Useful Li-Ion battery site

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torchythebatteryboy
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Useful Li-Ion battery site

It’s in German, but easy to follow.
Loads of information on all sizes of Li-Ion batteries.

http://www.dampfakkus.de/

NightCrawl
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Oh ze crazy Germans!

MattSPL
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Some good info, thanks.

torchythebatteryboy
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The site should soon be updated in English

sixty545
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Very useful, thanks.
Regarding TrustFire 18650-3000 this is much more in line with my own measurements than HKJ’s “lucky sample” of that cell.

torchythebatteryboy
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sixty545 wrote:
Very useful, thanks. Regarding TrustFire 18650-3000 this is much more in line with my own measurements than HKJ’s “lucky sample” of that cell.

The Trustfire 3000 and 2400mAh are really low in these tests. When I tested them, they were almost identical at around 2600mAh. I asked Trustfire if they had used the same cells, but they insisted that in their tests the 3000 produces over 2900mAh.
I bought direct from Trustfire, maybe it’s going the way of Ultrafire with lower quality fakes out there.

sixty545
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torchythebatteryboy wrote:
sixty545 wrote:
Very useful, thanks. Regarding TrustFire 18650-3000 this is much more in line with my own measurements than HKJ’s “lucky sample” of that cell.

The Trustfire 3000 and 2400mAh are really low in these tests. When I tested them, they were almost identical at around 2600mAh. I asked Trustfire if they had used the same cells, but they insisted that in their tests the 3000 produces over 2900mAh.
I bought direct from Trustfire, maybe it’s going the way of Ultrafire with lower quality fakes out there.


I bought mine (4 pc) from Manafont the same day (and because of) that HKJ published his measurements of the same battery from Manafont. The package with a pair looked and was marked identical to his. Mine are really bad, all 4, worse than my unprot TF2400 from DD, which were quite good.
torchythebatteryboy
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Sounds like there is either poor quality control, or Ultrafire syndrome.

torchythebatteryboy
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Interesting that the batteries are tested at 2A, 3A, and 5A discharge and not 1A.

Chicago X
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I hate it when my fakkus gets damp…

http://wardogsmakingithome.org/index.html

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HKJ
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torchythebatteryboy wrote:
Interesting that the batteries are tested at 2A, 3A, and 5A discharge and not 1A.

I believe that test are done for e-cig users and they mostly uses these current levels.

They do also like getting a lot of voltage on their e-cig's, my barchart with discharge to 3.6 volt was very popular in e-cig circles.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

torchythebatteryboy
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HKJ wrote:

torchythebatteryboy wrote:
Interesting that the batteries are tested at 2A, 3A, and 5A discharge and not 1A.

I believe that test are done for e-cig users and they mostly uses these current levels.

They do also like getting a lot of voltage on their e-cig’s, my barchart with discharge to 3.6 volt was very popular in e-cig circles.

2A seems pretty high for 10440 and 14500.

HKJ
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torchythebatteryboy wrote:
2A seems pretty high for 10440 and 14500.

It is, that is the reason many of these batteries has very low capacity in the test. There is also a fair amount of IMR batteries, they can better handle the current.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

SabbelMR
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Hi folks :),

may I introduce myself – I am “half of dampfakkus.de” so to speak, the other half is “sk4477”.

First of all, thank you all for your feedback! We’re glad that the information in our database seems to be helpful to you folks, too.

Now to some of your questions:

1.)
Yes, our project comes from the vaping community. However, we do like you flashlight guys and I think our motivation is the same – finding the best value for price in batteries..

2.)
For vapers, 2A is the usual minimum battery load. Reason is that the most simple replaceable battery vaping devices contain a 3.7V li-ion battery, a manual switch and a connector for a simple heating coil with a coil resistance of typically 1.5 to 2.0 ohm, depending on personal taste.

