I've been a flashaholic for years and I still don't get the obsession with ultra low modes.

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hank
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bibihang wrote:

It is human nature …
If you leave the crowd to participate in singing competitions, pursue your own way in entrepreneurship or any dream which is unique then it is not “normal” in the eyes of the public, and people don’t feel comfortable …

Wait, is that why Elvis disappeared???

OMG, I think it might explain Michael Jackson too!

Dangit, why did I say “OMG”? Goddesses don’t say OMG, it’s like saying “oh my self!” I’m so confused… must be spending too much time around humans.

I’m’n’a stop thinking about this and go back to playing with photons.

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sedstar wrote:

i have little use for strobe, but, i know what its for… you strobe a bad guys eyes and immediately MOVE after cliking off the light… to the enemy, its like you made a “puff!” of smoke and sort of “vanished”.

also, i wouldnt mind 8 or 10 modes… all equidistant spaced… HIGH on down to almost nothing would be perfect for in the field. i could stretch my battery life for longer operating time scanning for ‘yotes.

SOS is about useless though… we once put a little light with SOS mode on, on a hill, and no one came to see what the “distress call” was for, we thought it was funny… if people are ALREADY lookign for you? they will approach a lighter out of fluid, seeing the sparks with no flame, lmFao… but if no one is already LOOKING for you? you can SOS mode all night without anyone coming to see whats going on.

+1

I also think we are talking about the standard clickly switch. On my Nitecore P36 (yes I think it is a great light) it has a wheel with 10 setting 2-2000 lumen and with a single movment of my thumb I can go through all 10 settings. I am amazed and the difference between first setting 2, and the second setting of 20 lumens, who would hve though that 18 lumens is so much. As the light it so easy to control I have found that “just right” is really job specfic. I dont think it is perfect because its stobe is so fast it is really just a 50% pwm but as it is hard to hit on accident it’s a non issue.

(“It’s good that most people can’t remember their previous lives. Otherwise
things would be a lot more complicated than they already are.”
Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo)

jacktheclipper
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Modern flashlights have more than one mode

Different levels to light one's abode

Now it's sure you can plead

For each one there's a need

Turned mine on and was glad that it glowed

 

Now most people live by their own code

And each one of us keeps his own road

I just want on and off

Others' views I won't scoff

My opinions on you I won't goad

 

 

 

 

  

What I do

 

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BLightSam wrote:
Observations:

1. BLF is flooded with people who gets up in the middle of the night. On the other hand, budget/economy lodging in travel where multiple beds in one room with strangers do not mention moon light flashlight.

2. Documentary on multiple day hiking don’t ever show people reading at night. They show, though, people sitting around a camp fire singing or conversing.

No one, after lighting a lamp, puts it away in a cellar nor under a basket, but on the lampstand, so that those who enter may see the light.

My Reviews: Ma

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My, my, have I touched raw nerves ???!!!

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ToyKeeper wrote:
Wait, is that why Elvis disappeared???

OMG, I think it might explain Michael Jackson too!

Dangit, why did I say “OMG”? Goddesses don’t say OMG, it’s like saying “oh my self!” I’m so confused… must be spending too much time around humans.

I’m’n’a stop thinking about this and go back to playing with photons.


Did I mention that messing with flashlight is a strange hobby, which could make you look weird to the others?

You should stop it by now, and pick up some normal hobbies instead!

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I have recently read a very technical study (and of course I did not bookmark it's location) that compared using a red light or other colours or a low white light in a dark setting in order to evaluate which colour was best for dark adaptation/night vision  recovery. I believe it was a US Military study but I may be wrong.

The conclusion was that a dim neutral white light was best for dark adaptation recovery than any red or other colour light. Hence Moonlight mode Smile

 

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bibihang wrote:
Did I mention that messing with flashlight is a strange hobby, which could make you look weird to the others?

You should stop it by now, and pick up some normal hobbies instead!


Silly bibihang, why would I want to be normal?

It sounds dreadful, especially if I’d have to stop playing with lights.

Most of my favorite people certainly don’t qualify as normal… Take my friend Bug-Eyed Earl for example. He’s great fun to have around, but I don’t see him very often because he never answers when I send minions to invite him to parties:

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BLightSam wrote:
1. BLF is flooded with people who gets up in the middle of the night.

I go to bed late a lot while my girlfriend is sleeping. The side I sleep on is in the far end of the room. Now, get this, I know it’s gonna be hard to grasp, but with moonlight mode she is undisturbed by any light and I see enough to get into bed. I wouldn’t think it’s that uncommon that a lot of the times the two people in a couple go to bed at different times. I know man, this shit is really confusing, like I’m talking about going to bed in response to you talking about the getting out part, but don’t give up dude! You can figure this one out, maybe if you read it couple of times, I’m rooting for ya!

