New experiment in Israel - Pay per Mile

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Haggai
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New experiment in Israel - Pay per Mile

So the Israeli government has found another way to milk car owners' money. Not only do they charge more than 100% tax on fuel and about 100% tax on purchasing a new car, they began an experiment in "pay per mile" (well, "pay per kilometer", but "mile" sounds better).

A few hundred volunteers installed the system in their cars - a GPS wirelessly (I think) connected to a central system which monitors the car's position every minute. Then the car owner pays tax according to its mileage. They say this will replace some of the above mentioned taxes, but I bet my car that it will cost more for the average driver than before.

I hope they fail. Miserably.

Yell

Lensman
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They won't fail Haggai, I wish I could say differently. I felt the same way about the London central zone congestion charge which was implemented a few years ago. I sat back and, in my naivitee, looked forward to a motorists' rebellion. Nothing of the sort. Everyone did just what they always do: divided up into two groups (three if you include the group who have no opinion about anything ever). On one side the sycophantic sheep who voiced loud and self righteous approval of the scheme, on the other side the complainants who, with some justification, moaned long and just as loudly. Bottom line, everyone went ahead and did exactly as they were told, as per usual.

It's a variation on a theme, that of treating the motorist as a bottomless money pit. These measures are only the beginning. We already have long stretches of toll roads, very similar to your country's 'pay as you go' scheme, and without a doubt, sooner or later this will be extended nationwide to cover all roads.

I might find it more bearable if public transport over here were more (1) Affordable (2) Reliable (3) Comfortable (4) Convenient, and/or if the money raised from robbing motorists really did go towards improving and/or subsidising trains and buses. But it doesn't.. |(

scaru
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You could get this. 

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-cigarette-lighter-anti-tracker-gps-jammer-blocker-max-10m-coverage-35827

Just plug it in when you get into the car then unplug it when you park your car back in the garage. Silly 

scaru
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Lensman wrote:

They won't fail Haggai, I wish I could say differently. I felt the same way about the London central zone congestion charge which was implemented a few years ago. I sat back and, in my naivitee, looked forward to a motorists' rebellion. Nothing of the sort. Everyone did just what they always do: divided up into two groups (three if you include the group who have no opinion about anything ever). On one side the sycophantic sheep who voiced loud and self righteous approval of the scheme, on the other side the complainants who, with some justification, moaned long and just as loudly. Bottom line, everyone went ahead and did exactly as they were told, as per usual.

It's a variation on a theme, that of treating the motorist as a bottomless money pit. These measures are only the beginning. We already have long stretches of toll roads, very similar to your country's 'pay as you go' scheme, and without a doubt, sooner or later this will be extended nationwide to cover all roads.

I might find it more bearable if public transport over here were more (1) Affordable (2) Reliable (3) Comfortable (4) Convenient, and/or if the money raised from robbing motorists really did go towards improving and/or subsidising trains and buses. But it doesn't.. |(

Don't ever count on the sheeple to do anything. If what I've hear about london is true you are probably one of the minorities there, caring about rights and paying attention to what the goverment is doing. Silly As you can tell I have a great love for England. Smile

CheapThrills
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If everyone just stopped driving cars, they would take tax money elsewhere.

They usually claim taxing cars because of environment but it is just the cold cash. If the environment were the real cause, many taxes at least here would be differently made or obsolete.

 

For example:

We have a yearly tax based on carbon emission (i.e. engine size).

So, if you have a V8 which you drive 300miles a summer at nice weather, you pay more tax per year than me doing 25000 miles.

Guess which has more emissions?

Naturally we have also tons of taxes in gas.

 

All taxes to cars whatsoever should be in FUEL and in fuel only.

If you use, you pay, use more, you pay more. 

If we raise taxes for just keeping a car, I cannot see why then justify it by reducing emissions. For example, many families need 2 cars but the second one tends to be a beater used only very occasionally but still, it is a must. Gets expensive to keep it even you don´t drive much.

 

Insane IMO.

T.H.Cone
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We all get the government we deserve and/or tolerate.  I think that if everyone could rap their minds around the concept of Liberty espoused in this short video and then applied a bit of third grade math to the many issues we face the world would be infinitely better place.    

