheet through the beam really quickly. For this purpose, I’ve been using a pupil distance measurement ruler from Zenni Optical. It seems almost ideal — thinner and stiffer than a business card, long and narrow, and white.

Here’s what it looks like when checking PWM on my BST-wide on “low”. Its PWM runs at 188 Hz (measured via sound tuner plus the audible whine it makes sometimes), at a duty cycle of 11% (measured via pixel measurements of that photo, and verified against official spec):

The D25A looks similar except that the frames are thinner and much closer together. It’s difficult to get good pictures of it, but I could probably do so if necessary. The D25A’s frames are only about 1mm to 2mm apart, which is consistent with all my nanjg-based lights. The nanjg PWM runs at 4.5 kHz, so I’m assuming the D25A does too.

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Copying quotes down is too difficult, so…

I know everyone has different moonlight mode preferences, but if ZL had been remotely accurate, I wouldn’t have wasted my time with the SC52. My H51w (0.18) was nice, and I was looking for brighter, but then rec’d something spec’d twice as bright (0.34) yet with less than half the output – go figure. It also doesn’t make any sense to me to have three ML options, but all of them below 0.1 lms.

We can agree to disagree on the blue and X, just offering another opinion – I can’t see either in normal use.

I’m the same with PWM, it catches my attention in reflections when moving my eyes quickly (the way I prefer testing for it) and I also find it distracting. I ran the time exposure sweep picture I mentioned before and now agree it does look like full on PWM, L > R, SC52, Quark AA, D25A, MDC AA, ~3 lms:

I thought it might have been some sort of oscillation since this is THE fastest PWM I’ve ever seen – I can barely detect it, with the reflection or pencil fanning method, and I’m sweeping those lights in the photo as fast as I can. I don’t know the Hz, but the MDC and 47s Mini are said to be HF PWM but can I easily detect those. Also THIS is an old photo of my ’12 D25A vs. a Quark on ML where the light goes “pseudo-PWM” on low voltage batts (cellphone detection method included)… it never really is fully “off” so is not truly PWM… the Hz is very slow though and quite annoying, and another reason I think the D25A has poor regulation on ML.

Toykeeper,
It was not my intention to be confrontational, but I felt compelled to question your review based upon your calibration to ZL lumens (sorry, but what I consider to be one of the most exaggerating and inaccurate starting points) and comparing that to what I found to be one of the most accurate (well, at least my samples). But you know, and have well stated, all the key points (ie, ZL scale 40-50% more liberal than ET scale, L2a ~0.1, ML below spec even by their own scale) and appear to have well accounted for them. So between that, the “B” emitter switch, and PWM points (news to me), I wave the white flag and say “Uncle!” I think you have done an excellent job on the review, and look forward to your future reviews.

My apologies for any troubles I may have caused.

Racer,
I used to use the cellphone camera method to detect PWM but have picked up some false readings, and in both directions. For example, HERE is an old pic of my MDC AA on the same mode. And I also don’t believe in the current regulated “tint shift” thing – THIS pic shows all lights at ~100 lumens on top and moonlight on bottom – can you tell which lights are current regulated and which are PWM?

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That’s a really interesting picture. First time I’ve seen the SC52’s L1 oscillations captured on film. I haven’t tried to get an image of it because it seemed like it’d be very difficult. You must be very quick! Smile

I’m also going to have a hard time capturing the Qlite driver’s PWM in an image, since it runs at 19 kHz instead of the usual 4.5 kHz. It’s fast enough that I don’t notice it during use, and can barely even see it with the card-waving method.

However, I just today discovered that I can build a spectrometer from inexpensive parts, and I’m really excited about it. I’ve been wanting to map the spectral output of lights for a long time, and sometime soon maybe I can. Smile (especially interested in comparing a N219 against my BST-wide and the sun… but it’ll also be neat to see how the D25A 219 compares against a N219 without the AR coating)

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FWIW, I discovered two things today:

First, on a light with a similar blue halo (Olight S10, 2012 edition), removing the lens gets rid of the halo and makes the beam like 500K cooler and much whiter in color. This mostly confirms that I should be able to fix the tint and CRI issues by swapping the D25A’s lens for a plain piece of glass. That is, assuming I can get it apart.