Then there is more advanced “adjustable voltage” devices that use “step-up” / “boosting” voltage regulation. These can fire the heating unit with as much as 6 or 7V, powered by a single 3.7V li-ion battery. So naturally, these devices would often drain 5A or even somewhat more from the single 3.7V li-ion battery.

So generally spoken, vapers are interested in battery performance at 2A to 5A load, depending on their device choice.

Thats why we chose to do 2A, 3A and 5A graphs for 18650 size and 2A / 3A or just 2A graphs for some smaller sizes.

3.)
Please consider, however, that vapers take draws of usually approx. 5 seconds from their devices, so all of this is not continuous load. It is almost “peak” load, not really but almost.

4.)
We do realize that 2A is a lot of current for 14500 or even 10440 or RCR123A / 16340 cells. That is also why in these sizes, we tend to recommend IMR batteries for vaping purposes, although 2A peak should be tolerable for most 14500 ICRs, for instance.

However, what we learned is that even for bigger sizes (18650), you can usually tell good from mediocre cells at approx. 3A load. At 1A, even some mediocre 18650 cells would show good performance. However, I do expect a 18650 ICR cell with a typical capacity of 2000mAh or above to perform well at 2A – 4A, as 2C load for ICR is industry standard. So I would never call a 18650 cell that shows good real capacity at 1A, but no longer at 2A or 3A any good.

That, and the fact that drain below 2A is practically irrelevant for vapers, is the reason why we also give the “real capacity” measured at 2A, 3.0V discharge cutoff.

Of course, this leads to some low measurements for the smaller sizes, but again, I’d say it helps you tell really excellent from mediocre or bad batteries. There is 16340, 14500 or even 10440 batteries, even ICRs, that perform well at 2A. If you go for these, you can be sure to get a good battery, can’t you?

5.)
Now please correct me if I am wrong, I am so new into the flashlight thing (just bought by first 1x Cree T6 1× 18650 Flashlight and love it ;)):

How relevant is 1A drain for say 18650 size for you flashlight guys, practically? Don’t most flashlights drain at least something like 1.75-2A, too, from an 18650 battery?

6.)
As for the German domain name:

Yeah, may sound stupid in English :). We are working on an English translation and there will be a more “international” domain that redirects to the English version of the site..

Again, thanks for all your feedback, folks! You’re awesome!

HKJ
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SabbelMR wrote:
How relevant is 1A drain for say 18650 size for you flashlight guys, _practically_? Don't most flashlights drain at least something like 1.75-2A, too, from an 18650 battery?

On high a flashlight will often draw 2A or more, but most lights has multiple brightness settings and the low levels has a current drain that is much lower. In my reviews you can often find a table with current drain at the different brightness settings or even a curve that shows how the current drain varies with voltage.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

torchythebatteryboy
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SabbelMR wrote:
Hi folks :),

may I introduce myself – I am “half of dampfakkus.de” so to speak, the other half is “sk4477”.

First of all, thank you all for your feedback! We’re glad that the information in our database seems to be helpful to you folks, too.

Now to some of your questions:

1.)
Yes, our project comes from the vaping community. However, we do like you flashlight guys and I think our motivation is the same – finding the best value for price in batteries..

2.)
For vapers, 2A is the usual minimum battery load. Reason is that the most simple replaceable battery vaping devices contain a 3.7V li-ion battery, a manual switch and a connector for a simple heating coil with a coil resistance of typically 1.5 to 2.0 ohm, depending on personal taste.

Then there is more advanced “adjustable voltage” devices that use “step-up” / “boosting” voltage regulation. These can fire the heating unit with as much as 6 or 7V, powered by a single 3.7V li-ion battery. So naturally, these devices would often drain 5A or even somewhat more from the single 3.7V li-ion battery.

So generally spoken, vapers are interested in battery performance at 2A to 5A load, depending on their device choice.

Thats why we chose to do 2A, 3A and 5A graphs for 18650 size and 2A / 3A or just 2A graphs for some smaller sizes.