BLightSam wrote:
On the other hand, budget/economy lodging in travel where multiple beds in one room with strangers do not mention moon light flashlight.

Yeah, don’t you hate it when there isn’t an exact set of instructions of what to do and not to do? Like yelling in the middle of the night, turning on the lights, or like lifting the toilet lid when you need to take a pee! I mean, man, are we supposed to think for ourselves or what? How stupid do they think we are!?

BLightSam wrote:
2. Documentary on multiple day hiking don’t ever show people reading at night. They show, though, people sitting around a camp fire singing or conversing.

Oh yeah! That would be awesome! A documentary showing someone reading in a tent. Man, wouldn’t that be cool!? People would watch that shit for hours! You’re on to something, start a show man, or sell the idea to Discovery channel.

Oh wait, I’ve seen people in adventure races on TV use really low light to read maps in the dark… but of coarse, that doesn’t count! It was reading books we where talking about, not reading maps, duh! Or wait, maybe it wasn’t low enough to be called moon mode? Yeah, that has to be it! They use low but not “moon mode” low, coz that would be sooo stupid.

You seem to have a lot of experience in outdoor life and multiple day hiking, having seen so many documentary on the subject to know what people do and don’t do. Man, I bet you’ve got loads of experience in many other fields too, gathered from watching all that TV.

BLightSam wrote:
My, my, have I touched raw nerves ???!!!

No way man, I’m with ya! I mean, if there are no specific instructions written about it or they don’t do it on TV, then it’s useless and people that think otherwise need to learn! The word must be spread!
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I rejoice in all y’all’s exercise of your Free Speech Right, but arguing over opinions is just idiotic. Stupid, even.

And I can safely say that I am unable rightly to apprehend how someone could live in a place and not know their way around their own home in the dark! Even SWMBO, who never turns a light OFF, hardly hesitates when the power goes off.

And I’m no Bear Grills, but in all the miles I’ve hiked in the woods as a camper, AT-hiker, hunter, etc. I cannot imagine having the leg strength to haul a BOOK along!!! Reading in the tent? Why don’t you go outside, keep your flashlight in your pocket and enjoy the NIGHT???? You’d be amazed at how beautiful the world around you is after the sun goes down!! There will be plenty of time for reading when you get back to your asphalt jungle.

Now back to your regularly-scheduled Opinion-Tennis Match…

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

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Consider this thread a practice session for how to carry on a discussion without descending into abuse.

I read a lot, always have, even on pack trips(that’s backpacking not mule packing where the four legged critter schleps your gear though I’ve done that as well). As a child our family would bring a book or two along to read aloud by the campfire but back then there weren’t rechargeable cells so the reader had to either tip the book to the light or sit with their back to it rather than waste the precious AA cells(I still have my 2xAA plastic Duracell light). An hour or so of that and then off to the bag to watch shooting stars or spot satellites. Nowadays, I take advantage of moon mode to pack an even smaller single cell AAA light and recharge it with a tiny solar charger and read because I can no longer easily see satellites or shooting stars.

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

hank
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> because I can no longer easily see satellites or shooting stars
When I had my cataract surgery, they wanted to put in a plastic lens focused at close reading distance (to match my other nearsighted eye).
I insisted on one focused at infinity, for watching the Moon and stars at night on camping trips.

I’ve never regretted it.

Oh, and that’s part of how I learned about how different people’s perception of brightness can be.

Younger people’s pupils open far wider than older people’s pupils.
Younger people’s retinas are much more contrast-sensitive than older people.
Some people have “visual snow” — noise — in their vision.

Young people can see the dark; older people tend to see the noise inside of their heads.

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Visual equivalent to eh? Wink

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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hank wrote:
Young people can see the dark; older people tend to see the noise inside of their heads.
THAT should be on a T-shirt, right there!! Good ‘un!

My “expiration date” passed in the last century, so I’m not willing to miss a moment now that SWMBO came along & gave me a reprieve.

Still, I make some mistakes:

Before I got LASIK I could see a few of Jupiter’s moons.

Now I can see well enough, unaided, at some distance, in daylight, but in the dark every point of light looks like a ‘*’… :_( Y’all should really go out & enjoy the night while you can. The books will be there when you get back. And consider that LASIK is for people who care more about how they LOOK than how they SEE. IMNERHO, of course.

