Yikes! Honestly I'm pretty surprised. I would think the AW's would have the clear advantage at high discharge rates. Honestly I cant help but think the AW cell is damaged to do that poorly at 10A ??
"The main concern with the Panasonics is the "unknown" level of safety. Until somebody shows me what it takes to make both cells explode, and that there is a difference, I'm going to treat both the same."
I'm completely on board with you on this! In fact we are going to be changing some wording on our website so people really understand no battery is safe. I mean really... when I was a child I had it pounded into me about battery not being safe. I think its better to error on the side of safety rather than catch your self on fire or get burnt up with acid.
I agree, but these cells have never been abused. No dead shorts, no overdischarges. no resting after depleted, and the only times they were depleted was for tests. Also, they readily charge to 4.2v and hold their charge. They also has a relatively normal curve under a decent load (5A).
My only guess could be that regularly charging the cells at higher rates (2C), while within specs according to AW, result in degradation. However, I looked at a graph from a test I did 10 months ago and the curve (another 5A graph) was nearly identical to the ones done today.
BTW, the Panasonic is GAINING capacity. :) 2200 mAh @ 10A is unbelievable.
Very nice mitro , though the demand for a 10A test , I think was a bit of a [ hmmmmm ] unreasonable demand , and I thought it insanely funny when posted on CPF ...
But the fact that the two IMR;s fell on there face and the Panasonic performed well , kind of speaks volumes ...
Now when I see the Enemy post [ yes I think enemy ] , a AW review , must remember to demand a 10A discharge ...
But the whole thread unfortunately deteriorated , with some very silly [ Stupid !!! - who am i kidding ] comments and demands ...
Thank you... and thanks for all the testing you've done.
I did the 10A discharge on the cell because Panasonic says it can. I had already done it once for my initial tests, but its gotten stronger since then. I'm not here to sell CK cells. Jordon was nice enough to give me one to test and if the results were poor, they'd be in the above graphs. I like cells that perform up to, or beyond, expectations. I think we all do. :)
Those guys would cry foul, but i guess if BLFers would want to counter AW, better do another 4.2V discharge @ 10A, and then after that 5A to show that it has not been damaged. "PROVE BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT".
It's not a damaged cell, the 1A and 5A mAh results confirm that.
Anyway I am charging HKE's NCR18650A, but i can only do 1A. (ouch)
I think enough people have IMR's , but not everyone has the equipment to test @ 10A , and I think some of the CPF posters were counting on that , almost like a crutch .
I havent checked yet , but I saw mention of getting banned ??? I'll have to check that out ...
I ran them all at 7.5A today. Everyone have their harnesses fastened? OK... hang on!
WWWWWWHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! I've never been on a discharge graph rollercoaster before. :) I assume thatis not good. No... I KNOW that is not good. At 7.5A the AWs are on the edge of having useful capacity, but the temperature of them is getting so high that any cracks/nicks in the wrapper are getting bigger because the wrap is shrinking. So the AWs still work... just not well.
Wow, that's a crazy discharge graph. Maybe the battery got a second wind. So at 10A, the test lasts about 12 minutes or so? (for the CK's, looks like the AW's won't make a minute).
Here you go Ted (the graph shows voltage/minutes):
Jordon: If I blow myself up and I'm NOT dead... my wife would most likely kill me for being stupid. If I did manage to survive both, then I'd happily buy a couple. LOL
For kicks, you should try the BIO IMR 18350 for "comparison". Like i said, i think they might be better than AW IMR. IMR 18350 gets around 900mAh, how about 2700mA (3C) and 3600mA (4C) Be careful. Coz i am going to see if 3 x 18350 works in DD in my SR3800, but will be very careful about the cells temperature. So far the 18500s work with nearly 4 amps and cell temperature is quite ok. The 18500 have only about 100mAh more capacity than the 18350.
I’ll test the BIO @ 4A and maybe carefully try 5A as well (3A is already done above). I still have to put the spring back on my Skyray or I’d just try it myself (I have 4 BIO IMR 18350s now).
I have 6 BIO 18350s. hehe... oh ok no worries bro, so 3A (3C) is done and all looks well. Seriously 3 x 18350 in the DD SkyRay SR3800 triple XM-L is just for fun, i don't suggest the guys try it (at your own risk obviously)
To end the saga of the AW IMR vs. CK High Discharge 18650 I wanted to how a new AW IMR performs compared to my older ones and the CK cell. Jordon was nice enough to actually buy me an AW to test (thank you again) which shipped directly from Oveready to me.
Here's the best of my old AWs vs the new AW vs. the CK HD cell:
3 Amps
5 Amps
10 Amps
So the AW IMR does have a clear advantage in the voltage department when we start drawing 10 Amps from the cells, but how many applications do we need 10A+ and only with 1500mAh to use? Then again, if I only need 5A I could go with a Sanyo 2600 and even get a bit more capacity. Its all a trade-off.
I'm just disappointed that the cells I bought a little over a year ago are basically useless.
