Nitecore Intellicharger i4 charges to 4.22V

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rivet62
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Nitecore Intellicharger i4 charges to 4.22V

I’ve had this charger for about a month. It has a molded-in serial number that matches the one on the box.

Should I be concerned? Does anyone know if there is an internal adjustment for the termination voltage?

texaspyro
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How do you KNOW it charges to 4.22V? Are you using a CALIBRATED meter with over 4.5 digits of display? Most cheap DMMs are doing good to get within 2-3% of reality.

scaru
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texaspyro wrote:
How do you KNOW it charges to 4.22V? Are you using a CALIBRATED meter with over 4.5 digits of display? Most cheap DMMs are doing good to get within 2-3% of reality.

And technically speaking 4.22 volts is a perfectly fine termination level. Wink

rivet62
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OK, you got me. Wink It’s a Fluke 8050A 4.5 digit bench DMM, but Lord knows when it was last calibrated. On the other hand, it agrees within .01V of two lesser DMMs, and my other two chargers measure 4.19-4.20V.

I’ve been meaning to buy one of those 5.000V precision voltage sources, but haven’t gotten around to it.

texaspyro
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rivet62 wrote:
I’ve been meaning to buy one of those 5.000V precision voltage sources, but haven’t gotten around to it.

The ones from voltagestandard.com are rather nice for the money. You should consider getting one with a voltage that won’t shift the meter up a range (like a 3V one to test a meter with a 4V range). He does sell a ref that puts out 5 different voltages.

rivet62
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scaru wrote:

And technically speaking 4.22 volts is a perfectly fine termination level. Wink

Thanks, scaru, that’s what I was hoping to find out.

rivet62
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texaspyro wrote:
The ones from voltagestandard.com are rather nice for the money. You should consider getting one with a voltage that won’t shift the meter up a range (like a 3V one to test a meter with a 4V range). He does sell a ref that puts out 5 different voltages.

That was the place I was thinking of. It looks like the product line has expanded from when I last looked. Thanks for the link.

PilotPTK
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I’ll second voltagereference.com – for the money, they’re impossible to beat.

PPtk

I am currently extremely busy with work. Please do not expect a response from me quickly. I will be dropping in as time permits, but the amount of time I can dedicate to responding to topics and PMs is very limited.

iron potato
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My i4 terminate charge voltage, with a quick measure with Fluke 115, 4.18-4.20v depending on old or new cell, wheres the i2 I get 4.21v

I don’t think its overcharging as scaru pointed out Silly

southland
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I have 2 Fluke meters exactly alike, same model and they don’t read exactly the same. I wouldn’t worry about it and .2 is nothing to worry about in the first place.

radiancez567
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Is this “DMMCheck”: http://shop.voltagestandard.com/product.sc;jsessionid=D054C40529675D03D2... a good reference?

Or DMMCheck Plus is better?

texaspyro
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PilotPTK wrote:
I’ll second voltagereference.com – for the money, they’re impossible to beat.

Plus he has unbeliveably good customer service and will recalibrate the devices for about the cost of a cup of coffee.

HKJ
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radiancez567 wrote:
Is this "DMMCheck": http://shop.voltagestandard.com/product.sc;jsessionid=D054C40529675D03D2... a good reference? Or DMMCheck Plus is better?

The plus can calibrate more ranges and the resistors for ohm calibration is slightly better.

The PentaRef is also very useful for DMM voltage calibration, because you can order one with a 4.2 volt value (Then you now your DMM is correct for LiIon), or for more general purpose, select as needed from: 1.9 (2000 count DMM), 2.9 (3000 count DMM), 3.9 (4000 count DMM), 4.9 (5000 count DMM), 5.9 (6000 count DMM).

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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Checking my batteries after they are on the i4, I'm also usually seeing 4.21-4.22 not 4.2 exactly.  I don't think it's really a big enough of an issue, since it does stop charging at that point.

totilde
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mine stops at 4.217. my fluke is calibrated

Mooooooo

Dobanodnao
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totilde wrote:
mine stops at 4.217. my fluke is calibrated

What batteries are you guys using to get these results? If they are newer higher cap batteries it could (Accurately) detect that it could push more voltage into them and do such. I had my i4 give out at 4.17 on my older sanyo 2200’s batteries and about 4.19 on my newer 2600’s.

