GB: Copper C8 head for 25mm Khatod Quad optic, 24mm Carclo's

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Hoop
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GB: Copper C8 head for 25mm Khatod Quad optic, 24mm Carclo's

Hey y’all. The 24mm Cutter quad boards are coming out and I think the 25mm Khatod Quad optics need some love. I will make a variation of the head, if not just a spacer, for the 24mm Carclo optics also. These optics are for XP footprint emitters. XP-L HI will work with either optic, I believe. I will do testing of the various optics and emitter combinations and report my findings as the project progresses.

Here’s a Khatod 25mm quad optic next to a Carclo 24mm quad. The khatod is much taller and presumably offers some beneficial optical characteristics, like more throw.

This full copper head will be for the CONVOY C8 V2 and V3 and will have an integrated shelf and a stainless steel bezel. A UCL glass lens will be incorporated into the design to protect the optic from scratches and provide surface area for an O-ring without blocking any light from the optic. The driver pocket will be shallow and feature my “screwdriver” driver retaining method, with 2-56 sized socket head cap screws rather than 0-80.

I’d like to gather interest before investing time and money into this. I get requests for custom parts which can’t be made economically but with a group buy I can get these types of products out there for everyone. I’ll probably use this format more in the future to jumpstart these kinds of obscure offerings.

The price will be $44 shipped WITH a 25mm Khatod Quad optic, which is an $8 optic by itself, a UCL lens which is a $4.25 lens, a hex key, and a machined brass (positive driver contact) button.

For the purpose of illustration, here’s a CAD model without any real aesthetic influence added:

Let me know if you’d like in on this, and feel free to make a comment or suggestion. Thanks!

Update:
7/3/16: So I decided a while back to abandon the proposed copper head and instead offer a complete 26650 tube light to house the quad Khatod optic. Some CAD work has been done at this point and I’m working out the fitment of the components. I’ve got some ideas to deal with torsion forces on the optic, if they are a problem, as proposed in post #144.

Edited by: Hoop on 07/03/2016 - 07:07
RobertB
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Sounds great, I’m in

mattlward
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Now this sounds cool! Will keep an eye out here, any pics or still a vision?

EDC rotation:
FW1A, LH351D 4000k (second favorite)
FW3A, LH351D 3500k
FW3A, SST20 FD2 4000k
FW3A, Nichia 4000k sw40 r9080 (favorite light!)
FW3A, Cree XP-L Hi 5A3
Emisar D4V2, SST20 4000k

djozz
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Those are 100+ dollar parts that you are offering for 34, how do you do that? Great offer!

If you strip the ano off the battery tube and tail, the whole will look great.

unknown00101
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Sounds awesome. I’m in.

I’m guessing square threads instead of the older triangular threaded version?

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What a great idea at a great price! Can you please add more cooling fins and make them longer/deeper? An additional half inch in length with 3 more fins may also do wonders for a high current light, even if it means offering two versions.

Something like this C12, but with deeper/longer fins. Maybe keep the fins the same dia as the bezel and cut them deeper (wherever possible):

Hoop
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unknown00101 wrote:
I’m guessing square threads instead of the older triangular threaded version?
Shoot I have a slightly older Convoy C8 than the current version… If the Convoy currently being produced (V3) has the “modified square” thread profile (10° included angle) like the Thorfire C8S, the C8 platform will be abandoned and I’ll make the heads for the S2+. If the Convoy C8 V3 has a truncated triangular thread profile (60° thread with the tips cut off) then we’re all good.

I chose the C8 platform because I like the beefier body over the S2+, but it’s a shame the design has changed so many times.

djozz wrote:
If you strip the ano off the battery tube and tail, the whole will look great.
It’ll look good no matter what.

mattlward wrote:
Now this sounds cool! Will keep an eye out here, any pics or still a vision?
Just in the planning stage right now. I’ll post up some CAD models in the not too distance future.
Hoop
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FlashPilot wrote:
What a great idea at a great price! Can you please add more cooling fins and make them longer/deeper? An additional half inch in length with 3 more fins may also do wonders for a high current light, even if it means offering two versions.
Bigger copper means it will cost more money and will be less pocketable, but I could offer a bigger one, sure. The current plan is to make the head from 1.375” copper bar, which will be slightly larger than the finned section on the stock C8. The fins will be a little deeper but fins don’t do anything on small flashlights, you know.