3.)
Please consider, however, that vapers take draws of usually approx. 5 seconds from their devices, so all of this is not continuous load. It is almost “peak” load, not really but almost.

4.)
We do realize that 2A is a lot of current for 14500 or even 10440 or RCR123A / 16340 cells. That is also why in these sizes, we tend to recommend IMR batteries for vaping purposes, although 2A peak should be tolerable for most 14500 ICRs, for instance.

However, what we learned is that even for bigger sizes (18650), you can usually tell good from mediocre cells at approx. 3A load. At 1A, even some mediocre 18650 cells would show good performance. However, I do expect a 18650 ICR cell with a typical capacity of 2000mAh or above to perform well at 2A – 4A, as 2C load for ICR is industry standard. So I would never call a 18650 cell that shows good real capacity at 1A, but no longer at 2A or 3A any good.

That, and the fact that drain below 2A is practically irrelevant for vapers, is the reason why we also give the “real capacity” measured at 2A, 3.0V discharge cutoff.

Of course, this leads to some low measurements for the smaller sizes, but again, I’d say it helps you tell really excellent from mediocre or bad batteries. There is 16340, 14500 or even 10440 batteries, even ICRs, that perform well at 2A. If you go for these, you can be sure to get a good battery, can’t you?

5.)
Now please correct me if I am wrong, I am so new into the flashlight thing (just bought by first 1x Cree T6 1× 18650 Flashlight and love it ;)):

How relevant is 1A drain for say 18650 size for you flashlight guys, practically? Don’t most flashlights drain at least something like 1.75-2A, too, from an 18650 battery?

6.)
As for the German domain name:

Yeah, may sound stupid in English :). We are working on an English translation and there will be a more “international” domain that redirects to the English version of the site..

Again, thanks for all your feedback, folks! You’re awesome!

Thanks for a really cool site.

budynabuick
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Good too have you here SabbelMR. Enjoyed your post. Very informative as I am preparing my foray into vaping. Can’t wait for the English version of your site. Thanks for your efforts.

Keith

Chicago X
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Please don’t take my weak attempt at humor as a critique of your fine site, SabbeIMR – I truly appreciate the data !

http://wardogsmakingithome.org/index.html

War Dogs, Making it Home - Rescue Dogs for Returning Vets

SabbelMR
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Glad to announce our “battery comparator” (compare up to 6 graphs) is now officially working:

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akku_auswahl.php

And Smile ..

@ HKJ

Thanks for the valuable information! Love your site (and always did) by the way!

@ Chicago X

No, I did not get you wrong, don’t worry ;).

@ torchy, budynabuick

Thank you both!

budynabuick
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Chicago X wrote:
Please don’t take my weak attempt at humor as a critique of your fine site, SabbeIMR – I truly appreciate the data !

I thought it was a great attempt at humor as I never could stand it when my fakkus got damp. If I got it, I’m sure SabbelMR did. BTW, what exactly is a ‘fakkus?’

Keith

SabbelMR
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budynabuick wrote:
I thought it was a great attempt at humor as I never could stand it when my fakkus got damp. If I got it, I’m sure SabbelMR did.

Well, I did actually understand that it was a great attempt at humor, but as a non-native speaker all I understood was something about moisture and … well probably we should draw a line here :)..

Quote:
BTW, what exactly is a ‘fakkus?’

Hehe, there is no such word..

It’s Dampf Akkus, where Dampf = Vape and Akkus = rechargeable batteries (in German we’ve got Batterie = primary battery and Akku = rechargeable battery, as in “accumulator”…).

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Excellent work there on the site. Thanks for the effort and input here.

 

djozz quotes, "it came with chinese lettering that is chinese to me".

                      "My man mousehole needs one too"

old4570 said "I'm not an expert , so don't suffer from any such technical restrictions".

Old-Lumens. Highly admired and cherished member of Budget Light Forum. 11.5.2011 - 20.12.16. RIP.