Then again my meter is junk, but it still is reasonably consistent. I still trust my accucel 6 more than the i4, which on the same cells and meter stops at 4.15v and 4.17v respectively.

totilde
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Dobanodnao wrote:
totilde wrote:
mine stops at 4.217. my fluke is calibrated
What batteries are you guys using to get these results? If they are newer higher cap batteries it could (Accurately) detect that it could push more voltage into them and do such. I had my i4 give out at 4.17 on my older sanyo 2200's batteries and about 4.19 on my newer 2600's. Then again my meter is junk, but it still is reasonably consistent. I still trust my accucel 6 more than the i4, which on the same cells and meter stops at 4.15v and 4.17v respectively.

I used 4 trustfire lightning from fasttech

they are pretty new,  three charging cycles or so.

Mooooooo

Essexman
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totilde wrote:
mine stops at 4.217. my fluke is calibrated

Calibrated by who, what are their qualifications, and in what Amb conditions and can the calibration be traced back to national physics lab?

Smile Can you tell I like an audit.
PilotPTK
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Dobanodnao wrote:
totilde wrote:
mine stops at 4.217. my fluke is calibrated

What batteries are you guys using to get these results? If they are newer higher cap batteries it could (Accurately) detect that it could push more voltage into them and do such. I had my i4 give out at 4.17 on my older sanyo 2200’s batteries and about 4.19 on my newer 2600’s.

Then again my meter is junk, but it still is reasonably consistent. I still trust my accucel 6 more than the i4, which on the same cells and meter stops at 4.15v and 4.17v respectively.

No. The differences in termination voltage are either
A) Random variation. The Analog Voltage measurement circuitry has precision error from one cycle to another, especially if the room temperature changes.
or
B) Caused by the time between actual charge termination and your measurement. Once the charge terminates, there will be a little fall-back in voltage. If you wait longer after termination, the fall back will be more.
or
C) Your meter has precision error from one measurement to another
or
D) The Charger follow correct CC/CV Charging protocol, and every battery will take current a little differently once near the end of the CV portion of the charge
or
E) a combination of the above.

They are not, however, due to the charger “Sensing” the higher voltage tolerance of the cell and charging it higher.

PPtk

edit: To add Option D – Brain malfunction and I forgot to type that one out..

I am currently extremely busy with work. Please do not expect a response from me quickly. I will be dropping in as time permits, but the amount of time I can dedicate to responding to topics and PMs is very limited.

georgek
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my nitecore i2 charges the sanyo 2800 up tu 4,24v when measured right after charging and it drops to 4,23v an hour after…
the panasonic 2900 are terminated at 4,22v…

totilde
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Essexman wrote:
totilde wrote:
mine stops at 4.217. my fluke is calibrated

Calibrated by who, what are their qualifications, and in what Amb conditions and can the calibration be traced back to national physics lab?

Smile Can you tell I like an audit.

Despite of your suspicion, it is calibrated monthly every second month by a laboratory only dedicated to do such things. I can’t tell you the name,I don’t know it because the fluke is not exactly mine, it’s part of the tool set my company provides me to do my job. But I borrow it when I need to measure some important thing like this
Cat tell you much about the calibration process, but trust me, in my company they are really obsessed with precision-calibrations-torque settings-deviations, so I think the fluke is properly calibrated.
Edit: for future reference, all my other tools like caliper, feeling gauges or torque wrenches are also calibrated. The lab has ISO certification, is all I know

Mooooooo

rdrfronty
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According to my craftsman DMM, my i4 charges my 3400mah protected Keeppowers in the the 4.22 – 4.23V range.

SashiX
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Both (i4 & i2) definitely slightly overcharge (4.22-23V)

 

 

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I posted over in gords i4 "poof" thread, but thought it more appropriate here since we're talking about the i4's termination voltage. 

Charged up my two protected KeepPower 18650 3100's (charged in separate channels for the 750mA rate).  Fresh off the charger I'm measuring 4.27v and 4.28v!  I let them sit 20 minutes and still saw 4.27v & 4.28v.  Here it is 4 hours and 25 minutes later and I'm still seeing 4.27v & 4.27v.  I'm using the same meter I always use and no other charger I have charges this high.  My i4 has a molded serial# which matches the box's label.  This is my first use of this charger.