Second, I got a slightly older aluminum D25A today (it was on a really good sale), and it has some major differences. Its moon mode is only a fraction as bright as my titanium model’s moon mode. Also, the lens is actually user-replaceable like the specs say. The front bezel comes off easily to expose the lens and reflector and LED. The head and body threads also swapped gender, and the head is narrower than on the titanium model. It seems the titanium version has a completely different head design than the aluminum model.

The aluminum model still has PWM on some levels though, and its moon mode has an initial pre-flash before it steps down to the correct level. But overall it’s much closer to spec.

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I updated the OP with “Regular D25A Measurements”. I measured another D25A, a cool white XM-L2 model that I think is from 2013. It’s much closer to spec.

Tint: Not sure, blue-ish white with a primary blue halo around the outside of the spill. So, definitely cool white.

Lumen specs are listed as OTF lm / emitter lm, since EagleTac lists both on their site.

D25A-XML2 low / “moon-mode enabled” group:

  • Low (spec=0.5lm/1lm): 0.43 lm, current-controlled
  • Med (spec=9lm/11lm): 12.1 lm, with PWM
  • High (spec=85lm/121lm): 121.9 lm, current-controlled

D25A-XML2 high / “moon-mode disabled” group:

  • Low (spec=6lm): 5.86 lm, with PWM
  • Med (spec=20lm): 23.62 lm, with PWM
  • High (spec=85lm/121lm): 121.9 lm, current-controlled

Turbo:

  • Turbo (spec=141lm/200lm): 201.4 lm, current-controlled

This was, mostly, pretty close to the “emitter lumens” values specified on EagleTac’s site. Their “OTF lumens” specs seem low though, compared to the ZL scale my light box is calibrated to.

I was actually a bit surprised at how closely the measured output resembled the specs. Sure, it mostly matches the “emitter lumens” instead of “OTF lumens”, but at least it matches some part of the spec. And apparently ET’s “emitter lumens” are about the same as ZL’s lumen specs. Just FWIW. I mean, the numbers match up really closely, if you ever need to convert from one to the other.

I’d love a D25A Ti-219 with the lumen levels of the XM-L2 aluminum model (maybe a bit lower on high/turbo though), the titanium body, and a plain piece of glass instead of the AR-coated lens. Sigh.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
This was, mostly, pretty close to the “emitter lumens” values specified on EagleTac’s site. Their “OTF lumens” specs seem low though, compared to the ZL scale my light box is calibrated to..

Hello, Toykeeper… glad you found a decent sample to test. Your results appear consistent with my tests between the two lights and also with your statement in your OP that ZL and ET differ by ~40-50% in lumen scale. As you know I consider ET’s specs to be more ANSI accurate for reasons I mention in post 21 above, and because the ET/47s scale matches most of my light collection. The D25A has been one of my preferred lightbox calibration lights.

- I think with moonlight mode off, Low and Med spec should be 3 lms and 18 lms since the ET footnote say “6x and 2x, the L and M with MM-on.”

- Curious what voltage cell you used to test the ML mode since I find the relatively poorly regulated ML to be quite volatile depending on V. ie, I get half the ML output on 1.6v Alks or L91s.

- Might be interesting to run a side-by-side output/runtime test of the D25A 85 lm/2.5 hr mode vs SC52 116/3 hr mode.

- Interestingly, I have not read of any other owners of an N219 D25As having massive out of spec low modes… on the other forum that is. Perhaps you really have received a bad sample?

Thanks for the update!