You must be quite strong, as we would even unpackage food, to save the weight of the bags/boxes/cans; and even the weight of water wasn’t welcome in the pack so we learned to freeze-dry what didn’t come that way.

I love reading. Been doing it since age 3. As you might surmise from my writing style, I’ve paid attention. However, I still prefer to live in the moment rather than reading about it. Even miles from anywhere on the AT when we used to hike parts of that, I always preferred sitting around the campfire with family and friends (old and new) telling tales at night anyway. As you also might surmise, I still love spinning yarns…

“There is no darkness but ignorance.”

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Yes, we did all the repackaging business and counted pounds by the 1/4 ounce and it helped to have an at least average build but part of the experience is deciding what’s important to you which won’t be the same as for someone else.

Quote:
And consider that LASIK is for people who care more about how they LOOK than how they SEE. IMNERHO, of course.
Probably best to stop with it didn’t work for you as this last is a rather harsh judgement. Both of my brothers have had it and are well glad of it though I’m sure you could find plenty of other people with less positive results.

As I see it the basic issue in threads such as this is the development of a point of view that works well for an individual but fails when applied to everyone. We are individuals but time and again there is a lack of whatever it is that allows some enough flexibility to permit others to make different choices and others not. “Live and let live” loses it’s meaning when followed by “unless you’re not like me”.

This is why programmable drivers are so popular though I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t want choice. That too is a choice and I’m fine with that. Smile

Three Tanna leaves to give him life, nine to give him movement. But what if he eats the whole bag?

Scott

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Dimbo The Blinky wrote:
And I’m no Bear Grills, but in all the miles I’ve hiked in the woods as a camper, AT-hiker, hunter, etc. I cannot imagine having the leg strength to haul a BOOK along!!! Reading in the tent? Why don’t you go outside, keep your flashlight in your pocket and enjoy the NIGHT???? You’d be amazed at how beautiful the world around you is after the sun goes down!! There will be plenty of time for reading when you get back to your asphalt jungle.

Sigh… Once again proof of how shortsighted people can be. The concept of a book while tenting is pointless for you, therefor it is pointless to all…

Say I’m out tenting in the area I’m climbing at. Yes, tenting is a common practice amongst climbers, and generally climbers bring along guidebooks for the climbing area they are in. Are they big and heavy? Well, the more the routes in the area, the heavier the guidebook. And let’s say they want to spend the day climbing instead of fumbling around amongst the many routes to choose from, simply guessing which ones are within their abilities. Well, then reading the guidebook is essential. Reading it at night is rather common as daylight is usually spent climbing. Selecting the right route or area of routes for a day of climbing can either be done by gathering around the book by the campfire, or if someone who is more interested can read the book and then give suggestions. Both scenarios are very common, even with the same group during the same trip. I’ve spent many hours reading climbing guidebooks. At home, on planes, in hotels, at restaurants… and in tents. The more you know about the area you’re going to climb in, the more you get out of the trip. I tend to more interested in this than my girlfriend, so I tend to read it more. While she is awake I rather spend my time with her, so I tend to read it quite often when she is asleep, beside me in the tent, and present interesting options in the morning.

This doesn’t only apply to climbing… It applies to caving, hiking, canyoning, kayaking etc etc. Sure, if I’d have hiked out into the woods and pitched my tent only to be out in the woods, I wouldn’t be bringing no books either. But if you’re in a specific area that has a guidebook for the multitude of options (like climbing areas, national parks with many hiking trails, areas canyoning or caving etc etc), reading about and selecting amongst the many options for the next day is part of the fun by many, especially for those of us who don’t want to have everything planned out in detail prior to leaving home.

You might not believe this, but reading the guidebook can actually help you get more out of the moments you are staying in the area. I’d even go so far as to say it’s rather common that people do this. I find it amazing that there are people who can’t think beyond there own world, even with such a simple thing as to why someone would actually bring a book when tenting, let alone why someone would find moonlight useful. But we’re all different… the world would be a boring place if we were not Beer

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When I was in the scouts, many decades back, this was an example of our low light, dark adapted, moon mode Smile

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Cayenne wrote:
When I was in the scouts, many decades back, this was an example of our low light, dark adapted, moon mode Smile
![IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/157lqir.png[/IMG]!
+1 Wink
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I think there should not really be anything about imagining uses for moonlight, because there are many valid uses, and when it comes down to it, another light is not really necessary to any of us here, is it? Wink I think what really happens is there is an large undercurrent of people who don’t post about this and are unhappy about moonlight more because of what happens when light builds are discussed for group buys. They have a hard time expressing the annoyance, so if they do say anything they reach for reasons like “what do you really need it for” instead of what is really going on: the inflated importance of moonlight over other functions. There just shouldn’t be sacrifices to other much more common functions that are made as a “compromise” so the moonlight can be included, if moonlight is not the main attraction of the light. Now I’m even one who likes moonlight. But if its going to reduce my max by much or get rid of useful functions, no thanks. At times I even desire moonlight mode most, but it doesn’t have to be on EVERY light for those uses to be satisfied.

