Taking things to extremes..

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Racer
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Heh, I just said ‘Surefire sucks’ because it felt good to say it. I’m sure they’re an OK brand. They do seem over-priced, though. What matters to me is I can talk about how much I love my Sunwayman lights, and someone else can talk about how they much prefer SureFire, and everyone has an equal voice. Hopefully we can all agree that most products have their share of satisfied owners.

My problem is when I say ‘Surefire seems over-priced’ and people treat me like I don’t understand flashlights just because I’ve made a different choice than they have. That kind of condescension doesn’t seem to exist here. Like what you like— it’s all good Smile

fartybum
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gords1001 wrote:
lada vs range rover is a bad analogy too, I’d trust the lada before I trusted the British Leyland crap.

I’m sure surefire are pretty reliable, its just the dollar/lumen ratio is pretty poor and the bullet proof build is unnecessary for most usage, a classic maglite will, in ordinary everyday use prove just as reliable as a surefire but costs so much less.

I agree 100% so why are you guys so down on them, it’s not the product for you why kick the hell out of it, I’m like that with cars I see super cars a a total waste of time and money, then I not the target market but I don’t go around car forums saying what rubbish they are and saying my hot Vauxhall is just a capable as a Ferrari.

Chloe I’m sorry you misinterpreted my comments as anti Chinese My grandfather was Chinese and my favourite new light is a Solarforce, I was comparing as I said the ebay hot rod torches. I have owned and will continue to buy torches from China.

Just trying to put some balance into the conversation where there isn’t at the moment.

Don’t get down on a product just because it’s not your cup of tea.

Racer
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Everyone knows the best car is Honda. I get in my Honda, and I know it’s going to start, because it’s a Honda Silly

Dale
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@ Farty… For me, It’s the underwhelming lumens per price. I am a big Solarforce fan as well. Not to be argumentative, but I don’t think Surefire can hold a candle ( No pun intended ) to Solarforce or many of the other brands out there.

CheapThrills
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Racer wrote:
Everyone knows the best car is Honda. I get in my Honda, and I know it’s going to start, because it’s a Honda Silly

My Honda also started – to rust Sad
I must admit that I liked some features on it, like engine and suspension…
gords1001
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I think most would be happy to pick a surefire up AT A BUDGET PRICE, surefire is just an unfortunate victim of the bad feeling caused by cpf’s nazi tendencies and sheep like state of many of the people happy to be there, the thing with blf/tfe or tff is that, you are free to post your opinions, within reason, on cpf, your only allowed to post opinions that fall in line with the forums agenda, that’s why the place holds no interest for me, I’m not particularly regulated in real life, I certainly wont be unnecessarily regulated when talking about something as unimportant in the grand scheme of things as a damned torch, lifes too short and I have way larger concerns.

fartybum
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gords1001 wrote:
you are free to post your opinions, within reason, on cpf, your only allowed to post opinions that fall in line with the forums agenda,

https://www.google.com/search?q=surefire+problems&sitesearch=www.candlep...

https://www.google.com/search?q=surefire+problems&sitesearch=www.candlep...

Dale
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Here we go..

gords1001
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ah, the point is, these people are addressing an issue with the high dollar obscure items they have already bought from cpf approved (sponsors) sellers, try going on there and suggesting the answer is a solarforce host, axlm drop in and efest cell and see how far you get…..

Or try pointing out that the p60 design itself is being pushed well beyond its design specs and you would be better looking at a dedicated 18650 p60 sized host designed to mount a 20mm star and use a suitable driver (nanjg and contact board works well, the host in question is on my hip, where it rides daily for ease of use, along with a sanrenmu m1, shock horror, cheap chinese host, cheap chinese driver, cheap chinese knife, cheap chinese holster, is there no end to my blasphemy? )

Then post links for these items, I’d be inclined to measure the posts lifespan in nanoseconds…..

For many many many more examples, including a poorly thought out cpf sponsored troll, check out duro’s “I really hate candle power forums” thread.

Dale
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I enjoy shooting beer out my nose…. Cheeky Sod !!

gords1001
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no worries, you on something interesting or some form of lager? if its lager its better down your nose than down your throat :bigsmile:

Dale
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gords1001 wrote:
no worries, you on something interesting or some form of lager? if its lager its better down your nose than down your throat :bigsmile:

+1 LOL Big Smile

B42
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fartybum wrote:
Which torches are more technically advanced? I see many Chines so called flame thrower lights that aren’t advanced, I don’t see squeezing 12 highpower leds onto an inadequate heat sink is advanced, I think the mre expensive manufacturers have a reputation to protect and must make reliable products to survive, you might buy 10 or more torches a year but you’re not the target market a large proportion of Surefires business is contract sales and the product must be shown to be proven reliable, these customers are repeat buyers.

Look at the money a carpenter will spend on a hammer, my cheap old hammer gets the job done but a real tradesman wouldn’t be seen dead using it. Good tools cost money for a reason.

Charlie Chan or Chinese super torch manufacturer on the other hand can jam a heap of leds into a light and not worry whether it lasts, his development costs are almost zero because his ebay special doesn’t have to last, how many times do we see torches with paper thin heatsinks and not even a smear of heatsink compound.

You really do need to compare like with like.

Cheap torches = fun, but are not in the same league, your all trying to compare a lada with a range rover they’ll both get you there just the lada is going to fail far more frequently. To think otherwise is stupidity.

