A couple of Eneloop questions - like is this fake?

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myhken
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A couple of Eneloop questions - like is this fake?

I’m getting in several orders of Eneloops batteries, all got from Ebay. The fist packages I got was direct from Japan. They seems legit, they have all the legit stuff on them, the date code on the batteries matches the date code on the package.
I then got two packages Eneloop Pro from a seller in Hong Kong. They was legit. Order two more, this time, normal white AAA batteries, and this time, I got a package without any date on it, and it says that the batteries is produced in Japan, but packaged in China.

On the batteries, there is a date code, its 14 01 RK (so from January 2014). But the first capacity test 0.5A gave me only around 630 average on 4 of the batteries. (is this normal, since it's 1.8 years since they was produced, so maybe several tests will increase the capacity? I always use a charge - discharge - charge test, so they got fully charged before discharging. Using C3100 v2.2 and Lii500) Now running a new test 0.3A to see if there is any difference. But what do you think, did he sell me legit batteries the first time, then false the second time?

The front

The back, no date, and it says that they are produced in Japan, but packaged in China. Fake or real?

The one to the left is from a seller in Japan, and the item was sent from Japan. The one to the right was from the same Hong Kong seller that sold me the white Eneloops over.

Kenneth Myhre

breinrules
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Have you tried contacting chibim? Hes the eneloop guy as far as i know. And he sells them too. Lels Silly

myhken
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breinrules wrote:

Have you tried contacting chibim? Hes the eneloop guy as far as i know. And he sells them too. Lels Silly

Sent him a PM.

The second capacity test, this time at 0.3A gave me: 645 – 677 – 675 – 648 mAh. So still under 750. Maybe chibim have some info on them.

Either I accept the batteries, or I ask for a refund – full or partial. I have paid £15, so if they are fake, I want my money back.
But strange that he has sold me better batteries that was/is real, then sells me fake ones on the second buy.

Kenneth Myhre

ChibiM
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Not an expert, but will try to help.

First off, I feel sad that you arent sure whether you have real or fake eneloops. 
One of my main reasons for buying eneloops is that I don`t even have to test them, and trust them for 100%. But that clearly isnt the case for some. Especially not considering they were bought from an unknown source. I bought all of my eneloops in Japan, while I lived there, so it never even crossed my mind I could have a fake eneloop.

A couple of questions:

1. can you show the link to the actual sales?

2. which charger did you use to test the cells? you said you used the Lii500 and Opus?
   Do you know what numbers other people get with AAA eneloops on the same charger?

3. did you test other standard (eneloop) AAA cells as well?

4. can you weigh the batteries? how heavy are they?

 

645 677 675 648 are pretty close, but I`m curious what other AAA cells` capacity show on your charger.
It could just be your charger, showing lower numbers for AAA cells.

Although I haven`t seen any proof of 4th gen fakes, its hard to believe nobody would like to copy them, so it wouldnt be a total surprise seeing them being copied.Oops.. yours are 3rd gen... and there have been reports of quite a few Sanyo eneloop fakes.

I found a website which claims to show the difference between real and fake 4th gen eneloops
http://quatangso.net/pin-sac-eneloop-1-1-1257205.html Not really important, as yours are 3rd gen, my bad.

But they only show the packaging. If I had to trust the pictures, yours look the same (I mean without date code, and not with the eneloop text straight) as the ones on the website claimed to be fakes. Again, there isn`t any real proof (rather than packaging) that they are fakes.

 

another thing that drew my attention, is that you said the eneloop PRO AA cells you bought, came from Japan?
Quote: The one to the left is from a seller in Japan, and the item was sent from Japan. The one to the right was from the same Hong Kong seller that sold me the white Eneloops over. Quote
That is very unlikely! In Japan they don`t sell batteries in those packages, and they don`t show the BK-3HCCE code on the back, and there is not English text.. so you might have made a mistake.. if you havent, feel free to post a link to those cells as well, as I am pretty sure something is incorrect.

myhken
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ChibiM wrote:
Quote:
4. can you weigh the batteries? how heavy are they?

They have a weight of 11.7g – the newer BK-4MCCE has a weight of 11.6g

Quote:
2. which charger did you use to test the cells? you said you used the Lii500 and Opus? Do you know what numbers other people get with AAA eneloops on the same charger?
Quote:
3. did you test other standard (eneloop) AAA cells as well?

First used the Opus BT-C3100 v2.2 charger at 0.5A, then used the Lii500 charger at 0.3A.
No I don’t know what numbers others gets, but I have tested all my other Eneloops, and here is some examples:
1. Normal White Eneloop BK-4MCCE – 691 – 707 – 707 – 703
2. Eneloop Pro AAA BK-4HCCE – 938 – 979 – 938 – 962 – 942 – 917 – 917 – 899
3. Eneloop Tropical BK-3MCCE – 2034 – 1968 – 1944 – 1994 – 1928 – 1905 – 1933 – 1922
4. Eneloop Pro AA BK-3HCCE – 2506 – 2566 – 2524 – 2615 – 2579 – 2534 – 2476 – 2501

Quote:
645 677 675 648 are pretty close, but I`m curious what other AAA cells` capacity show on your charger. It could just be your charger, showing lower numbers for AAA cells.

So as you can see, my chargers/discharger gives me great numbers on all my other Eneloops I have got so far. Except the package in question.