Probably for the vast majority of non vocal users, moonlight is pretty unused, and when a few want to specify exacting sub lumen standards for moonlight mode and go into arguments whether it is “true moonlight” and this becomes the “most important issue” for the entire light…until the light is made, taken home and used, when 490/500 of the users I suspect don’t end up caring or using moonlight ever anyways. Of course whatever you want to use the light for is the “most important use”.

I do really like having a moon mode, but I just feel moonlight specifics should never be prioritized above other functions, unless THAT is the main function/purpose of the light. If it sacrifices some other functionality to include it and the light is not targeting sub lumen lovers, if we are being fair then “sorry, we cant do .0003lumens here” is the reasonable answer. Its like if we had a few people into morse code arguing about the necessary speed and brightness of a SOS function here…nobody really cares but them, and just think if we had to up the moonlight lumen output just to include this function for morse code lovers…it would be just as fair as moonlight prioritized over max output, but there would be many people saying they wont play in the sandbox anymore if the moonlight mode is “not a moonlight” anymore so as to include a proper morse code. However, if you ever need them, both are still nice to have.

I did actually use my moonlight a few months ago, to go to the toilet when I actually remembered to put the light with moon mode by the bed and remembered hit it into moon mode to do my…classified tasks…it is kinda nice occasionally. It will also be nice when I go camping again some summer, or in emergencies for long runtime, but not nice enough to sacrifice anything like max output or a usable low mode or anything actually commonly used.

Thankfully, it looks like if we just hang on and stick to our guns in group buys, we can easily have both max output and moonlight modes. Yup, I really want it too in that case.

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B42 wrote:
… when it comes down to it, another light is not really necessary to any of us here, is it? Wink

But I neeeeed it!

Anyway, I tried to derail the thread. I failed. I just don’t like the divisive drama over whose personal preferences are best.

The most enlightening (hah) post I saw here was the one about an actual survey, since people actually collected some real data on the topic. Granted, there’s heavy sampling bias in that survey because of the audience polled… but it’s a step in the right direction.

Edit: I’ve heard it said that there are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. Which makes a good point, with all the ways data can be collected or interpreted badly. Regardless, I think data is better than no data, since it’s less unreliable than the alternatives.

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B42 wrote:
I think there should not really be anything about imagining uses for moonlight, because there are many valid uses, and when it comes down to it, another light is not really necessary to any of us here, is it? Wink I think what really happens is there is an large undercurrent of people who don’t post about this and are unhappy about moonlight more because of what happens when light builds are discussed for group buys. They have a hard time expressing the annoyance, so if they do say anything they reach for reasons like “what do you really need it for” instead of what is really going on: the inflated importance of moonlight over other functions. There just shouldn’t be sacrifices to other much more common functions that are made as a “compromise” so the moonlight can be included, if moonlight is not the main attraction of the light. Now I’m even one who likes moonlight. But if its going to reduce my max by much or get rid of useful functions, no thanks. At times I even desire moonlight mode most, but it doesn’t have to be on EVERY light for those uses to be satisfied [snip]

I think this is the main issue…that is the perceived giving up of something valuable for an “unneeded mode”. From reading and participating in some of the group buys there has been a vocal number of people who wanted moonlight in the Starry SA-22 and Eagle Eye X6 buys. Those who didn’t want it weren’t as vocal because it wasn’t an important need for them and they didn’t realize that the high wouldn’t be as high or the modes were compromised because of it (if it fact that was even the case).

So it’s an issue because ultimately something was received that was less than desirable. I bet that in the absence of group buys that the moonlight issue would never have come up in BLF.

Personally I’ve only used moonlight twice in my life (jungles in other countries) since I live in an urban area, and even then I could have managed without moonlight. But nothing forced me to buy lights with moonlight and in the end that’s how it should be. But group buys are a bit different…so many promises are made or assumed by people that the end product can only be disappointing for some.

Caveat Emptor is the rule in buying Smile

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Meh.

As with every online discussion, no one can see things from the other side and so think the other person is an idiot.

