V10+ 5000mA driver from fasttech not so 5000?

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zeremefico
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V10+ 5000mA driver from fasttech not so 5000?

I decided to make the powerful HD2010 more powerful.
Using a lathe, I opened the diameter for the emitter from 18 to 20+mm. Then I used a 20mm sinkpad with XM-L2, along with the 5A driver from fasttech.

I have a cheap multimeter which gives me correct measurements. I disappointed after it showed 2.6A tailcap with a high drain panasonic cell.

Have anyone else purchased the specific driver, so he can share his measurements?
I would like to see a detailed photo of the 5A edition, fasttech uses the same image for the 3, 4, 5A edition of the driver.

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Edited by: zeremefico on 04/20/2013 - 02:28
garrybunk
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Did we learn that with an XM-L2 you'd need either a boost driver (very few or none available) or a buck driver running 2S cells or more?  Which Panasonic cells are you using?  Do you have any Sanyo cells which provide higher voltage levels throught their discharge cycle?  You may see a little more output.  How about testing with your King Kong 26650 (seen in your photo)?

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leon63
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I have the V10+ 3A driver in my Fenix TK11 with a xm-l2 u2 and it puts out a little less light than my eagletac g25c2.
When I did tests before putting it in it hit about 2.6A, however it fluctuated depending on the resistence from the dmm wires and aligator clips.
What I’ve learnt with high current drivers is that they are very sensitive to resistance in the wires etc.

How about trying to solder everything together with some nice thick wire and see what you get?
I got a 4a and 5a driver coming in soon. I’d be happy so long as they put out 3.5A+ and 4.2A+ respectively.

zeremefico
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I have tried a XML U2 also, with the same result. King Kong shows the same numbers too.
The quality of the driver is very low, I resoldered a couple of silicone wires, between the 2 boards of the driver, because they were ready to get cut.

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Got the same problem with the 3 mode 4A driver, could only get slightly over 3A out of it.
The sinkpad and higher forward voltage on the XM-L2 certainly doesn’t help but it seems to be a pretty high voltage drop in the driver as well :~

leon63
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Makes me wonder where they get all these numbers from. peak current @ 4.35V on a bench psu with the driver submerged in mineral oil?

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I have the 4A version in a light. (the one with ramping. Comes from IOS, not FT). I am getting more like 3A. 2,8 on a slighly used cell (Panasonic or Sanyo)
Today I just got the protected NCR18650PD from IOS. Pretty fresh of the charger I am getting 3,75A on the tail running one XM-L. Not sure how soon it falls down. Based on first impression it seem to be a much better match with the driver circuit than with the “regular” high quality protected cells.

I also have the 5A version too (3 mode from IOS).. Still not finished the light that I am going to put it in. But Ill report back some place on this forum.
Plan to use it with 5 XP-G and one 32600 battery. Should be no issues with high vf on the LEDs or the amount of juice from the battery. So time will tell.

I have seen others report lower values on these drivers too. I suspect that in a bench test with perfectly constant and high input current they may deliver as rated, but in real life they seem to perform lower to considerably lower than expected.
As Garry mentioned. VF to XM-L2, or VF in general when going for 3,5A++ to a single emitter is an issue that is in many cases not driver related. But in the case of these drivers, they seem to under perform in general when it comes to real life use in flashlights.

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zeremefico
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The Panasonic cells I use are CGR18650CH.
I have seen 5A+ in direct drive XML.

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ohaya
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Hi,

Their page says:

Quote:
Designed for Cree XM-L series LED emitters Also works with+* similarly spec’d*+ emitters

So maybe they specifically mean only XM-L and not XM-L2?

You might open a ticket on their site and ask about XM-L2. That “geek” guy seems pretty knowledgeable and responsive.

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I got these drivers in 4A and 5A on order. You "must" use low resistance batteries on a XM-L2 single cell build w straight amp regulated drivers with driving high current (over 3A). I've gotten 4.2A measured on 4.2A Nanjg drivers. Also, you have to use heavy gauge wire (~22) and check your springs. The first 15 mins or so of use on a battery is excellent output and amps. The KK ICR's and MNKE IMR's do pretty well.

