Multi Tool Mania ( Leatherman MUT, ST 300, Charge TTI , Wave, Skeletool, Wingman, & Kick )

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Dale
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The things aesthetics are off the chart. The workmanship is excellent. But the ease of access for those wanting a ‘one handed’ tool. Just not there.

luminarium iaculator
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Yes indeed even Ganzo G301 beats Victorinox in easy of use Smile

Dale
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Apparently SAK/ Victorinox have a almost cult like following. When I rated the Spirit X as poor ease of access… Sphincters tightened around the world. Big Smile

luminarium iaculator
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You are correct and they are unreal(or they did not tried others) if claiming different but no matter of poor ease of access for tools it is one hell of a sturdy tool...

If you will want to sell it for decent price PM me.

Racer
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Sweet, thanks for sharing those, Dale! I have several Victorinox on the way myself. So far I’ve found every model I want in black. I ordered the Explorer and instantly regretted not having the pliers, so I’m looking at either a Champ or Mechanic if I can find one in black. Still loving the Tinker.

Still debating a Victorinox SwissTool/Spirit or the Charge TTi. The Spirit looks beautiful but I would almost be afraid to scratch it, where I don’t seem to mind beating up on my Leatherman tools.

Dale
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Can’t do that.. I’ve been lusting over these things for a year. Smile

Racer
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Here’s my collection as of today:
(Finally figuring out the new camera and homemade light box)

My sister makes these great survival kits, and the two odd-balls in the picture were dug out of her kits Smile

luminarium iaculator
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Also don't forget about an excellent Victorinox pocket skinning knife that is used by hunters all around the globe:

It is well worth the money.

 

But it has almost all necessary tools for regular guy for edc(extra strong saw go through roebuck bone without problems), and wine and beer bottle opener...

vēer
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I like to Vic’s with extra large and wide blade, slightly wider blade than in the one you posted, luminarium iaculator.

But I do find them a bit pricey :D!

Dale
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Doing a bit of research.. I’m surprised Vic is still using 420 & 440a steel. At those prices you’d think they would have upgraded to S30V steel

Racer
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I’m surprised to hear that too. My Juice Xe6 has S30V and the steel on the Vics appears to be at least as hard. But I haven’t really put any of my new Vics to a serious test. Whatever it is, it appears hard enough to already be getting some serious use out of my Tinker’s Philips screwdriver. I’ve already used it on screws that would’ve given grief to cheap Chinese screwdrivers made of softer steel.

Is there an easy way to test the steel without risking damage to it?

Dale
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It’s 420 & 440a

Freman
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It’s a proprietary steel somewhere between 420 and 440A.

INOX in this table.

Dale
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Freman wrote:
It’s a proprietary steel somewhere between 420 and 440A.

INOX in this table.

+1

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Racer wrote:
I’m surprised to hear that too. My Juice Xe6 has S30V and the steel on the Vics appears to be at least as hard. But I haven’t really put any of my new Vics to a serious test. Whatever it is, it appears hard enough to already be getting some serious use out of my Tinker’s Philips screwdriver. I’ve already used it on screws that would’ve given grief to cheap Chinese screwdrivers made of softer steel.

Is there an easy way to test the steel without risking damage to it?

Where do you get that info from? I have quite a few Juices and none of them has an S30V blade. Only the Leatherman Charges come with those. You can buy Leatherman S30V blades off of TTC on eBay for Waves/Charges but all the other stock Leathermans come with a 420HC blade as far as I know.

As for Victorinox, they use:

x55CrMo14 for blades
x39Cr13 for parts
x20Cr13 for backsprings

Vic steel is hardened at 1040°C and then quenched at 160°C so the blades get a RC hardness of RC 56. (RC = Rockwell C, unit for hardness)

The saws, scissors and nail files are hardened to RC 53, screwdrivers, can openers and awls to RC 52 and the corkscrews and backsprings to RC 49.

The metal saw is work hardened and hard chromed to achieve a hardness that can cut iron and steel.

