An Idiot's Guide to 18650's - Under Construction

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agenthex
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Chicago X
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sintro
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Shadowww wrote:
sintro wrote:
The highest capacity 18650 right now is the Panasonic 3400mah cell. You actually have to charge it to 4.35v though. But they also have a 3100mah cell that you only have to charge to the regular 4.2v.
Erm. The Panasonic’s 3400mAh cell (NCR18650B) has charge termination voltage of 4.2V, just like their 3100mAh NCR18650A cell. Panasonic doesn’t produces 4.35V cells.

I’m just confused about this. Most sellers say 4.35v, while some forumers say 4.2v. But a trusted site like Orbtronic says 4.2v. Do you have a product page for the NCR18650B?

sintro
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agenthex wrote:
sintro wrote:
f42 wrote:
Hello again, thanks all, and thanks sintro, Gimpy and torchythebatteryboy for the replies…

I don’t think the batteries I ordered have protection, I ordered them to use with TrustFire T1 (uses 2 x 18650 in serial connection)

I checked all the ebay and other websites they all sell flashlights that uses multiple li-ion with cheap batteries without protection (they even claim 4000 mAH) in bundle with real cheap chargers. If it is dangerous how and why they sell these?

Most of those sellers are in china. So they don’t really have a risk of getting sued like in the United States. I myself used to look at them, but they just seemed to good to be true, so I did some reading for a few weeks on CPF, and then found out about this site.

The highest capacity 18650 right now is the Panasonic 3400mah cell. You actually have to charge it to 4.35v though. But they also have a 3100mah cell that you only have to charge to the regular 4.2v.

Basically, those sellers sell fake cells and bad chargers just to make some money! Now, they are super dangerous. I’m sure they would get alot more scrutiny from everyone if every single person bought those crap ebay cells and chargers, like they do aa alkalines. There would be many more injuries from them, and the lawsuits would follow.

This is a good example of what happens when people take CPF seriously. Tens of thousands of these supposedly “super dangerous” items have been sold, and yet nary a whiff of the wholesale destruction they’re predicted to cause.

In science, we call that a failed hypothesis, the domain of cranks and their adherents.

Sorry about that, I meant to say ARENT! You probably think I’m a battery safety worrywart now.

agenthex
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Chicago X wrote:
BLF is the carpet.

More deep thoughts from our resident CPF mod.

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agenthex
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sintro wrote:
Sorry about that, I meant to say ARENT! You probably think I’m a battery safety worrywart now.

Fake just about anything exists on ebay but constitutes a minority of sales. Designer bags, tools, etc, caveat emptor. It is after all not a store but a facilitator.

Just buy from manafont or whatever if paranoid, just like IRL best buy is less risky than craigslist.

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Gimpy
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agenthex wrote:
In science, we call that a failed hypothesis, the domain of cranks and their adherents.

Possibly… although we may have a sampling bias, here. What percentage of the flashlight community do forum members make up? I really have no idea. I would think it would be a fairly good chunk, but I don’t know. The forum members, I would think, would be the sort of people who would do a bit of research before buying/using this stuff, thereby limiting the kinds of risky behavior that might bring about an accident. At the very least, they’re more likely to see the safety rants.

edit

What’s the accident rate among non-forum flashlight users? We’d never hear about em if they didn’t join.

agenthex
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Gimpy wrote:
agenthex wrote:
In science, we call that a failed hypothesis, the domain of cranks and their adherents.

Possibly… although we may have a sampling bias, here. What percentage of the flashlight community do forum members make up? I really have no idea. I would think it would be a fairly good chunk, but I don’t know. The forum members, I would think, would be the sort of people who would do a bit of research before buying/using this stuff, thereby limiting the kinds of risky behavior that might bring about an accident. At the very least, they’re more likely to see the safety rants.

edit

What’s the accident rate among non-forum flashlight users? We’d never hear about em if they didn’t join.

Given that bazillions of 18650’s are produced annually, and there are thousands of just current ebay auctions for them + chargers + flashlights/lasers/etc at any given time, the incident rate should be on seller ratings and whatnot (if not the news) if there were one at all. Even in the entire history of CPF with many thousands of members and likely 10x lurkers, there are maybe a handful of incidents, often reported from other sources internationally (like Vectrex’s link).

Frankly if we’re just listing guy hobbies, this probably has to rank as one of the safest other than stamp collecting.

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Gimpy
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agenthex wrote:

Frankly if we’re just listing guy hobbies, this probably has to rank as one of the safest other than stamp collecting.

I dunno, doode… paper cuts can be pretty nasty Smile

torchythebatteryboy
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sintro wrote:
Shadowww wrote:
sintro wrote:
The highest capacity 18650 right now is the Panasonic 3400mah cell. You actually have to charge it to 4.35v though. But they also have a 3100mah cell that you only have to charge to the regular 4.2v.
Erm. The Panasonic’s 3400mAh cell (NCR18650B) has charge termination voltage of 4.2V, just like their 3100mAh NCR18650A cell. Panasonic doesn’t produces 4.35V cells.

I’m just confused about this. Most sellers say 4.35v, while some forumers say 4.2v. But a trusted site like Orbtronic says 4.2v. Do you have a product page for the NCR18650B?

The Panasonic data sheet says 4.2v, I would go with that.
They do test from 4.2v down to 2.5v, 250mA current at 25 degrees, which results in a higher capacity result than my usual testing of 4.2 – 2.75v at 1A, 20 degrees.

Vectrex
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Quote from Battery University:

"Considering the number of lithium-ion batteries used on the market, this energy storage system has caused little harm in terms of damage and personal injury. In spite of the good record, its safety is a hot topic that gets high media attention, even on a minor mishap. This caution is good for the consumer because we will be assured that this popular energy storage device is safe. After the recall of Dell and Apple laptop batteries, cell manufacturers will not only try packing more energy into the pack but will attempt to make it more bulletproof. "

I really like their view on that subject and I think the same goes for threads like these.... even if the some "old", "few" horror stories are posted again and again, it gets peoples attention and makes them think about battery safety for a minute, or even better it let's them do some own research.

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Make yourself at home, f42!

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