Remote switch (RF) for weapon light

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pinkpanda3310
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Remote switch (RF) for weapon light

A mate has offered for me to mod his pred9x weapon light for more throw.

I’ll completely remove the electronics from the light so what ever I do is reversible. The light comes with a remote (radio frequency) switch which he likes but is willing to forego this feature in favour of more throw.

I would really like to impress him by maintaining this feature. I don’t think I can find the frequency of the transmitter so I would need a complete new module (transmitter and receiver). It will activate a mom switch on the driver. Something that could be setup in parallel with a mom switch would be ideal. I plan to use the following driver, set to about 4 amps.
http://www.lck-led.com/38mm-side-switch-5000ma-driver-sst50-p-1102.html?...

I’ve had a look around but most of what I have found seemed ‘over qualified’ for the task (and ,not to mention, above my ability to finish the electrical circuit). All I need is a simple ‘open/close’ signal and the receiver to take 2s voltage. Is this do-able? I’m sure someone with knowledge of this sorta stuff could work it out but I’m a bit of a dummy with electronics so I’m hoping there is a simple solution Big Smile

Any suggestions or help appreciated Beer

  

fellfromtree
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I’m sure you could find the on/off circuit with a little prodding on the circuit board that handles the switching. Add a relay if your worried about the amount of power going through it.

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Most RF devices you’re gonna be able to buy are component level and would need a uC with logic control to work, it’s very unlikely you’ll be able to find a stand-alone receiver that provides a simple on/off output the driver needs without a dedicated control circuit and it’ll be hard to find a circuit that can fit in that light.

Your best bet would be to try to mod the factory driver for more current. You could also let us have a look at the factory driver, maybe if you get lucky the RF MCU is a different component from the LED driver’s MCU and you could piggyback / airwire a 13A onto the driver replacing the LED driver portion of the board’s MCU to have control of the modes.

If his end goal is more throw why not leave the driver stock and/or resistor mod it and just swap in a dedomed XP-G2 / XM-L2? That would double or more the throw and you wouldn’t have to worry about the driver.

 RIP  SPC Joey Riley, KIA 11/24/14. Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.

pinkpanda3310
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I do plan to dedome the xp-g2 and mount it on a sinkpad. I figured the extra current would make it a ‘killa light’ >) lol

I’m about to sleep. I’ll post up some pics of the stock driver tomorrow.

  

pinkpanda3310
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So here are some pics of the stock driver. I don’t know what I’m looking at but maybe it means something to you guys. Unfortunately there are components hidden between the two boards. I can separate them but I’ll wait for a response before I do that.

  

comfychair
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LD-36 requires a momentary non-latching switch, it can be packaged very very small with very small wires (a 2-conductor single cable would be least troublesome, probably), so the switch can still be remote mounted, it just won't be wireless. It carries no current like a clicky switch, it only grounds a pin on the controller to tell it to change modes/on/off.

fellfromtree
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That curly etch is the antennae in the first shot. Too much hidden under the top one. I would just leave it in, do the emitter swap like suggested as you don’t know how to use an ohmeter (I assume). If you know what a resistor looks like, you can color in one resistor at a time with a pencil and switch the light on and off, find out which resistor increases power to the light. Use alchohol and a qtip to take it off. Looks like the good stuff you need to get at is hiding under that board.

That’s me though, I don’t know anything about custom drivers like these other guys. Just used to overclock video cards by replacing resistors, or putting in a variable resistor so you could adjust the resistance on the fly. The thing with wires is in hunting that might not be a good idea. Your wet and I can see it coming off or getting in the way. Your friend yelling ^&%$ing pink panda I’m going to kick his ass!

comfychair
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What is the power source (2x CR123?), what is the stock LED?

Does the resistor shown here go to anything that looks related to the LED wires?

http://75.65.123.78/Img_1215.jpg

pinkpanda3310
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dookiecheap wrote:
The thing with wires is in hunting that might not be a good idea. Your wet and I can see it coming off or getting in the way. Your friend yelling ^&%$ing pink panda I’m going to kick his ass!

Hehe, I could see that happening too. Also he doesn’t mount anything unnecassary on the gun e.g. he straps the remote button to his finger.

Stock batteries is 2× 18650 and led is XP-G2. That big resistor is just near the pins to the led (just to the left outside the red circle). Does that mean it’s a sense resistor? I’ve never tried using a pencil over the resistors but sounds simple, I’ll try it tonight.

  

wight
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Graphite (penciling) is used on the video cards to tweak pretty high value resistors IIRC. I don’t see it working well for sense resistors (extremely low value resistors).

The good news here is that the RF board is standalone, other than the antenna. The RF board is already setup for momentary output (it’s set by the jumper on top). Take a look at the info here.

All you need to do is make yourself a little harness and probably power it off of whatever regulated voltage the MCU on your LCK-LED driver uses. As you can see, the antenna is simple, simple, simple. You could easily make one. Just measure the total length of the coiled trace on the larger PCB and cut a wire to the same length. Done!