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ToyKeeper, you said in the the review that your 219B in D25A ti is a little bit warmer or yellowish than your other 219Bs. I just read from the datasheet (if I understand it right) that they have cool and warm tints too. I just bought a 219B from IOS and it has been described as “D220” in the specs. It does have a little bit of yellow but I don’t mind that because I’m used to warmer tint now. If you can see from the table lum. flux of D220 is min = 220 and max =240. So, I guess the higher “ranks” (like D260, D280 and D280) will have cooler tint almost to white and that’s why the lum. flux is higher too.

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reppans wrote:
- I think with moonlight mode off, Low and Med spec should be 3 lms and 18 lms since the ET footnote say “6x and 2x, the L and M with MM-on.”

The specs say: “With moon-mode setting disabled, lowest output will increase by about 6 times, to 4 lumen, and the second lowest output will double, to around 20 lumen”.

Even though the multiplication doesn’t work out very well, I used the numbers from ET’s specs.

reppans wrote:
- Curious what voltage cell you used to test the ML mode since I find the relatively poorly regulated ML to be quite volatile depending on V. ie, I get half the ML output on 1.6v Alks or L91s.

Fresh-off-the-charger Eneloop. I don’t have alkalines on lithium primaries to use for testing.

reppans wrote:
- Might be interesting to run a side-by-side output/runtime test of the D25A 85 lm/2.5 hr mode vs SC52 116/3 hr mode.

It might be, but I’m not doing runtime tests. I enjoy selfbuilt’s runtime graphs, but unfortunately he didn’t test SC52 vs D25A… he only tested SC52 vs the 2xAA version (D25A2).
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harry218 wrote:
ToyKeeper, you said in the the review that your 219B in D25A ti is a little bit warmer or yellowish than your other 219Bs. I just read from the datasheet (if I understand it right) that they have cool and warm tints too. I just bought a 219B from IOS and it has been described as “D220” in the specs. It does have a little bit of yellow but I don’t mind that because I’m used to warmer tint now. If you can see from the table lum. flux of D220 is min = 220 and max =240. So, I guess the higher “ranks” (like D260, D280 and D280) will have cooler tint almost to white and that’s why the lum. flux is higher too.

Something is clearly wrong about the ET specs. It’s a 219B but they claim it’s from the “B11” bin which doesn’t exist. That’s not even the correct naming scheme. It should say D220, which is the brightest bin available for the 92-CRI emitter they claim to be using. Then again, it should probably also say it’s a 4500K tint instead of 5000K tint, but this particular bin of 219Bs seems to be noticeably colder than the equivalent bin of 219As, so I can understand claiming it as 5000K instead of 4500K.

In any case, the yellowish tint isn’t normal. Anything with 90+ CRI at 4500K should look white, not yellow. I have ten lights with Nichia 219s in them, and the EagleTac looks rather different than any of the others. I have three lights with too-strong AR lens coating, and I can remove the lens from the other two. All three make the beam warmer and color-tinted, and all three look quite a bit better when I take the lens off.

So, I’m pretty sure the tint issue is the lens, not the emitter.

It occurred to me just now that I can actually test it; no need to guess. I took the removable lens from my regular D25A and held it over another Nichia 219B light, with a third 219 shining next to it for reference. When I shine the white 219B through the D25A lens, the beam turns warmer and yellow and colors no longer look nice in it.

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ToyKeeper wrote:

It occurred to me just now that I can actually test it; no need to guess. I took the removable lens from my regular D25A and held it over another Nichia 219B light, with a third 219 shining next to it for reference. When I shine the white 219B through the D25A lens, the beam turns warmer and yellow and colors no longer look nice in it.

I have seen similar results with another lights’s AR lens.
I had a Nichia 119 that looked slightly yellow with lens and less so with lens removed.
Also removing reflector got rid of all yellow.
I’ve noticed the coatings on the lens as well as reflectors can change tints.
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ToyKeeper wrote:

The specs say: “With moon-mode setting disabled, lowest output will increase by about 6 times, to 4 lumen, and the second lowest output will double, to around 20 lumen”.