I will say that I give this thread a less than 50/50 chance of not spiraling out of control due to it's political nature. 

fidem, prae caeteris omnibus praeter honestatem

 

 

Don't be confused, my Username has been changed from "Cone" to "T.H.Cone".  I'm still the same clown.

Haggai
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Lensman, your country's (and especially city's) public transport is beyond the wildest dreams of public transport here.

I visited England twice and Scotland once and was amazed at how convenient public transport is, frequent, punctual, and even runs on Sundays. (here there's practically none on Saturdays, except for a very reduced service of intra-city buses in Haifa).

Here, private car owning (and a lot of use) is almost mandatory. It's almost inelastic demand, so the public will have no choice but to pay. Or rebel. So we'll pay, because public protests are a joke here.

CheapThrills
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Haggai wrote:

Lensman, your country's (and especially city's) public transport is beyond the wildest dreams of public transport here.

I visited England twice and Scotland once and was amazed at how convenient public transport is, frequent, punctual, and even runs on Sundays. (here there's practically none on Saturdays, except for a very reduced service of intra-city buses in Haifa).

Here, private car owning (and a lot of use) is almost mandatory. It's almost inelastic demand, so the public will have no choice but to pay. Or rebel. So we'll pay, because public protests are a joke here.

 

Yep...

Check out sometimes from wiki, how many people live in Finland, then check the population density per sq mile.

I bet you get my point just looking up that one. Too few users, no efficient public transport in less inhabited places.

scaru
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Ron Paul 2012!!!

T.H.Cone
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scaru wrote:

Ron Paul 2012!!!

The last best hope for the Republic.

fidem, prae caeteris omnibus praeter honestatem

 

 

Don't be confused, my Username has been changed from "Cone" to "T.H.Cone".  I'm still the same clown.

scaru
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scaru
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cone wrote:

scaru wrote:

Ron Paul 2012!!!

The last best hope for the Republic.

Yep, but sadly there is basically no way he is going to win. :'(

wiljen
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Nevermind the tax, the privacy implications of that are heinous.

T.H.Cone
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Scaru... Wiljen... you are preaching to the choir.

fidem, prae caeteris omnibus praeter honestatem

 

 

Don't be confused, my Username has been changed from "Cone" to "T.H.Cone".  I'm still the same clown.

scaru
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Kind of surprised no one has jumped in to argue with us. Silly As the only libertarian in my family it gets interesting at times. 

T.H.Cone
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I think the problem is that, historically, these types of threads on BLF (or anywhere) quickly spiral out of control and people can't seem to have a discussion where there will be no consensus, then shake hands and walk away still friends.

fidem, prae caeteris omnibus praeter honestatem

 

 

Don't be confused, my Username has been changed from "Cone" to "T.H.Cone".  I'm still the same clown.

scaru
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True, just look at ISTL's thread. Wink

T.H.Cone
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That was only the most recent example.  I don't know if you've seen the video I linked to in post 5, but you may want to pass it around to the non-libertarians in your life.  The light bulb may just go off for one or two.  It really lays out the philosophy in a concise and cogent way which, coupled with the vids soothing music, is hard to argue against.

fidem, prae caeteris omnibus praeter honestatem

 

 

Don't be confused, my Username has been changed from "Cone" to "T.H.Cone".  I'm still the same clown.

Lensman
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It's not that, cone. Just that I've no clue as to who 'Ron Paul' is.. No offense, I've no idea who most British politicians are, either. I'm afraid I've become so cynical that I no longer quite believe that democracy is actually 'real', that is, that the voting counts for anything. 

Before someone asks me "Well ok then, who do you think IS in charge?" I have to say I honestly have no idea, it's just getting harder all the time to believe that there isn't some  organisation deciding who's going to be the next government, and then anouncing that she/he/they got the most votes. I just find it hard to believe that twice, in recent UK history, two of the most universally hated human beings on the planet (I refer to Blair and Thatcher) each got voted back into power for a third term. And if it IS actually true, then what value to this so-called 'democracy'?

scaru
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Ron Paul is a presidential candidate in the US. 

scaru
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Lensman, you believe in the new world order to? Silly

Haggai
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Oh no, I started a monster. :/

cehowardGS
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cone wrote:

I think the problem is that, historically, these types of threads on BLF (or anywhere) quickly spiral out of control and people can't seem to have a discussion where there will be no consensus, then shake hands and walk away still friends.