This is why we can’t have nice things. (Or intelligent discussions.)

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ToyKeeper wrote:
B42 wrote:
… when it comes down to it, another light is not really necessary to any of us here, is it? Wink

But I neeeeed it!

Anyway, I tried to derail the thread. I think I failed. I just don’t like the divisive drama over whose personal preferences are best.

The most enlightening (hah) post I saw here was the one about an actual survey, since people actually collected some real data on the topic. Granted, there’s heavy sampling bias in that survey because of the audience polled… but it’s a step in the right direction.

That’s fine, derail away! Yeah I don’t like drama either, I was attempting to explain one “side” to another in hopes they would understand each other better, but non-extreme views attempting understanding are very ignore-able anymore these days Silly

That opinion poll for conversation and understanding and how they are mis-interpreted is pretty important, though not for what I think you are thinking here. The poster of that poll you are talking about already mis-interprets it as “This means that less than 1 person in 20 dislikes it”. When if you read the poll, the most logical conclusion is about 20% of polled have stated mild to strong preference against, and 7% admit to not really trying it out yet. And I, a “vocal anti-moonlight poster” am actually counted as “pro moonlight” in that poll. About 73% appear to be “for” it, I’m in this group, but have spoken out against including it at times, hmm, interesting, maybe the design of this poll is questionable, or its not very suited for the purpose its being used for…

Also remember these opinion polls are also an unofficial sub group of: 1) us nutballs who like LED lights enough to participate in forums on them 2) Smaller sub group of those who have actually tried moonlight, 3) Even tinier selected sub-group of those nutballs who have strong opinions on the topic. And, as an aforementioned LED nutball who has tried moonlight and has a strong enough opinion to comment, I would have voted no to moonlight on a light before, yet I am in the second strongest pro-moonlight category…kinda badly done poll to get this kind of meaning out of it. I find a badly done poll on opinionated nutballs not too reflective of even general forum light users, let alone all users, and pretty illustrative of how polls and studies are generally mis-used.

Yup I like it a lot when I want it, heck include two hidden moonlight modes of different levels and thats awesome! Just don’t dim my brightest mode, leave me with no low mode, or force me to start in it always, then the answer is no way, don’t even put it in! Wink Of course now we even have a few people who are now saying only 3-4 modes only on a light or they wont buy it…you never can please everyone, there is always a sub group with extreme wants.

The important thing is to be able to be reflective of the general population of users when looking at “features” and weighing importance of them. Highest high mode is going to be way near the top of all features (in most lights), moonlight is going to be a mid importance level due to many BLFers liking it, and “just 3 modes” is going to be a bit above “must have strobe”, which appears above “must have SOS”. Just look at the D80 or the Eagle Eye promising 1500 lumens for illustration vs the newly released D80 with lower moonlight. How many have gone and purchased it instead of the D80 “in production” with the higher high or foregone the group buy to go buy D80 moon instead of the Eagle Eye? All have moon mode. Highest high is the main defining factor getting us to wait for the purchase, not moon.

I’d also like to say I really appreciate you for working on keeping moon modes and high high and other modes in that EE group buy though so we don’t actually have to choose anymore Toykeeper! Smile

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mfruit wrote:
Meh.

As with every online discussion, no one can see things from the other side and so think the other person is an idiot.

This is why we can’t have nice things. (Or intelligent discussions.)

Yeah, saying the other side is just stupid never helps.

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Moonlight mode or no moonlight mode. Why is that even a question?

Looks to me like simply personal preference. If someone wants 3000 lumens I certainly won’t be telling them that it is foolish or unnecessary, even though I might have no use for it.

These aren’t the moonlight modes you’re looking for.
You can go now.
Move along, move along.

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I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

But that is old fashioned now. Todays Philosophy can be summed up by

"If You don't agree with me, You should be forced to!"

 

Where did all this Arrogance come from?

Riding for 57 years, last off was black ice in ’73.

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Location: shenzhen,China

The moonlight mode is useful when you have to get up to teh bedroom without disturbing your roommates or hurting your eyes. I used to have a keychain with warm and tender light, but it does’t work any more. And I’m looking for one now.

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ToyKeeper
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Joined: 01/12/2013 - 14:40
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LightsCastle wrote:
I used to have a keychain with warm and tender light, but it does’t work any more. And I’m looking for one now.

I’ve heard good things about the Preon P0, which has a 0.25 lumen mode, but I haven’t tried it myself. I think it’s probably the smallest 1xAAA light available, though the DQG Tiny is very close.

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