Well “stupid” eh? Many people dont have the $$ to buy a Range Rover, and Ladas can be repaired for cheap, and depending on the model, you could buy a few for the price of a Range Rover. Plus LEDs are different than vehicles: there is only so much you can “get wrong” in a flashlight, and “repairs” arent that expensive. You talk about cramming 12LEDs with not enough heatsinking…well thats why they are under-driven in the first place. Its actually much better economically and energy cost efficiency to get a 12LED light for $76 very under driven than mod your Sunwayman T60CS to try (and still fail) to get the same lumens for about $300 (and burn your hand). And Sunwayman’s not even the price of Surefire…do they even have anything that could compete?

Lasting is hardest to address, but…if I have to buy 2 more over the years, then….well then I’d still be ahead! Especially taking into account the fact it’d probably take you TEN Surefires taped together to compare (and cost even more than Sunwayman). Smile

So…stupid is most definitely not the position of buying the 12LED light… Wink

fartybum
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I’m done guys just trying to present a different viewpoint, unfortunately you are as bad as the people you complain about, there is very little tolerance for ideas that don’t match the herd mentality.

Dale
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fartybum wrote:
I’m done guys just trying to present a different viewpoint, unfortunately you are as bad as the people you complain about, there is very little tolerance for ideas that don’t match the herd mentality.

The ‘herd’ mentality as you so eloquently phrased it. Well, it just won’t wash here… This venue is open to all lights. The fact that we won’t prescribe to archaic technology just to fit in tells you something. Welcome to the island of misfit toys.

Dale
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It’s all on you man!!! Don’t you feel ashamed!!!! LMAO

gords1001
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hangs head in shame. …….

not really, I just like to address the alternative view point, mainly because sometimes they have a good point and make me reevaluate my thinking, fartybum, seriously, I’m not getting at you, but if you post a view point in order to challenge, should that view point be above challenge itself?

RedForest UK
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Surefires cost more because:

1. They have very robust build quality
2. They have a lifetime warranty
3. They are made in the USA
4. They have high profit margins (because they know they will still sell them, that’s capitalism)

1 and 2 are good reasons. 3 may be for those in the US, but I’m not bothered apart from English speaking CS. 4 is why I buy other brands.

Dale
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Their profit margins stem from the military contracts they landed years ago. Those idiots ( US Government ) paid $700 for a toilet seat. Our tax dollars at work.

fartybum
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No matter how valid you think your arguments are, does it justify ridiculing you fellow enthusiast?

T.H.Cone
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fartybum wrote:
No matter how valid you think your arguments are, does it justify ridiculing you fellow enthusiast?

That question is a two way street you know.

fidem, prae caeteris omnibus praeter honestatem

 

 

Don't be confused, my Username has been changed from "Cone" to "T.H.Cone".  I'm still the same clown.

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there are a couple surefires that i think look good... but then i look at my farka f8... ever seen a dropin look like it was on air shocks when you put it in the head? dont think surefires machining could have much tighter tolerance. and this lil farka is a damn good looking light i think...

 

then there is the solarforce m6... like the looks of it, like the mods for it... but $300 for an outdated incan, before the ridiculously expensive parts to make it good... nah, think i will go just north of $200 for a FF4 and call it a day

 

i am all for supporting US business. but come on... you got to work with us a little

i am all for lifetime guarantee, but most likely i will void said guarantee within a year

Racer
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Let’s assume that SF has the best quality and nobody was disputing that. I think most of us tend to focus on value, which is a combination of quality and price. So, quality is important, but without a good price, the value goes down. That’s why I haven’t bought one. It looks like a good quality product, but I think other brands are a much better value. But that’s just me. I’d personally rather have 4 Fenix lights for example than one SF light. But different people have different priorities, and I respect that.

flashlight man
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The older Surefires are way out dated. I think everyone can agree on that. Take a look at some of the newer models. The E2DL Ultra for example is a pretty awesome light, it is hitting close to 20k with awesome side spill with a nice big hotspot. It is just a bit longer than a P60 host, but a lot thinner. The Fury can be had for a lot less and is comparable to the $100 lights that Fenix, Nitcore, etc etc put out. Plus a way better warranty. Everyone likes lights for different reasons and that is cool. Really no need to argue about it. I myself would rather pay a little more and get a better quality light. It does not matter if it is Fenix, EagleTac, Surefire or what ever else is out at the time. I stay away from the supper cheap stuff, because it tends to have issues. Bottom line is different things work for different people.

borked
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Horses for courses.
We live in a greyscale, not this black/white only perspective some are sprouting as the only choice.

fartybum
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Really pleased to see some well thought out answers Smile Kinda helps balance the discussion, I wasn’t arguing for Surefire, I just think people should be able to buy and support any brand without persecution or need to justify that purchase, as borked said horses for courses.

Pulsar
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hey, if i had the cash i would have a titanium sunwayman with enough trits in it to light my night stand... a lot here would think i was crazy, but it is what i want

 

i just dont see the value in surefire.

 

yes, i would love to have an m6, and maybe a couple others... but there is just no value for money involved in them. they are just another anodized aluminum host... 

ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Surefire-E2D-LED-Defender-/171101795687?pt=US_Flashlights&hash=item27d6763567#ht_292wt_919

I see these on ebay and think to myself if only these guys knew what kind of real flashlight they could by for that money. I would by a K40 or TN31 before I thought even once for paying $50 for that light.

Racer
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Pulsar wrote:
they are just another anodized aluminum host…

I was thinking that yesterday. That most of the SF argument can be distilled down to “My Aluminum tube is better than your Aluminum tube!”

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$ureFire torches are nice collectibles. I do have a few of those; all of them bought at a ridiculously low price off eBay.

“Look, this is the original one, and this… is the Chinese version of it. And, look, how the Chinese have improved the original design so much, at a much lower price!”

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