I just joined the forum hoping someone could give me some advice on upgrading my chargers for 18650 batteries. A year ago I discovered high Lumen CREE flashlights on Ebay and have since bought a mix of various batteries and chargers. I love the lights, but recharging takes forever!
I read through a few of HKJ’s charger reviews. They are very detailed, and I must admit a bit over my head. I did take away from these that charger electronics do matter and that using the wrong charger can lead possibly to toxic gas/fire/explosion.
Here is a list of the batteries (all Li-Ion) I have and any related chargers. As time went on I purchased higher and higher capacity (not thinking of charging times):
BRC 18650 6000mAh 3.7V (quantity = eight)
4 Slot “18650 Smart Charger” Model HD-077B output 4.2V and 1200mA
GTLenergy NK 18650 3.7V 5300mAh (quantity = four)
Nanfu Electronic 4 Slot HG-1412W charger - selectable voltage (1.2V, 1.5V, 3.6V, and 4.2V) all at 1200mA
Ultrafire BRC 18650 3.7V 3000mAh (quantity = six)
Unbranded 2 lot travel charger output 4.2V 650mA (three of these - seem cheap, bundled with flashlights)
I am looking at three chargers, but again want suggestions. I am fine paying $40 if it means a quicker/safer charging cycle:
- XTAR VP2 (2 slots about $30)
- XTAR VP4 (4 slots about $40)
Soshine S1max-V3 (4 slots about $40)
From what I took away from HKJ’s reviews, the XTAR is his favorite. Is the S1max at 1000mA per slot too much power for any of my batteries? I would only use it with Li-Ion 18650 batteries? Is there any danger of fumes leaking or worse? Any idea how long it would take to charge 4 of the large 6000mAh batteries in it?
Only reason I see to go for VP2 vs VP4 is the USB charging ability.
I was going to buy the recommended product on eBay. Is there any risk of counterfeit products? Any suggested US based sellers?
I would dump those batteries and start again. Never mind getting fake chargers (Xtar have an easily checkable ID code) - your cells are trash, I’m sorry to say.
I have an XTAR VP1 and VP2 , they are both great chargers but like you already noticed the VP1 is not USB
The one thing about the VP4 I don’t like is when charging with all 4 bays it will only due .5 amps so your big cells take awhile.
I have never used a Soshine so I can’t help you there.
US seller I use is Mountain Electronics, He posts here as RMM. excellent reputation and very well deserved.
No 18650 batteries over 3400mah, no matter what they or the seller say.
The 3600mAh 18650 Panasonic is the only exception I know
Like woody said, dump those batteries and start over
You can also check reviews by HKJ, even if for a new person into flashlight world it's kind of hard to understand the graphs, we can tell you that Ultrafire and BRC are garbage.
I know it’s not what you wanted to hear, but they’re correct. Cheap batteries can be dangerous just like cheap chargers can be. They also are usually poor performers, so you won’t be getting the best out of your flashlight. HKJ has great reviews of batteries as well.
Nitecore and Xtar are preffered charger manufacturers, but I prefer Xtar. I have a VP2 and an MC1, and they both serve their purposes very well.
I also would recommend mtnelectronics. They have a good selection of quality chargers and the owner is very helpful.
Xtar Chargers are atbglenn approved.:) Chinese batteries that don't have Panasonic, Samsung, LG, or Sanyo cells under their wrappers, avoid like the plague!
I started my flashlight career with various 18650 and 16340 cells with the word "Fire" in the name. Most were useless.
I soon figured out that it was a huge scam. Fraud and lies, totally unabashed, about the capacity of the cells. And about the output of the flashlights. I don't understand how eBay and Amazon can allow obviously fraudulent marketing like that.
So I did some research and then decided to only buy Panasonic 3400 mAh NCR18650B. The were (and still are?) the best. Not the cheapest... Since then I have also bought some specific high drain INR cells from Samsung for some few special flashlights that can use the extra power from high drain cells.
I have also bought a smart charger, OPUS BT-3100, so I can test my batteries and actually measure their capacity. Actually some of my BlablaFire cells were pretty decent. Almost 1800 mAh. But most were well below 1000 mAh.