MTO, come to the dark side.

luminarium iaculator
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Dale wrote:
Doing a bit of research.. I'm surprised Vic is still using 420 & 440a steel. At those prices you'd think they would have upgraded to S30V steel

I don't know about steel markings but you can skin 3 roebucks without need of sharpening Smile It is high quality steel and I don't think 25-30$ is big money for such high quality tool/knife...

But I do think China spoiled all of you guys... You are to budget orientated when it comes to real stuff like this...

Steel on this little guy is 50 times better than on any china made replica knife(I know I have plenty of them also).

Dale
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luminarium iaculator wrote:

Dale wrote:
Doing a bit of research.. I’m surprised Vic is still using 420 & 440a steel. At those prices you’d think they would have upgraded to S30V steel

I don’t know about steel markings but you can skin 3 roebucks without need of sharpening Smile It is high quality steel and I don’t think 25-30$ is big money for such high quality tool/knife…

But I do think China spoiled all of you guys… You are to budget orientated when it comes to real stuff like this…

Steel on this little guy is 50 times better than on any china made replica knife(I know I have plenty of them also).

Well, that wasn’t at all condescending.. :bigsmile:

Dale
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I wasn’t paralleling it to the bargain stuff from China. I was comparing it to Leatherman. Like my Charge TTI.

Racer
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Looks like I got the Juice mixed up with the Charge TTi. I could swear the Juice at least had an S30V blade but I’m old and my memory is faulty.

One funny thing though, Knife Center lists pretty much every Leatherman under “Knives with S30V blades”, so my confusion is in good company at least Smile

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_store.html?ttl=Knives%20With%20S30V%20Steel%20Blades&brand=218&min_price=0&max_price=500&&s=29

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luminarium iaculator wrote:
But I do think China spoiled all of you guys… You are to budget orientated when it comes to real stuff like this…

Steel on this little guy is 50 times better than on any china made replica knife(I know I have plenty of them also).

That’s a great remark to make on a Budget Light Forum I was going to go on but I thought better of it.

Edit_____________I do like my Budget Chinese made stuff though.

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8steve88 wrote:
luminarium iaculator wrote:
But I do think China spoiled all of you guys... *You are to budget orientated* when it comes to real stuff like this...

 

Steel on this little guy is 50 times better than on any china made replica knife(I know I have plenty of them also).

That's a great remark to make on a *Budget Light Forum* I was going to go on but I thought better of it. Edit_____________I do like my Budget Chinese made stuff though.

We are talking about tools and knifes in this topic? Right? 

And Victorinox is budget pocket knife that you can get for 25$.

China models... You can like it... I like them(they are nicely made with G10 and micarta handle but with low q steel)...

But they are 100 years away from above mentioned Victorinox(or any other VX model) which is also budget knife/tool if you ask me... 25$(or even less in some countries) for knife that can skin, and saw off bones is really on the budget side of story..., and that why I say that sometimes you don't have to be to budget orientated and get real stuff for $ more. Or simply buy them all like I do...

Try to skin something out with china replicas(lets say beautiful ganzo g704 or navy K602) and then you will see the difference.

I would really like to see China replicas with Victorinox like or Swedish steel. I would pay much more(double) if needed for such quality.

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“Budget” is a term I’m not sure I like. Personally, it’s value I look at, and the cost is secondary. It’s not that I want to overspend, it’s just that I am willing to spend whatever necessary to get a good value. I think once you factor in quality of construction and materials, brands like Leatherman and Victorinox are generally a much better value than their Chinese counterparts, at least when it comes to multi-tools.

For EDC I have no problem carrying a Chinese made SRM GB-763 pocket knife. It’s not going to open a box any better than my Golden, Colorado made Spyderco Native. If anything, it’s better for EDC because I would not hesitate to sacrifice it to whatever task it’s being used for. So, for EDC, it’s probably one of the best value items I own, next to the Wingman of course.