RaceR86's results above is a good sign for the 4A driver - 3.75A measured on a fresh Pana PD. These type of drivers never seem to deliver the full amps as spec'ed, same for the drivers from IOS. I'd expect 3.7A from a 4A driver, and 4.5A from a 5A driver, but 2.6A is bad, really bad. Not sure what a high drain Pana battery is exactly, plus you need heavy gauge leads on your DMM - you are getting into ranges where all resistance is the enemy, you need slim to none resistance, everywhere.

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I found the 4a version from ios gives 3.7a on an xm-l and 3.3a on xm-l2 using a king kong (or a Samsung unprotected/sanyo protected), 2.6a to me suggests either the meter leads aren’t so good or…..they sent you the 3a version by mistake (its an easy mistake to make tbf).

zeremefico
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Is the difference between 3, 4 or 5 amps noticeable?
I mean, can we distinguish the version from a picture?

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no, unfortunately not, I think the sense resistors are different but I dont know the differences myself sorry.

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Just to show how sensitive the 4A driver is to give out high output. Some more tail cap readings to XM-L on copper. Stock wires on the driver (26 AWG to LED from driver, same size or slightly smaller between the boards).
Protected Panasonic 18650PD 3,75A (freshly charged, from the charger)
Protected Panasonic 18650PD 3,6A (freshly charged, but with several hours to rest)
Protected Panasonic 18650B 3,4A (freshly charged, a few hours to rest)
Protected Sanyo UR18650F 2,6A (freshly charged, a few hours to rest)

The difference is about as expected considering that the PD generally is better, and that the 18650B has less voltage sag in the beginning compared to the Sanyo battery. Cant comment yet on the PD, but as said, the others batteries will go below 3A fairly soon (Sanyo already are from the start). I have both green (FT) and black (IOS) 18650B, and they were pretty much equal.

I assume mine and Gords driver are the same. Our high measurements are pretty equal. (Same dealer, same specs, too)
Larger batteries with low resistance and minimal voltage sag probably have a decent advantage when they are used for some time. Or batteries in parallel.
Gords, how does your behave with the larger batteries when voltage are lower? More like 50-70%?

Due to the output being so low, and not well regulated, that might be the reason IOS seem to have stopped to sell them? They started to disappear slowly not too long ago, now I cant find them anymore..

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garrybunk wrote:

Did we learn that with an XM-L2 you'd need either a boost driver (very few or none available) or a buck driver running 2S cells or more?  Which Panasonic cells are you using?  Do you have any Sanyo cells which provide higher voltage levels throught their discharge cycle?  You may see a little more output.  How about testing with your King Kong 26650 (seen in your photo)?

-Garry

If you have a boost driver on 1 cell, do you think that cell can really deliver 5A except for a very short time? The driver would have to pull more than 5A to feed the set output voltage and then take some more current for that regulation, you end up pulling more than 5A, cell struggles since it it will rapidly deplete and voltage sag would be great, resistance becomes great since it's such a high current on such small voltage.

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zeremefico

You got a typo there i nthe title, it's not 5000mAh, but 5000mA.

 

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I have the 5A version and the only way I can get 4.7A on an XM-L2 is with a power supply set to 4.2V. I used 20ga emitter wire and braid on the driver and tail spring. I get about 4.2A on a TF flame 26650. Using 20 ga wire between the boards will probably help.
For me, I’m going back to the East-092 DD driver. I get 5.5A from that J)

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Hikelite
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relic38 wrote:
I have the 5A version and the only way I can get 4.7A on an XM-L2 is with a power supply set to 4.2V. I used 20ga emitter wire and braid on the driver and tail spring. I get about 4.2A on a TF flame 26650. Using 20 ga wire between the boards will probably help. For me, I'm going back to the East-092 DD driver. I get 5.5A from that J)

What do you get at a more realistic voltage like 4.00 or 3.80V? On the power supply of course.

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Dunno, but it drops down as soon as I start to drop the voltage.

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nekdo12
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Tom E wrote:
Also, you have to use heavy gauge wire (~22)

Where can I get thick wire? FT has only 30 and 28 AGW

Hikelite
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nekdo12 wrote:
Tom E wrote:
Also, you have to use heavy gauge wire (~22)
Where can I get thick wire? FT has only 30 and 28 AGW

http://intl-outdoor.com/22-awg-highly-flexible-silicone-copper-wire-p-68...