+1

Correctly said..

Don't they have a section for political talk?  IMO, this place is for lights, I hope they keep it that way...

70+, Old, Dirty and Fast..

T.H.Cone
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Haggai wrote:

Oh no, I started a monster. :/

I change my prediction, this thread is 100% likely to spin out of control.

fidem, prae caeteris omnibus praeter honestatem

 

 

Don't be confused, my Username has been changed from "Cone" to "T.H.Cone".  I'm still the same clown.

scaru
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cone wrote:

Haggai wrote:

Oh no, I started a monster. :/

I change my prediction, this thread is 100% likely to spin out of control.

I'd say that's optimistic. I have a way of starting political arguments. Smile

scaru
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Do you guys seriously think elections are fair? All that matters is money. 

Lensman
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The only NWO I know of is by Ministry. Totally brilliant (if you like your metal loud, angry and genuine J) ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhthPDycHB0

If Ron Paul is a humanitarian, libertarian, decent, honourable genuine man, then I'm afraid he's got two chances of election: absolute zero and non-existent. The powers that be - whoever they are - will never allow it. And since Ron Paul's probably got more than enough supporters to get him elected, the fact that we all know he won't just adds weight to my 'conspiricy theory' that it's all a con and a lie. Personally, I believe that the 'conspiricy' is the idea that it's any of it is genuine. That's the' conspiricy'.

Lensman
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No, we're ok re the 'out of control' thing. If anyone tries to steer it that way we can all bow out and leave whoever wants to start WW3 to their own company Wink

T.H.Cone
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Lensman wrote:

It's not that, cone. Just that I've no clue as to who 'Ron Paul' is.. No offense, I've no idea who most British politicians are, either. I'm afraid I've become so cynical that I no longer quite believe that democracy is actually 'real', that is, that the voting counts for anything. 

Before someone asks me "Well ok then, who do you think IS in charge?" I have to say I honestly have no idea, it's just getting harder all the time to believe that there isn't some  organisation deciding who's going to be the next government, and then anouncing that she/he/they got the most votes. I just find it hard to believe that twice, in recent UK history, two of the most universally hated human beings on the planet (I refer to Blair and Thatcher) each got voted back into power for a third term. And if it IS actually true, then what value to this so-called 'democracy'?

What scaru said.  You can think of him as your Daniel Hannan or Nigel Farage.  I love those two Brits.

 

As for this quote of yours, "It's just getting harder all the time to believe that there isn't some organization deciding who's going to be the next government."  I don't know what it's called in the UK, but here it is called the CFR.  And this is the scariest book I've read in a long, long, time.  It goes a long way to explaining  why things are the way they are.  

 


fidem, prae caeteris omnibus praeter honestatem

 

 

Don't be confused, my Username has been changed from "Cone" to "T.H.Cone".  I'm still the same clown.

scaru
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Lensman wrote:

The only NWO I know of is by Ministry. Totally brilliant (if you like your metal loud, angry and genuine J) ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhthPDycHB0

If Ron Paul is a humanitarian, libertarian, decent, honourable genuine man, then I'm afraid he's got two chances of election: absolute zero and non-existent. The powers that be - whoever they are - will never allow it. And since Ron Paul's probably got more than enough supporters to get him elected, the fact that we all know he won't just adds weight to my 'conspiricy theory' that it's all a con and a lie. Personally, I believe that the 'conspiricy' is the idea that it's any of it is genuine. That's the' conspiricy'.

NWO theory says that there is one authoritarian government controlling the whole world from behind the scenes. They are the explanation for why people with few supporters win elections. 

T.H.Cone
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scaru wrote:

Do you guys seriously think elections are fair? All that matters is money. 

Scaru, it's not the money, per se, it's the fact that most people are far too busy watching American Idol or what it is called in the UK and pay no attention to politics.  You see it all the time when people are asked who the VP is and they can't answer.  Or they don't know who their Congressman is.  Worse yet, they argue from emotion and not logic... they repeat things the hear without knowing if it is true... and they are intellectually dishonest. 

fidem, prae caeteris omnibus praeter honestatem

 

 

Don't be confused, my Username has been changed from "Cone" to "T.H.Cone".  I'm still the same clown.

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