I buy my Panasonic 3400 mAh NCR18650B from one of the big reseller companies in China. Not very fast deliveries, but I get the real thing and they are pretty cheap, compared to other suppliers. Never had any real problems, and I have improved my patience quite a bit as a consequence.
Wow, thank you everyone who responded! First off, I was surprised how quickly I received so many answers. It never occurred to me that my batteries may be crap. I just assumed that were all made in China. My bad.
I will say that empirical evidence seems to support that my batteries are sub optimal. After charging the batteries for 6+ hours, I put two in a flashlight. The flashlight is super bright, but after maybe 15 minutes it starts to dim. Shouldn’t these batteries last longer?
I am going to buy new batteries and a new charger or two and dump all of my stuff when they arrive.
From my quick research it looks like people favor the Panasonic 3400 mAh NCR18650B. I was checking mtnelectronics and now see I need to be check if these batteries will fit in my flashlight. That will do a little digging. I need a total of 12 batteries to fill all my flashlights with no spares. I will keep you posted.
In terms of chargers, I think I will start out with one XTAR VP4 and go from there.
How much of an extra run time will a Panasonic 3400 mAh battery give over a 2900 mAh? This would be in a flashlight that uses 2 batteries. Is it 17% longer since it has 17% more capacity? I’m wondering if the slightly smaller protected Panasonic would work just as fine and would charge much quicker.
If $40 isn’t a problem, then why not get the Opus BT-3100? In addition to charging, it will also test your cells and tell you what their real capacity is.
I went ahead and just ordered one XTAR VP4 and 4 Panasonic 3400 mAh NCR18650B from Mountain Electronics. I measured my current batteries and think these slightly wider and longer ones will fit in my flashlights. I will let you know how they work out.
Update: Hi I just opened my new XTAR VP4 and 4 Panasonic 3400 mAh NCR18650B from Mountain Electronics and wanted to share first impressions. (Note: I was out of town for 5 days - so the delay from my last post is not due to Mountain Electronics).
I am very happy so far with the VP4. I like the feedback that the LCD provides. The four batteries all started at around 3.7V. They have been charging now for a few hours and are up to 4V.
I also looked under the wrapper of one of my Ultrafire BRC 18650 3.7V 3000mAh. There was no wiring or any circuitry to be found. In fact, the top of the battery appears to be removable. I am wondering if it is a case of a smaller cell inside a larger casing. I did not want to risk any form of toxic exposure by prying it open. I assume all of you would recommend I toss all of my original batteries.
A couple of questions from a newbie. I read in a few places that it is bad to fully discharge these batteries. Is this correct?
If so, when do you know to charge them? If they sit in a flashlight unused, how long will they hold their charge? If I do use the flashlight, do I wait until the beam starts to dimm or should I check them every few weeks?
Thanks!
P.S. Mountain Electronics was great to work with. They were running a rebate special on the purchase of the charger and batteries. My order shipped promptly and the rebate was credited to my PayPal account quickly.
Here’s the short answer, some conservative rules of thumb. Folks may nitpick the numbers I use as things can vary a tad based on cell type, chemistry, and opinion/preference, but this will get you started.
Li-ion cells are “safe” if you have a brain (and use it).
Use a quality charger and cells - looks like you took some earlier advice, kudos for that.
Respect Li-ion cells - they hold a lot of energy and can give it up quickly.
Be present when charging (no, you don’t have to stare).
Remove cells promptly after charging is complete.
Use a voltmeter. Your VP4 can fill this need.
Fully charged is 4.2V +/- 0.5V for most cells, like the NCR18650B’s.
Toss on charger if down to 3.7-3.8V, with 3.5V as the lower end. You can top off any time.
If you discharge a cell below 3V, set it aside, do not try to charge it, toss or ask advice on BLF.
Store cells long term at ~35-40% charge (you should get them from the manufacturer that way)
Toss any cell with “fire” as part of its name.
Keep reading BLF, you’ll learn a ton.
