Need suggestions on a new light for work

LED Flashlights – General Info
1

Hey guys, i never realized how nice it is to own a quality light until i purchased a jetbeam bc20 a few months back. Well, im ready to move on to something a little brighter to use at work. I was hoping for some advice on what to get next. I really enjoy the bc20. It is very durable and bright, and i really love the clicky tail switch and 2 mode twist bezel. I want something in the 5-600 lumen range but with the same style and operation as my present light, 2 cr123 and a body that is pretty close to what i have now. Anything come to mind? i can spend around-80 if possible. Thanks in advance

Ps: i personally hate lights that have a 2” bezel and 1” body. I really wanna stick to the style of the bc20 if i can.

2

I have the JB bc10 and use an aw rechargeable 123a battery and it seems to almost double the output with that battery. The light is rated at 270 on high with a standard battery. But with a rechargeable it is a pocket rocket, and you never need to buy another battery for it.

3

The bc20 is 305 lumen, i want something a little brighter in a package about the same size as the one i have.

4

Here ya go.

JetBeam BC25

5

You might want to check out the NiteCore MT26.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NiteCore-Multi-Task-MT26-800-Lumens-XM-L-LED-Light-Upgrade-Jetbeam-BC25-/170926276583?\_trksid=p5197.m1992&\_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D3283401116069244481%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D170926276583%26

6

Just found this, looks pretty close.

http://www.lightjunction.com/JETBeam-PA10-XML-Flashlight.html

This one looks tough:

http://www.lightjunction.com/jetbeam-jet-iii-m-XML-flashlight.html

What is the difference between a lumen and ANSI lumen?

7

I think on the PA10 the output is 140 on an AA battery, and you must use a 14500 battery to get the 600+ lumens with a 30 min runtime. It is a good looking light.

8

ok lots of questions and a lot of info.

Lumens - this is a bit like torque in a car engine. More is always good, but won’t tell the complete picture.

Lumens is amount of light, now some ratings are at the LED (no losses) and some are OTF (out the front). The head, lens and reflector will cause some lumens to be lost. So OTF is always lower than LED lumens.

ANSI FL1 is a standard and takes an OTF reading at 3 mins (iirc). This is done because some lights are very bright initially but will sag due to heat, cells, voltage. It’s done to help create a more comparable lumen figure.

Some budget Chinese lights however claim theoretical lumen output or just plain lie about it, so make sure you know what you are comparing too.

As for how bright a light is, it depends on if you want throw or flood beam profile. An XM-L offers the most lumens, but it’s a big LED and has low surface luminescence. This means in a small light it will offer up lots of lumens, but be very floody and not throw all that far. A lower lumen XP-G emitter in the same light will likely throw further but with a smaller hot spot and duller spill.

With regard to the PA10, well personally I’m not overly keen on JetBeams marketing claims - they seem rather false and missleading.

The PA10 is a 1xAA light that offers up 140 lumens and being an XM-L will be quite floody. To get 650 lumens you’ll need to run it on a li-ion 14500 battery (looks like an AA but is a different chemistry and needs a special charger).

This introduces some problems, the PA10 then loses all it’s modes and direct drives the LED. You get massive output, but it’s pretty useless as you’ll have no other modes to use.

Being a small light you won’t be able to run it on 650 lumens for more than a couple of mins at a time, there will be way too much heat.

Heat is going to be an issue for any small torch, so this is not unique to the PA10. But it’s something to bear in mind that almost no single cell light will be able to sustain 600 lumens out put due to heat.

If you like the PA10 form factor but want a more usable light you might want to consider the PC10, it uses a CR123A or an RCR li-ion. It makes 550 lumens on the li-ion but retains all its modes so is actually usable. It is however still a small light, so will be floody not throwy.

If you genuinely want 600 lumens maybe something like a Klarus XT11 or Solarforce L2 would be a better form factor. Just about pocket sized but more able to cope with the heat.

9

Ok, lot of info to grasp all at once. The beam I get from the bc20 serves me just fine so I’m not too concerned with throw/spill (yet). I like the idea of the cr123 batt because of convenience. They aren’t terribly expensive and I don’t want to charge batteries and one day forget and not have a light when I really need it. but let’s say I wanted the same light I have now, just a little brighter. How many lumen jump would I have to add to be happy with the new light, would i be happy with a jump from 305 to 400? I really like the design of the bc20, I wish they made it a little brighter. Could I throw the head from a pc10 onto my bc20 with a dummy cr123 to make the 550 or would the bezel and body be incompatible? The pc10 isn’t that much shorter than the bc20, and it has the same look, maybe I’ll try that one out. I can tell this won’t be the last light I purchase. Sorry for all the questions.

ETA: Just looking at the jetbeam lineup again, the pc10 is 550 on 1-cr123 and the pc20 is 410 on 2-cr123. Obviously I’ll have much better run times with the 20 (2 batts)

That Klarus is pretty sick too. I promised my girl I’d buy her a “really bright” flashlight like mine, so maybe I’ll grab her that pc10 and see if I like it for myself.

10

You won't see a difference between 305 and 400 (same beam pattern) unless maybe you are really good at analyzing the beam on a white wall. If I remember correctly, you need about 4 times the output to see "twice as bright" by eye. So perhaps you should be aiming for 500 to 600 to see a brightness increase (which still may be negligible).