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

Helios-
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That pcb antenna does not seem to be connected. Its just using the green wire as a whip antenna.

pinkpanda3310 wrote:

Only the first 3 pins connected, the 4th ANT is not.


Counterfeit 18650s, 2,<a href=“http://

wight
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Good call.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

texaspyro
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wight wrote:
the antenna is simple, simple, simple. You could easily make one. Just measure the total length of the coiled trace on the larger PCB and cut a wire to the same length. Done!

NO! It may look simple, but it is not. The design of these things involves a lot of obscure physics and black magic. Things like dielectric constants, impedance matching, skin effects, S-parameters, etc. That simple squiggly wire is anything but… at microwave frequencies nothing is simple or straightforward.

wight
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texaspyro wrote:
wight wrote:
the antenna is simple, simple, simple. You could easily make one. Just measure the total length of the coiled trace on the larger PCB and cut a wire to the same length. Done!

NO! It may look simple, but it is not. The design of these things involves a lot of obscure physics and black magic. Things like dielectric constants, impedance matching, skin effects, S-parameters, etc. That simple squiggly wire is anything but… at microwave frequencies nothing is simple or straightforward.

Hate to argue :_(, but you frequently do this TP. AFAIK it is that simple when you’re dealing with these commodity RF boards at low range. (also in lots of other situations!) Hence the simple, lame whip antenna that Helios pointed out after I posted about making the same thing. No need, it’s already been done because it is that simple.

Just because all those real & complicated physics problems are in play doesn’t mean the solution can’t be simple.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

WarHawk-AVG
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not quite microwave frequency, definitely UHF for sure

300MHZ~370MHZ 3~5.5VDC,370MHZ~440MHZ 3.3~5.5VDC

pinkpanda3310
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Pencilling the resistor is out then.

That’s great info wight! I would buy one but it’s a 300 minimum order :Sp

Could I use something like this in conjunction with the stock remote switch?

  

fellfromtree
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Yeah texas, wight is right in this case. You don’t have to worry about impedance because it’s a one way deal, transmitter to receiver. The receiver isn’t transmitting anything so keeping a low swr doesn’t matter in this case. Smile

http://www.daylightrf.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=1364

Cool that would be a simple fix, attach that to the driver, you could even add modes like that.. He could blind Fleece Johnson with the strobe and finish him off with turbo. Wight knows what he’s doing- take my coat and exits the building lol

Having modes put in depending on how long he holds it could work. He might not shoot you for screwing up his light, but it would probably have to default back to his favorite after he turned it off imo.

wight
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pinkpanda3310 wrote:
Pencilling the resistor is out then.

That’s great info wight! I would buy one but it’s a 300 minimum order :Sp

Could I use something like this in conjunction with the stock remote switch?

You could contact them for a sample. Many manufacturers will sample at reasonable prices. I’d just use the existing one though, I do not think there is much risk to it. (Less risk than resistor-modding the driver for example.)

I’m not really sure, but I doubt that you could use the KS-15RD with the existing remote switch. Why don’t you see if you can get us pics / info about the other side of the receiver PCB? It may be that they are simply rebranding/cloning something else which is more available. I suspect that even more because they fail to show the other side on their website…

EDIT: if you don’t like any of that… how large is that remote switch housing? You may be able to replace the guts like you are doing with the weaponlight. In that case you could just drop in a ~$10USD TX/RX pair…

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

wight
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dookiecheap wrote:
Cool that would be a simple fix, attach that to the driver, you could even add modes like that.. He could blind Fleece Johnson with the strobe and finish him off with turbo. Wight knows what he’s doing- take my coat and exits the building lol

Having modes put in depending on how long he holds it could work. He might not shoot you for screwing up his light, but it would probably have to default back to his favorite after he turned it off imo.

Hmm, I like this train of thought. I think STAR could be easily modified to be short press for on/off for a “main” mode and long press will always take you to a “special” mode from any state (on or off). That seems like a predictable and easy to learn system for 2 modes, although I’m not sure it’s useful here. This seems to be a hunting weapon light, not tactical. Full blast may be the only mode needed.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

texaspyro
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WarHawk-AVG wrote:
not quite microwave frequency, definitely UHF for sure 300MHZ~370MHZ 3~5.5VDC,370MHZ~440MHZ 3.3~5.5VDC

No, that looks like a 2.4 GHz RF module that uses something like the Nordic transceiver chips. Look at how the Flex Asgard bluetooth flashlight failed They tried to cobble a simple antenna onto it (bypassing the PC board antenna) and could not get signals in/out of the flashlight… also had lots of problems with their interface ap

Due to the short range of the link, you might be able to get by with a simple wire. But you are also trying to get the signal into a metal light housing…

comfychair
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My Asgard driver retrofit into a D cell Mag works fine, AR lens but plastic reflector (stock Mag LED part). It's reliable up to about 10 feet, as if you'd ever need to use it like that.