The long version:
Li-ion cells are considered a “delicate” chemistry. Overcharge=fire, discharge below 2.5V (typical, depends on cell) then try to charge=fire, short circuit=fire. Buy any cell with “fire” as part of its name=fire. A quality cell, charged in a quality charger, and used in flashlight=best thing since sliced bread. SO… they use these things in laptops, power tools, power banks, etc - are we overreacting with respect to safety? No. For consumer use they’re packaged into battery packs which contain circuitry that monitors voltage, temperature & current draw. They also contain the charging circuitry that follows the proper current-voltage charging profile (delicate, remember?). If you use the cells outside of such battery packs, YOU are now responsible for all this stuff. A good charger will prevent over charging and will follow the proper charging protocol. A lot of flashlight driver circuits (almost all the good ones) will auto cutoff when voltage gets low (~3V) to avoid over discharge, but don’t assume this (the cheap eBay ones may not). But I don’t wait that long. A Panasonic NCR18650B 3400 mAh is essentially empty at 3.4V. I don’t know of any good reason to discharge down to (or past) 3V unless you’re testing capacity and want to completely drain the cell. If you do inadvertently discharge them too low, then it’s dangerous to try to charge them (again, delicate chemistry).
You’ll get a feel for things after having the lights and batteries a while. For example, I keep a couple of single 18650 lights by the back door for taking dogs out at night… I know to check those every 3-4 weeks and they’re usually hanging out around 3.7-3.8V, so I toss them on the charger. Li-ion doesn’t have memory so you can top off as often as you like. My usual threshold is if I check a cell and it’s 4V or higher I leave it alone, 3.9V or lower I’ll toss it on the charger since I have it out. Finally, for storing cells long-term it’s best to not store them fully charged, but rather at about 40%. They should ship to you that way.
Lastly, to protect from over current and over/under charge, cells can be had with an additional protection circuit, typically mounted to the negative terminal. They’re called “protected” cells, and are a few mm longer than the bare cell and usually a tad wider as there is an additional wrap to hold the protection circuitry in place. For single cell lights you can decide if you want the “belt and suspenders” approach of having the additional protection. For multi-cell lights there is a stronger argument for their use, depending on the light. I use protected cells most of the time, FWIW. This is a whole separate topic that can spawn lively debate, and you’ll find plenty to read on this subject here on BLF.
Thank you for all of the tips!! I printed out your post and put it in the VP4 box for future reference.
I also decided that all battery purchases will be for protected cells.
Since I plan to be present during charging, I think I need a second charger. I would like to get one that can also handle mu NiMH batteries. I have a dozen or more of these that I stopped using because the various chargers purchased with them were low quality and unreliable. The VP4 doesn’t handle NiMH. Do you have any suggestions on a good 4 bank charger that can handle Li-ion and NiMH? I probably should start a new thread for this when I have a moment…
Lol, at the time of this writing I have 12 total posts. You should be wary of people like me
That said, Nitecore D4, Xtar VC4, or Opus BT-3100 are all good choices, and if I had to pick one it would be the VC4, ordered from mountain electronics.
While I have LOTS of battery chargers (all types) and LOTS of money tied up in them, most are not what one could call ‘beginner friendly’ so I won’t recommend any of my favorites to you.
For decent accuracy, ease of use (virtually goof proof) and standard charge voltage flexibility for different lithium battery chemistries - I would recommend the Xtar VP2. It even has a 1a USB charging port. I use these when on the road or traveling. Having only 2 bays, it will provide up to 1 amp to each battery being charged. The 0.25a and 0.5a settings are handy for the smaller 18350 and 18490/500 batteries.
Another voice for not purchasing cheap chargers or batteries. While many people think that all batteries explode, there are 18650 battery incidents. Remember the Apple laptop battery fires? 18650. Tesla? Li-Ion batteries.
I started out with cheap batteries and charger. I now only buy Panasonic batteries and I have an XTar charger that I like. Because of fakes, I only buy from reputable sellers and I like Mountain Electronics buying experience. I bought a XinTD and it came with the threads well oiled! That’s a first!
If you have multi-battery flashlights, there are additional precautions you should take. http://batteryuniversity.com is a good read as are threads here and theres a battery forum at CPF.
Finally, my batteries are charged on the kitchen counter and only while I am in the house. I don’t leave them charging overnight, but try to take them off the charger as soon as they are fully charged.
I don’t think I am paranoid, just cautious. Oh I don’t leave my laptop or phones on the chargers indefinitely either.
Hi man. If you already have a VP4, I woul advise you to get a DEDICATED NIMH charger. A jack of all trades is usually a master of none and this saying has never been truer in the charger world…