 

scheven_architect
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dumb fuckas ? original website :d

 

 
SabbelMR
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scheven_architect wrote:
dumb fuckas ? original website :d

Pardon?

Smile

NightCrawl
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Good example for the reason why humor works best on an international level if it's funny without words (like Mr. Bean).

Obviously, the German word "dampfakkus" (which is plural of "dampfakku") can be misread as damp fakkus.

So, just like ChiX doesnt like when his fakkus gets damp, scheven took it to a whole new level, making it "dumb fukkas". Big Smile

I'm curious about how the Efest cells will perform.

Btw. are those SMR cells still available? And which cells are inside? Seem to be better than AWs.

SabbelMR
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NightCrawl wrote:

Good example for the reason why humor works best on an international level if it’s funny without words (like Mr. Bean).

Obviously, the German word “dampfakkus” (which is plural of “dampfakku”) can be misread as damp fakkus.


Yeah.

And … that would be, eh, let’s try to re-wrap it politely, something about moisture and people you dislike :)?

Quote:
So, just like ChiX doesnt like when his fakkus gets damp, scheven took it to a whole new level, making it “dumb fukkas”. Big Smile

Oh my god we should have chosen a different domain name in the first place :).

But I am glad that we could contribute some entertainment, too ;). As I said, a more international domain name that will redirect to an english version of the same site is on its way.

Quote:
I’m curious about how the Efest cells will perform.

What I can tell you is that EFest IMR 14650, 18500 (flat top) and 18650-1500 are the well-known “BDL” aka “BIOIMR, technically unchanged (proven by measurements, not all of them posted yet though) but now with EFest branding.


As for EFest IMR 18350, 14500 and 16340, these are different from the former BDL/BIO types. Optically, aside from the EFest branding, the positive pole has changed.

The EFest IMR 18350 “flat top” (raised flat top actually) outperforms the BDL/BIO IMR 18350 and can now be stacked, is however still not as good as the AW IMR 18350:

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=49


However, EFest is coming up with button top versions of some of their sizes, and the EFest IMR 18350 “button top”, on the other hand, performs worse than the EFest IMR 18350 “flat top”:

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=49&akku2=47&akku3=146&a=2


The rather new EFest IMR 18650-2000 however performed reasonably well. We will be able to show graphs soon.

Quote:
Btw. are those SMR cells still available? And which cells are inside? Seem to be better than AWs.

The SMR IMR outperformed the AW IMR in 14500 for instance – yes.

But no, they are not publically available and probably never will be. They were made according to my own spec for me by a battery factory as a “proof of concept” that good value for money is possible (IMR 14500 was 2.30 EUR, IMR 18350 2.50 EUR, IMR 18500 3.40 EUR and IMR 18650 3.70 EUR) for a group order at our German vaping forum.

torchythebatteryboy
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SabbelMR wrote:
NightCrawl wrote:

Good example for the reason why humor works best on an international level if it’s funny without words (like Mr. Bean).

Obviously, the German word “dampfakkus” (which is plural of “dampfakku”) can be misread as damp fakkus.


Yeah.

And … that would be, eh, let’s try to re-wrap it politely, something about moisture and people you dislike :)?

Quote:
So, just like ChiX doesnt like when his fakkus gets damp, scheven took it to a whole new level, making it “dumb fukkas”. Big Smile

Oh my god we should have chosen a different domain name in the first place :).

But I am glad that we could contribute some entertainment, too ;). As I said, a more international domain name that will redirect to an english version of the same site is on its way.

Quote:
I’m curious about how the Efest cells will perform.

What I can tell you is that EFest IMR 14650, 18500 (flat top) and 18650-1500 are the well-known “BDL” aka “BIOIMR, technically unchanged (proven by measurements, not all of them posted yet though) but now with EFest branding.