Edit: The metal distributor I normally use only has 1.25” bar and 1.5”, no 1.375” bar, so I will have to get quotes on metal from a different local distributor. The price may need to go up slightly, especially if I make it form 1.5” bar.

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Wauw sounds great!

Why not make the tube and tailcap?
Tube from 3/4 pipe
tailcap from a smaller bar

will34
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I’m in for at least 1.

Is the head going to be shorter and slimmer since there’s no reflector?

Hoop
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The Miller wrote:
Wauw sounds great!

Why not make the tube and tailcap?
Tube from 3/4 pipe
tailcap from a smaller bar

It would take more work and would cost more money. Sure I could start selling somewhat expensive full copper S2+ style hosts if anyone’s interested. Wink

If I make a full host I think I’d abandon existing “formats” since they are prone to changes and tolerances which are beyond my control. I’d use an acme thread profile.

Hoop
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will34 wrote:
Is the head going to be shorter and slimmer since there’s no reflector?
Yes.

Who’s got a Convoy C8 V3? I have a V2 at the moment. Are they square threads or triangular with the tips cut off?

Ouchyfoot
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Yeah, I’m in for one whichever you decide on.

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djozz wrote:
Those are 100+ dollar parts that you are offering for 34, how do you do that? Great offer!

I can confirm that, unbeatable price for small quantities production.
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Hoop wrote:

Who’s got a Convoy C8 V3? I have a V2 at the moment. Are they square threads or triangular with the tips cut off?

Square, same as V2.
Hoop
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V2 that I have has TRUNCATED TRIANGULAR threads. They might look square but they aren’t. Gotta look real close.

1dash1
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Besides the Convoy C8 body, what else do we need to complete the flashlight?

  • Driver (any recommendations?)
  • 4 x Emitters (recommendations forthcoming per the OP)
  • Retaining ring? (not sure if one is needed with your socket head cap screw system)

Rule 1-1 as it applies to life, take it as it comes.

Hoop
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Driver: I’d go with a FET driver of some sort for some WOW turbo action. Choose a battery to pull the right amount of amps to whatever LED’s you choose.
Emitters: Cutter quad stars are going to be available from a few retailers soon with various LED’s on them, I’d imagine.

No retaining ring necessary with the socket head cap screw system.

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I see that the final design may be undecided as of yet, but I’m very interested as well. I’ve got an older Convoy, the one with the removable pill, but I could buy a new host if needed. I’ve also got a couple of Thorfire C8s hosts if those may work.

The other idea being discussed here seems to be a solid copper full host modeled after (or at least similar to) the Convoy S2+. I’d be all over that, especially if the tailcap could be machined to accept the metal switch from a real S2+.

So I guess what I’m saying is put me down for one each Smile

kiriba-ru
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Hoop wrote:
V2 that I have has TRUNCATED TRIANGULAR threads. They might look square but they aren’t. Gotta look real close.

We can`t understand each other one more time. Simply:
1. Standart thread making operation calls lathering (not milling)
2. Most hosts have metric thread pitch.
3. Metric thread have a standart shape with 60-degrees top (and same cutter shape)
4. TRUNCATED TRIANGULAR threads is standart 60-degrees threads with cutted tops.
A year ago I have sold few C8 V2 pills and I named them “with trapezoidal threads”. Why so? It is too hard to make such threads with standart 60-degreed thread-cutter on lathe, so it is nessecary to make/use special cutter with trapezoidal shape.
kiriba-ru
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When BLF-members make their reviews, they always call threads that have trapezoidal shape “square threads”.

The Miller
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Hoop wrote:
The Miller wrote:
Wauw sounds great!