Now, if you were to drop me off on a desert island with only one knife, it would probably be a Mora or Becker. The Mora is an exceedingly good value as well. Not the best steel, and it’s not even full tang, but it’s cheap and field proven.

luminarium iaculator
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Racer wrote:
For EDC I have no problem carrying a Chinese made SRM GB-763 pocket knife. It's not going to open a box any better than my Golden, Colorado made Spyderco Native. If anything, it's better for EDC because I would not hesitate to sacrifice it to whatever task it's being used for. So, for EDC, it's probably one of the best value items I own, next to the Wingman of course. Now, if you were to drop me off on a desert island with only one knife, it would probably be a Mora or Becker. The Mora is an exceedingly good value as well. Not the best steel, and it's not even full tang, but it's cheap and field proven.

Yes they are really nice pocket knifes(ganzo,sanrenmu,navy,enlans)... Bad steel=low price

Mora has awesome blade - Swedish steel... Better than Victorinox... Field proven as you told... Hunters love Morakniv for big game skinning it is sharp and holds an edge... Even the cheapest one...

 

I would really like to see China making knifes with high quality steel... I would pay 50$ for my Ganzo G704(fast opening, an excellent locking mechanism, best edc for price) with this Swedish or VX steel...

 

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I’m with you there. It’d be great to see someone like Ganzo or SRM step up. I think I read a statement somewhere from SRM that they could easily use better steel, but they don’t think anyone will pay the money—I sure would.

luminarium iaculator
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Can anyone contact this guys and tell them to make knifes from better steel. I mean interest thread or something like that? They are not aware that people would pay for quality blade...

Dale
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This post isn’t about budget multi-tools from china… Please show me a tool in the SAK line that outshines the Charge TTI… While looking up vendors in china, you may research some in Sweden. Being that Leathermans Charge blows everything out of the water SAK makes, per quality of steel & ease of access. Oh & not to mention warranty return time. Call Richard Dean Anderson & see if he can help with that one. Bwah ha ha :bigsmile:

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Is this SAKish enough to be going on with? Not exactly inexpensive but there again it’s a step up in the steel type and it just might get me into the SAK type knife, I’ve never been keen – the only one I had (a huntsman I think) I gave away.
.

.
Blade:Sandvik 12C27
Blade Length: 85mm/3.35”  
Blade Thickness: 3.05mm/0.12”  
Closed Length: 114mm/4.49”
Weight: 224g/7.9oz
Handle: G10 Handle Scale
Other Tools: 3Cr13MOV (56 HRC)
Gang Liang Design
1. Knife 2. Saw 3. Wood/Metal File
4. Ruler (cm) 5. Screwdriver
6. Cutting Hook 7. Phillips Screwdriver
8. Can/Bottle Opener 9. Glass Breaker
10.Wrench Driver (4/6/8/10mm)
.
Real Steel website.

Something different anyway but ~$60 is more than a most SAKs here in the U.K.
.
I’ve not found a review in English yes but this gives an idea of size etc.-

I like it anyway, even bought a -

To see if I could get away with the blade shape, it works fine, very sharp and very usable.
I’ll admit that the SAK has a cult following, say anything against them on most forums and there’s a lynch mob after you. I never quite got it though.

Dale
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Nor have I…. & I just bought three of them…. But I have yet to get visions of excaliber with angels singing in the background.

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The 9Cr/440C used in Ganzo knives and multi-tools is a better grade of steel than Victorinox use, and their heat treatment is good enough that cutting tests show it to last longer than Cold Steel’s AUS8A (and I love my Cold Steel knives). I just recently bought a Ganzo 711, looking for a small full flat grind knife with a decent blade, and it is certainly impressive (if not as comfortable in hand as my Lone Star Hunter).

Meanwhile, although my Charge TTi is awesome, and of course the S30V blade is better than any steel China produces at the moment, most Leatherman tools come with 420HC blades which are certainly good enough given that a Leatherman isn’t a dedicated knife, but even with a good heat treatment is only on par with the Chinese 8Cr13MoV.

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That Real Steel looks really interesting. I have a SRM with a razel blade like that but haven’t really used it. Either that reviewer has small hands or it’s bigger than it looks in the pictures. Definitely not opposed to paying that much if it’s worth it. Someone should buy one and report back Smile

Right now I think my next multi-tool will be a Charge TTi— still deciding.

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