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texaspyro wrote:
WarHawk wrote:
not quite microwave frequency, definitely UHF for sure 300MHZ~370MHZ 3~5.5VDC,370MHZ~440MHZ 3.3~5.5VDC
No, that looks like a 2.4 GHz RF module that uses something like the Nordic transceiver chips.

There is no picture showing the length of its wire whip antenna or its chip. How does it look like 2.4GHz ?

Plus, http://www.daylightrf.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=1364

Quote:

2. Technical Specifications:
Operating voltage:
300MHZ370MHZ 35.5VDC,370MHZ440MHZ 3.35.5VDC
Operating current:
≤6.8mA (5.0VDC)
Operating principle:
super heterodyne
Modulate mode:
OOK/ASK
Frequency range:
315/433.92MHz/customized
Bandwidth:
1MHz (315MHz, test when the sensitivity decline to 3dBm)
Sensitivity:
better than -110dBm (50Ω)
 Rate:
<10Kbps (at 315MHz at -95dBm)
Decoding format:
MCU
Output signal:
TTL electric level, 4 route control output;
Control mode
Toggle(connect L4 & T4)
Momentary(connect M4 & L4)
Interlock(no any connection)
Learn quantity:
20 remotes
Antenna length:
24cm (315MHz), 18cm (433.92MHz)

 


Counterfeit 18650s, 2,<a href=“http://

fellfromtree
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^^ Yeah it should be fine texas. I used to build yagis. Think of it like bunny ears on a tv set. You can adjust them in and out, doesn’t have to perfectly match. A reciever at those ranges will work. No use in adjusting for impedance because it doesn’t matter. On the transmitter yeah, I’d agree you want a swr as close to 1 as possible (for little loss in tx power)

Or if it was a 2 way street where the button needed confirmation from the receiver. Or like wifi both ways. Then you’d have to try and equal the button end. These are omnidirectional too.

What’s cool about having a optimized directional antennae is you can communicate with a little device say running bluetooth meant for little range, and it looks to the little device you are standing right next to it, when in reality you could be 3 blocks away xd Only downside is directional is hard to optimize in the 2.4 and 5 ghz range. Most of the antennaes I found from China are so far out of spec, it’s almost laughable.

edit for comments below

Aye just read your stuff, It’s only black magic because you haven’t built antennas. The elements get smaller as you go up in the band, but that doesn’t mean it’s much different. I found in antenna building, just bending the wave around the dipole could decrease latency, but that was on the top levels of optimizing output, it wasn’t black magic. Far as this application goes, bet you could probably have no antennae and it would work!

texaspyro
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When you see antennas etched into a circuit board, they are almost always for microwave radios. They tend to not be very effective at lower freqs (and not all that good at microwaves). Those 300-400 Mhz radios really like to see 18” or so antennas.

texaspyro
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Antenna SWR and matching is just as important for the receiver as the transmitter… except with a bad SWR in the receiver antenna, you don’t risk exploding the receiver due to all that power being reflected back into the device… you just lose a lot of signal strength.

BTW, when I went to college I was a co-op engineer in the Microwave Product Development group of Collins Radio… and microwaves is still jiu-jiu and black magic to me.

tterev3
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If you want to replace everything with your own electronics, these radio modules are simple on/off signal:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/433Mhz-RF-transmitter-and-receiver-link-kit-for-...ARM-MCU-WL-/140719918135?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c38f8c37

They don’t include any data handling, just modulation and demodulation. On the transmitter you put the pin high/low and an output pin on the receiver goes high/low

wight
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I think the limiting factor here may be the size of the TX housing. That’s why I asked about it earlier – from the picture I cannot establish a scale.

Still fine, still on a break. One day I’ll catch up with you folks! previous wight catchup Wink
list of my drivers & variants (A17DD, FET+1 stuff, WIP stuff, etc)

tterev3
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wight wrote:
I think the limiting factor here may be the size of the TX housing. That’s why I asked about it earlier – from the picture I cannot establish a scale.

I have a few of them, the transmitter is tiny. About the size of a dime

EDIT: 19×19mm to be exact

texaspyro
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tterev3 wrote:
, these radio modules are simple on/off signal

Unfortunately they are not simple ON-OFF devices. They can only send/receive a modulated signal and the waveform must be balanced (sum of signal high times must equal low times). The receiver has a PLL/AGC circuit that goes gaga if you try and send DC signals.

I use them to control the optical beacon in my rocket launch controllers and use an ATTINY85 to do the modulation/demodulation. I use something like a 500 Hz waveform for a “1” and a 1 kHz waveform for a “0”.

pinkpanda3310
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I have no idea why but I can’t post photo’s from google anymore. Given me the 5hits. I separated the boards and took a pic with my mobile but I can’t seem to show you. Even pics I have posted already will not paste again???

  

pinkpanda3310
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I think I worked out how to at least link you guy’s to the pictures -

https://plus.google.com/photos/102291091627371918907/albums/604909560956...

  

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