Why not make the tube and tailcap?
Tube from 3/4 pipe
tailcap from a smaller bar

It would take more work and would cost more money. Sure I could start selling somewhat expensive full copper S2+ style hosts if anyone’s interested. Wink

If I make a full host I think I’d abandon existing “formats” since they are prone to changes and tolerances which are beyond my control. I’d use an acme thread profile.


Yes there are a couple of standard pipes that fit our cells
No worries about threads in existing models
Tale the closest to fit 26550 cells

People can ask for specific lengths
Design a head like the C8 but fitting that pipe
Though a little more then I like to spent I’d buy one just for the sheer awesomeness.

Now I do not know if it would fit my Convoys and still i d be left with a perfectly fine C8 head. So even after opening this thread a couple of times to say yes incamt justify it.

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By the way, have you thought about PVD-coating? You like good looking things, how would external parts look after a year?

Hoop
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As far as I know there are two styles of thread on the Convoy C8. A really old version with triangular threads and a newer one with truncated triangular threads. If there’s also a square thread version I’ll scrap the C8 head concept entirely.

As for making a whole light, if I made all of the parts S2+ compatible, the parts could be purchased individually, which some might consider a benefit. If the body were made from tube it would be out of a different alloy of copper than the rest of the parts, but no big deal. The ID of the tube would be .75” which is about .02” [.5mm] larger than the stock S2+, but also no big deal. A stock C8 has a .740” ID so it’s close.

PVD coating is insanely expensive, but black chrome is a good option, and also Cerakote. My experiences with plating companies are always mixed.

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Just one guy’s opinion over here, but I’m a lot less interested if its PVD coated. I want real copper and I want to feel it with my hands, not hide it under a coating.

I’ve got a Cerakote light. Its not nearly as scratch-resistant as a good type-3 ano. And again I wouldn’t want something coated over all that beautiful copper underneath.

Hoop
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Nah, PVD is not an option. Black chrome is an option, and is what they put on Lamborghini rims and stuff. It looks great. Brown oxidized copper ain’t all that pretty in comparison and it makes your hands smell funny.

I added a simple CAD rendering to the OP.

will34
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The rendering looks amazing! I can imagine it on a C8 body already LOL

I’ll try to get some macro shots of my C8 V3 when I get home so it can be determined if they’re square or truncated triangular. IIRC they are not 100% square, I have a V3 from last year and another one ordered just recently, the parts are interchangeable but the finish of the newer one is less matte.

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kiriba-ru wrote:
When BLF-members make their reviews, they always call threads that have trapezoidal shape “square threads”.

I don’t. I describe them as triangular, trapezoidal, and square just based on their shape and being a layman when it comes to machining; I don’t recall seeing anything other than those three on flashlights.

Also, sorry for any confusion above. I always think back to my 3 year old Convoy XML C8 (presumably V1?) as having triangular threads; however, as I just checked and they are actually trapezoidal on the battery tube.

The “ThorFire C8s” both removeable pill and integrated shelf version have square threads. I believe they have yet another version of the C8, the “ThorFire C8” I don’t know anything about it apart from it having a removeable pill.

Hoop
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Trapezoidal threads, which have a 29° included angle for acme, 30° for metric, are easily confused with square threads so that’s understandable. Most square threads are actually the “modified square” profile which has a 5° angle per side, 10° included, like those on the Thorfire C8S.

A lot of folks call the truncated triangular threads square also which I tend to call out when I see it. Wink Triangular threads have a 60° included angle.

I do not currently have the capability to cut square threads, but I can cut trapezoidal (acme) threads.

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I’m in.

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I’m at home, so here’s a photo of the threads on my Convoy C8. Mine’s a bit older, has the removable pill instead of the shelf. Its worth noting that parts to this light are interchangeable with a Thorfire C8s that I also have.

I’m not a machinist, but I’m pretty sure these are the trapezoidal threads you’re all talking about, yes? If its not the same threads as the latest lights then I’ll buy a new one. Not a big deal.

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