Hikelite
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Tom E wrote:

I got these drivers in 4A and 5A on order. You "must" use low resistance batteries on a XM-L2 single cell build w straight amp regulated drivers with driving high current (over 3A). I've gotten 4.2A measured on 4.2A Nanjg drivers. Also, you have to use heavy gauge wire (~22) and check your springs. The first 15 mins or so of use on a battery is excellent output and amps. The KK ICR's and MNKE IMR's do pretty well.

RaceR86's results above is a good sign for the 4A driver - 3.75A measured on a fresh Pana PD. These type of drivers never seem to deliver the full amps as spec'ed, same for the drivers from IOS. I'd expect 3.7A from a 4A driver, and 4.5A from a 5A driver, but 2.6A is bad, really bad. Not sure what a high drain Pana battery is exactly, plus you need heavy gauge leads on your DMM - you are getting into ranges where all resistance is the enemy, you need slim to none resistance, everywhere.

I did a 14*7135 driver and got 4900mA with the DMM in series with the standard Nanjg leads with a UR18650GM at 4.15V (offload measured). I think that driver is simply bad, too much drop in the circuit.

zeremefico
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Hikelite wrote:

zeremefico

You got a typo there i nthe title, it’s not 5000mAh, but 5000mA.

 


Fixed, thanks.

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Hikelite wrote:

nekdo12 wrote:
Tom E wrote:
Also, you have to use heavy gauge wire (~22)
Where can I get thick wire? FT has only 30 and 28 AGW

http://intl-outdoor.com/22-awg-highly-flexible-silicone-copper-wire-p-68...

Yes - I got this IOS wire on order. Mostly I've been using this, recommended by Old Lumens:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-feet-22-AWG-Silver-Teflon-Wire-Red-19-Strands-/230887453205?

Available in red and black. I've found sources on eBay and Amazon.

Bought this, been using it lately: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008XNMITW/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_ST1_dp_1

Used this on the BTU Shocker: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0077E9KCQ/ref=pe_175190_21431760_M3T1_ST1_dp_1

The silicone has advantages for flexibility, but been finding this stuff harder to solder - dunno if it's this particular wire or what, that's why I got the IOS wire on order. The teflon coated, silver tinned solders up real well, but turns stiff, sometimes good, sometimes a problem.

 

relic38
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I received my I-O 22ga wire the other day (‘red’ and black). Looks fine, nice and flexible. The red is more of a pinkish-orange, but who cares. I already had 20ga, but that is sometimes too thick for certain lights (HD2010 reflector, I’m looking at you).

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I’m also disappointed with this driver – was hoping for a real eye-popper….

I’m getting 2.9a out of this KD 3.04a driver, but with the same kit, am only getting 2.8a out of a supposed 5a driver…

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I picked up one of the V10+ 5A ramping drivers on a whim, it's pretty disappointing. I haven't put it in a light yet (and probably never will), only bench tested it so far. Current was low with only one good cell so I thwacked it with four Samsung INRs in parallel... current went up just a little but still nowhere near the rating. I can't get it to feed more than 3.8A to the LED no matter what I feed it with. And the UI is about the clunkiest thing ever.

Also, it won't fit into a P60 pill unless you solder on an extender ring first, though most uses will be in something beefier than a P60 (but then, it doesn't really need to be 17mm).

Interesting piece on paper, in person not so much.

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Response from fasttech was that for them, the driver works fine.
Offered replacement or refund, chose replacement.
I haven’t finished yet with that wannabe 5A driver.

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I have not found a direct drive driver which gives 5A+ with one cell and xml2 until now…
I ordered a lot of them and a Samsung inr for my tests…too sad.
The FETs they use have to much resistance or the design is crap, I am not sure why these drivers often have so much devices on them. Controller and FET should be all you need, perhaps some resistors for under voltage protection….

So now I am building one by myself.

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This is all very disappointing. You’d think that there would have been extensive testing before bringing these to market. |( Whats the point?

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I just swapped mine out and put the East-092 back in. It increased the output sery slightly. I think I had it close to 5A with the mods. I’ll put it in the other HD2010 and mess with it some more. I don’t like how the ramping mode is all on its own. I want to have the ramp to set one or more traditional modes. Using the ramping to change output levels in real time is pointless and takes too long.

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