As for EFest IMR 18350, 14500 and 16340, these are different from the former BDL/BIO types. Optically, aside from the EFest branding, the positive pole has changed.

The EFest IMR 18350 “flat top” (raised flat top actually) outperforms the BDL/BIO IMR 18350 and can now be stacked, is however still not as good as the AW IMR 18350:

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=49


However, EFest is coming up with button top versions of some of their sizes, and the EFest IMR 18350 “button top”, on the other hand, performs worse than the EFest IMR 18350 “flat top”:

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkuvergleich.php?akku1=49&akku2=47&akku3=146&a=2


The rather new EFest IMR 18650-2000 however performed reasonably well. We will be able to show graphs soon.

Quote:
Btw. are those SMR cells still available? And which cells are inside? Seem to be better than AWs.

The SMR IMR outperformed the AW IMR in 14500 for instance – yes.

But no, they are not publically available and probably never will be. They were made according to my own spec for me by a battery factory as a “proof of concept” that good value for money is possible (IMR 14500 was 2.30 EUR, IMR 18350 2.50 EUR, IMR 18500 3.40 EUR and IMR 18650 3.70 EUR) for a group order at our German vaping forum.

I found that the Efest IMR 2000mAh had a rather high internal resistance and got very hot at high currents. I suggested an alternative cell to use before they get into the full swing of production.

SabbelMR
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Hi torchy,

what current did you test the EFest IMR 18650 2000 at?

Probably we are talking of a different battery, as mine was a pre-production sample. Perhaps I can send one of my samples to you for comparison.

I will e-mail you later :)..

Cathyly
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torchythebatteryboy wrote:
It’s in German, but easy to follow.
Loads of information on all sizes of Li-Ion batteries.

http://www.dampfakkus.de/

i want to drive a 120w 12v DC motor How should I choose a combination of reasonable battery life, I need to bring the battery as much as possible the quality of small so it is necessary and reasonable arrangements for the battery and the capacity of each block in about 10-20 minutes.

Nice all around light! http://bit.ly/TITiKI
SabbelMR
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Cathyly wrote:
i want to drive a 120w 12v DC motor How should I choose a combination of reasonable battery life, I need to bring the battery as much as possible the quality of small so it is necessary and reasonable arrangements for the battery and the capacity of each block in about 10-20 minutes.

Go for a serial / parallel combination of a modern high-current ~2.2Ah 18650 cell like for instance Panasonic CGR18650CH, Samsung 18650-22P or Sony US18650V3 (all three LiNiCoMn chemistry and capable up to 10A / cell, so you just need approximately half the number of cells as opposed to classic LiCoO2 / ICR chemistry cells to deliver the same amperage).


There also are some good LiNiCoMn 26650 cells like Kingpower (Kingkong) INR 26650 or Microvast 26650 LiNiCoMn cells – you may want to check if a combination of these gives you more energy density or cost effectiveness for your particular setup.


Oh and you will need balancing and some sort of PCB, of course.


But I guess this is somewhat off-topic here. There is e-mobility forums out there (e-bikers) where people are more into battery pack building.


And there is a lot of companies that would customly design battery packs according to your spec, maybe you want to look out for such a vendor for professional consultation.

Brown345
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Cathyly wrote:
torchythebatteryboy wrote:
It’s in German, but easy to follow.
Loads of information on all sizes of Li-Ion batteries.

http://www.dampfakkus.de/

i want to drive a 120w 12v DC motor How should I choose a combination of reasonable battery life, I need to bring the battery as much as possible the quality of small so it is necessary and reasonable arrangements for the battery and the capacity of each block in about 10-20 minutes.

120W12V DC motor rated current is about 10A, the battery energy storage for 20 minutes work a maximum power of 120W 40Wh capacity of the battery pack needs about 12V4Ah with lithium-ion batteries power batteries.
Recommended by the combination of manganese lithium-polymer battery

Smile 

I'll be alright. One day. Someday. Just not today. keep looking!

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