So how high is too high?  And at what voltage should the over-charge protection kick in? 

-Garry

 

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garrybunk wrote:

I posted over in gords i4 "poof" thread, but thought it more appropriate here since we're talking about the i4's termination voltage. 

Charged up my two protected KeepPower 18650 3100's (charged in separate channels for the 750mA rate).  Fresh off the charger I'm measuring 4.27v and 4.28v!  I let them sit 20 minutes and still saw 4.27v & 4.28v.  Here it is 4 hours and 25 minutes later and I'm still seeing 4.27v & 4.27v.  I'm using the same meter I always use and no other charger I have charges this high.  My i4 has a molded serial# which matches the box's label.  This is my first use of this charger.

So how high is too high?  And at what voltage should the over-charge protection kick in?

Try replacing the battery in your meter.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

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HKJ wrote:

Try replacing the battery in your meter.

I don't think it's the meter's battery.  I just tried measuring with a cheap junky Harbor Freight DMM known to be measure a few hundredths of a volt lower compared to my good meter (at least by experience measuring the same li-ion cells after charging) and it measured 4.23v on each one.  I then pulled a brand new Duracell alkaline from a pack and measured it with both meters: good meter - 1.624v, cheap HF - 1.616v.  I don't have another good meter to try and can't pull the battery out of the good meter now (I'm at work). 

-Garry

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SashiX
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garrybunk wrote:

I posted over in gords i4 “poof” thread, but thought it more appropriate here since we’re talking about the i4’s termination voltage. 

Charged up my two protected KeepPower 18650 3100’s (charged in separate channels for the 750mA rate).  Fresh off the charger I’m measuring 4.27v and 4.28v!  I let them sit 20 minutes and still saw 4.27v & 4.28v.  Here it is 4 hours and 25 minutes later and I’m still seeing 4.27v & 4.27v.  I’m using the same meter I always use and no other charger I have charges this high.  My i4 has a molded serial# which matches the box’s label.  This is my first use of this charger.

So how high is too high?  And at what voltage should the over-charge protection kick in? 

-Garry

 


Wow, that’s too much IMHO Flat Stare
Overcharge circuit kicks in before 4.32/33V ± 0.03/05V (i.e. ± 1%) if I remember well.

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I would contact who ever you got it from Garrybunk and let them know what its doing once you verify your meters reading.
That could be dangerous with a older cell with high internal resistance.
The higher terminated voltage is also shortening the life of your cells permanently . It would be better if it terminated early.

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I bought it from WallBuys at 50% off. I'm going to do some more testing tomorrow and it hen perhaps just save it for use with 4.3v cells. 

-Garry

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My i4 seems to charge to about 4.23V / 4.24V, which makes me a little uncomfortable… so I’ve been pulling the batteries before termination. Sometime after the final charge status LED starts blinking, I’ll pull the batteries. I usually catch it somewhere around 4.15V, which I’m much happier with.

It’d be much nicer if I could simply make the charger stop sooner.

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Ok, did my little test this morning using 2 protected Tenergy 2600mAh 18650's.  Popped cell#1 in the i4, and cell#2 in an ML-102 USB charger.  Cell#2 in the ML-102 showed 4.19v on my meter when it finished (well, it bounced between 4.20v and 4.19v).  This is what I am used to using the two ML-102's I have.  The i4 was still going (third LED flashing), so I pulled the cell (cell#1) and checked voltage - 4.22v.  I put it back in and also put cell#2 from the ML-102 in.  Cell#2 only showed 2 of the LED's lit on the i4 charge indicator (even minutes later), so I watched closely and pulled the cell as soon it it showed the third LED, checked voltage - 4.21v.  I left it out.  I did however leave cell#1 in the i4 and monitored it closely.  I eventually pulled it off the charger when it reached 4.25v because the i4 still hadn't stopped the charge cycle and I didn't want to go beyond 4.25v. 

I now have a warning label on the front of my i4 that it terminates at 4.28v and I will only use it with 4.3v cells (gives me a good excuse to get those now!), although I will also monitor those cells and verify it's still stopping at 4.28v.

Oh well.  I'm a bit frustrated, especially since I thought I was buying such a great charger! 

Now to try and discharge these over-charged cells a bit.  If you don't hear back from me again, well it's been nice being a part of BLF!  (JK)

-Garry

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