Even though the multiplication doesn’t work out very well, I used the numbers from ET’s specs.

The “around 20” statement seemed to me to be the averaging of 18 for the XML and 22 for XPG. OK, got the 4 lms, but then why do you use 6?

No big deal – it’s your call of course, but those two modes are the only ones that stand out as inconsistent to the rest of your measurements & lumen scale differences.

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reppans wrote:
OK, got the 4 lms, but then why do you use 6?

‘cause I R dumb and sometimes I need things pointed out more than once before I “get it”. D’oh. Fixing the OP now.
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ToyKeeper wrote:
Something is clearly wrong about the ET specs. It’s a 219B but they claim it’s from the “B11” bin which doesn’t exist. That’s not even the correct naming scheme. It should say D220, which is the brightest bin available for the 92-CRI emitter they claim to be using. Then again, it should probably also say it’s a 4500K tint instead of 5000K tint, but this particular bin of 219Bs seems to be noticeable colder than the equivalent bin of 219As, so I can understand claiming it as 5000K instead of 4500K.

In any case, the yellowish tint isn’t normal. Anything with 90+ CRI at 4500K should look white, not yellow. I have ten lights with Nichia 219s in them, and the EagleTac looks rather different than any of the others. I have three lights with too-strong AR lens coating, and I can remove the lens from the other two. All three make the beam warmer and color-tinted, and all three look quite a bit better when I take the lens off.

So, I’m pretty sure the tint issue is the lens, not the emitter.

It occurred to me just now that I can actually test it; no need to guess. I took the removable lens from my regular D25A and held it over another Nichia 219B light, with a third 219 shining next to it for reference. When I shine the white 219B through the D25A lens, the beam turns warmer and yellow and colors no longer look nice in it.


I’m glad you identified the problem. I just found the correct datasheet for high CRI 219B (min 85). Here. You’re right D220 is the brightest bin available for high CRI. Do you know why I see some yellow with my 219B D220 from IOS? The lens is without coating.
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harry218 wrote:
Do you know why I see some yellow with my 219B D220 from IOS? The lens is without coating.

It’s hard to say. Individual emitters vary quite a bit, and the bins Nichia uses aren’t as narrow as the bins Cree uses.

I’ve seen at least 300K of color temperature variation between different 219B emitters in the same bin, maybe more like 400K. And next to a 6500K cool white emitter, if your eyes are calibrated so that 6500K looks white, anything in the 4500K to 5000K range will appear warm and sort of yellow. OTOH, if your eyes see 4500K as white, the 6500K tint will look rather blue.

Next to other emitters of a similar color temperature though, a high-CRI light should look pretty white. Do you have any other 219s or other high-CRI neutral/daylight lights to compare against?

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A smooth reflector basically mirrors the emitter from the center outwards, so you are seeing the corners of the chip pointing towards the center of the beam, creating a dark X. It all averages itself out at distance, since ideally, your reflector will image to a point infinitely far. In my opinion, I almost think that seeing a dark X up close is a better sign than seeing a fully filled circle up close.

Perhaps the lens isn’t coated for a broad range of wavelengths, but maybe just coated for wavelengths centering around blue? AR is for increasing transmittance, and most typical high output LEDs are on the cool side, so if you had to pick one coating, you’d pick one for a blue wavelength.

Also, these may be truely current regulated, but thought I might posit the possibility that even though they are a smaller chip, perhaps they are more efficient at lower currents than the driver (or flashlight maker) is expecting, and perhaps this could somehow result in more light out for the same amount of power to the LED.

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Next to other emitters of a similar color temperature though, a high-CRI light should look pretty white. Do you have any other 219s or other high-CRI neutral/daylight lights to compare against?