-Garry

11

Ok so I’ll throw the bc20 idea out the window. What you said makes sense, I’m guessing inverse square law.

I just pulled the trigger on a bc10 (from batteryjunction) for my girl after realizing the price for the pc10 was double. 270 lumen is more than enough (for her light…)

I’ll be looking at the Klarus or the pa10 with that 14500 cell. Do they make those disposable or only rechargeable? Also, where do you guys shop, any specific forum sponsors you recommend I go through? Damn, I was really hoping to keep that rotating bezel, all those trick SOS and strobe modes are gonna annoy me.

12

For battery orders, see BLF's KumaBear's offerings (order here on this thread). Everyone has reported good things from dealing with him. (Can't remember, he might be out of 14500 protected right now.)

I've never heard of 14500 disposables. You might want to look at LifePO4 (3.2v) cells for a "safer" lithium battery (only for lights which can "boost" voltage to necessary level such as the pa10). Example cells, example charger (note - I have no experience with either). Here's a link to protected Sanyo Li-Ion 14500's at I/O - very good cells. I've had very good dealings with Int'l Outdoor.

-Garry

13

What about doing a Solarforce host with a 4.2v to 6v (or 4.2v to 8.4v+) drop-in which could run CR123's or an 18650? If you're considering the 14500, you're already considering entering into Li-Ion territory where you need to be very cautious about cells (not over-discharging or over-charging, not shorting, etc. . .). I'm not sure if an 18650 gives you longer runtime than the 2 CR123's or not. Someone else can chime in with appropriate drop-in recommendations (Solarforce's drop-ins tend not to be the greatest and may be somewhat expensive). The Solarforce body's are highly regarded around here.

The Solarforce body would allow you to change out drop-ins and try different LED's, tints, etc. . .

-Garry

14

Ok this is where you have to be careful with JetBeam as they aren’t fully honest.

I’m not sure of you knowledge of batteries, so forgive if I say stuff you already know:

Alkaline - Common non rechargeable batteries are alkaline such as AAA, AA, C and D cell. These are cheap, plentiful and prone to leaking. They also don’t sustain a stable voltage and the voltage can sag a lot under load. Ideally you don’t want to use these at all in flashlights. All of these are 1.5v

NiMH - is a rechargeable chemistry often found in AAA and AA offerings. This has a much more stable voltage and is generally very good. However each battery is only 1.2v so most ‘high’ powered flashlights won’t use these as they don’t offer enough voltage.

Lithium - These are non rechargeable and are used in many things like Cameras. The reason is they don’t leak and have very stable voltage levels. They are 3.0v and usually in CR123A size and CR2. Very common in high output flashlights either 1 or 2 batteries.

Lithium-ion - These are a rechargeable battery that can be had in various form factor sizes and there are also variations on their exact chemistry. They are potentially more volatile (like petrol/gasoline sort of risk). So some people steer clear. You’ll also need a specific charger for these. The big difference is they are 4.2v so have the highest voltage of all of the above options. Common sizes are 14500 (AA size), RCR (also called 16340 and are CR123A sized), 18650 (the size of 2xCR123a’s but a little fatter).

I say all of this, because with something like the JetBeam PC10 even though JetBeam claim 550 lumens that’s only with a 4.2v li-ion battery and not the regular 3.0v CR123A (think it’s around 320 lumens on these).

So the question is, do you want to venture into li-ion batteries or do you want to stick with primary non rechargeable ones?

15

I agree that people say this, however I can easily spot the difference between High and Med modes on my lights and they frequently have a much smaller lumen difference between them.

16

A little more info for you. If you are looking at premium lights you might want to consider the Sunwayman V11A or V11R (A uses AA/14500 and the R CR123a/RCR). Both of these will retain all of their modes on li-ion.

Regardless of exact lights, to get the “high” output you are after you will NEED a li-ion or 2xCR123a powered flashlight, no other powersource will be able to support the kind of outputs you are after (a few exceptions maybe…)

I also think you should consider the use of the light, such as does it need to fit in your pocket and what sort of places will you be using the light? Small lights are great, but sometimes you need just a little bigger to make it perform differently.

I know it’s more info to take on, but beam profile is quite important to consider and any high output XM-L in a small form factor simply won’t throw. This means in doors it’ll light up a room with nice even light, but get outside and while it’ll illuminate a wide area it’ll feel like the light hits a wall and doesn’t project as far as you’d want.

A nice example of this is if you compare the same light with different emitters:

EagleTac offer the D25C Clicky with an XP-G2 and an XM-L U2 emitter. The light is a 1xCR123a which has partial support for RCR’s (I think it loses it’s modes so only has high/moonlight rather than all the modes it should have).

In the pics below you can see how much bigger the XM-L emitter is compared to the XM-G2. But here’s the interesting info:
Emitter Lumens Beam Distance
XM-L U2 770 125
XP-G2 530 144

Despite the XP-G2 making 240 lumens less it still has around 20% more beam distance. Which outside at range will make a big difference. So it’s something worth considering.

XP-G2:

XM-L U2:

The D25C:

17

What about a Thrunite TN10 currently on promotion for $49.99? Should be a high quality light, seems to come with a free Ti (single AAA keychain light) and runs on 2 CR123A's.

-Garry