It certainly looks pretty white next to my T6-4C and T5-5B (of course it is much warmer) while the only other light with 219B I have right now is the L10. The L10 certainly a little colder (whiter) than my 219B from IOS. I guess not by much, maybe just my eyes. It could be the driver or reflector that caused that yellowish tint.
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I don’t think a flat AR coated window will do much splitting of colors. A large focusing lens will. The way the colors get separated in reflector lights is that the light emitted sideways that hits the reflector has had a longer path through the phosphor, so it has less of the original royal blue or whatever left in it than is in the light emitted forward that forms the spill. That can be an advantage with a typical bluish LED because the spot is warmer and the spill is often too dim for the tint to matter much. But the bluish spill blinds other more than a warmer spill would.
On the other hand, I don’t see much advantage to anti-reflection coated lenses in flashlights, unless you want a very clean ringless beam.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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Fritz t. Cat wrote:
I don’t think a flat AR coated window will do much splitting of colors. A large focusing lens will.

I verified it on another D25A, and on an Olight S10. Stock AR lens equals nasty tint with a blue halo, no lens equals beautiful beam, plain piece of glass also equals beautiful beam. It’s not the reflector. I think this is also why so many ZebraLights have green tints, but I can’t remove the lens to test those.
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Odd that they would use such bad coatings then. I don’t see green or yellow with my eyeglasses. Maybe a lot of people want coated lenses because that is like other optics but don’t notice the quality. Or maybe they don’t know what they are selling.

Flashlight designers should look at lighthouses and pottery.
这些谁设计的手电筒应该看灯塔,以及在陶器。

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Just a quick note. You must have gotten a Friday afternoon sample. My late 2014 D25A (Nichia) has a similar low mode to my 2012 model (around 0.5 lumen or less).

The threading is nice and tight (a bit sloppy on the 2012 models I’ve seen), and I like how they redesigned the head to hide the brass threads. Overall, not a huge difference from the 2012 model (excluding 14500 use, I don’t use 14500 in these lights).

My knurling was clean, and I did note a blue tint to the edge of the spill but I don’t see it in use since it’s at the very edge.

Overall, I’m quite happy with my late 2014 model. I think you just got a bad sample. Unfortunately these mass market lights can have pretty big sample variation.

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Ha! Great review and nice pun in the title.
The D25A was high on my list but, aside from ergonomics (mode switching), it seems that QC also prooves bothersome.

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BTW, the driver came out of my D25A while I was trying to melt the glue holding the head together. It looks like the driver will be relatively easy to replace, and I can even keep the original contact plate.

So, the plan is to replace the driver, connect all three pins of the contact plate (batt plus, batt minus loose, batt minus tight), and write some firmware for it to take advantage of the tight/loose sensor. The down side is that I don’t have any boost drivers available so it’ll require 14500 cells after the mod.

And I still haven’t gotten the pill to unscrew from the head yet. Sigh. Stupid extra-strong glue.

Oh, and I also have a 2012 model of the same light now. It’s much better than the mid-2014 model. However, it still needs the lens replaced to get rid of ugly tint… but that’s a simple matter since the bezel unscrews easily.

Mostly, I’ve just been too busy to finish it, and the availability of other drivers is a fairly recent development.

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Sorry to hear you got a lousy sample but I’m interested in what drivers you find to fit in there!

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RMM sells a 15mm 5×7135 driver right now which should work, if you remove the D25A’s contact board. And the oshpark thread lists a 12mm FET driver which should also work (piggyback on the contact board). These are both available right now, and are both pretty good.

I’m hoping for a FET+1 driver or maybe a 2×7135 driver instead, though even a 1×7135 is bright enough for my purposes. And I’m hoping for a 14mm solution too, because that would work in both the D25A and in the new CNQG brass AA lights.

In any case, there are options. I mostly just need to do it.

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Please post when you do! So few decent AA drivers. Do you like the brass AA? I prefer the old knurling pattern so skipped it. No clip for it right?

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