Quote:
another thing that drew my attention, is that you said the eneloop PRO AA cells you bought, came from Japan?

Sorry, my mistake. Did see that the seller had stock in the UK not Japan.

I’m waiting for packages like thees from Japan:
AA Pro – From this seller…

and

AA Standard from this seller… and this seller…

and

AAA Standard from this seller…

Quote:
That is very unlikely! In Japan they don`t sell batteries in those packages, and they don`t show the BK-3HCCE code on the back, and there is not English text..

I see English text on the pictures over, do that mean that they are fake? All sellers over has listed their batteries with stock in Japan, various cities. Is there a marked to import fake Eneloops batteries into Japan, and sell them as real?
I have paid around £15/8pcs for normal AA from Japan, and £13/8 pcs for normal AAA, and £17.45 for 8/pcs of AA Pro, all 4.gen batteries.

Kenneth Myhre

ChibiM
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According to the specifications, the AAA cells would be approximately 13grams per battery.

See for 3rd gen HR 4UTGB http://eneloop.pl/uploads/HR-4UTGB.pdf

See for 4th gen BK 4MCC http://eneloop.pl/uploads/BK-4MCC.pdf

Seeing that you weighed them both, and that they are both very very close, I would say thats nothing to worry about.

 

I would recommend doing a refresh/breakin for these 4 cells and see what you`ll get.

HKJ also tested these, and didnt come to the claimed 750mAh
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Eneloop%20AAA%20HR-4UTGB%20750mAh%20(White)%20UK.html

Can`t find other tests at the moment, but your numbers still seem pretty consistent.

 

about the English text, I meant the description in English. All your pictures in the above post are ligit Japanese cells. They show the words Panasonic and a few more words in English, but the description etc is all in Japanese.
My previous comment was about the 2 backsides you posted.. they have the description in English, and the packaging is totally different.

myhken
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ChibiM wrote:

About the weight, my Eneloop Pro AAA 4.gen weighs around 12.5g each. So still below 13. But it can be my weight. Using a “narc” weight, so should be accurate, still a weight is a weight.

Quote:
I would recommend doing a refresh/breakin for these 4 cells and see what you`ll get.

That I can do. Just now I’m testing the four last ones I got from the same seller. (did buy 8 white AAA, 3.gen), if the numbers is the same, maybe thats just how they is. I see that I’m not very far from HJK tests.
But a refresh can be the trick. Started one on the first 4. Will do the same with the last 4 also if the numbers is low.

I see that is not easy to decide if they is fake or not. Some signs, like the missing date on the package etc, and that is was packed in China, is not good. But the batteries gives close capacity values, not so far from HKJ tests, so I will give the Ebay seller the benefit of doubt, so will leave a positive feedback.

Quote:
My previous comment was about the 2 backsides you posted.. they have the description in English, and the packaging is totally different.

I understood that, but since there was English text on my other items also, I got little scared. But I hope, buying direct from Japan will give me 100% real Eneloops.

Kenneth Myhre

ChibiM
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Yep, buying directly from Japan will give you less headaches..

I would've recommended buying eneloops from trustable sources only. In Europe I would recommend nkon.nl

myhken
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ChibiM wrote:

Yep, buying directly from Japan will give you less headaches..

I would’ve recommended buying eneloops from trustable sources only. In Europe I would recommend nkon.nl

I did a refresh on the first 4 batteries of the 8 in question, and now they are at 800mAh all four.
The last four, after a normal first test, fresh from the package has – 710 – 717 – 734 – 740 mAh on them. So they look alright. Will run a refresh on them now also.
So maybe false alarm this time…but for sure, when/if I need more Eneloops, I will ONLY buy directly from Japan or from nkon.nl

Kenneth Myhre

ChibiM
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Now we're talking. Eneloops are well known for their consistency. 

Let us know what the last 4 cells do..

Would be nice if you could show the exact numbers for future reference.

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Any updates on the second set?

myhken
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ChibiM wrote:

Any updates on the second set?

The numbers for all 8 after a refresh: 783 – 807 – 799 – 825 (first set) 801 – 769 – 748 – 785 (second set) so OK numbers that?

Also did a refresh on 8 AAA Pro Eneloops: 948 – 960 – 965 – 981 (first set) 957 – 925 – 905 – 934 (second set).

I can see that the second BT-C3100 v2.2 charger gives little lower numbers then the first C3100 v2.2 charger.

Kenneth Myhre

Kouryu
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Those numbers look good to me.

Like ChibiM, I only buy from Japan or authorized resellers in the US (The official Eneloop page shows this).

I don't trust buying from Hong Kong or other Asian countries due to counterfeiting issues. The only exception perhaps, is if it was a charger set. Sanyo/Panasonic HK once said the packaging must have a hologram sticker to prove authenticity. I don't have any specific information on what it is supposed to look like.

myhken
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Kouryu wrote:

Those numbers look good to me.

Like ChibiM, I only buy from Japan or authorized resellers in the US (The official Eneloop page shows this).

I don’t trust buying from Hong Kong or other Asian countries due to counterfeiting issues. The only exception perhaps, is if it was a charger set. Sanyo/Panasonic HK once said the packaging must have a hologram sticker to prove authenticity. I don’t have any specific information on what it is supposed to look like.

A hologram sticker like in my first picture in my first post in this thread? At the right side on the front?

Kenneth Myhre

myhken
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Got 16pcs of Eneloop Pro AA 2450mAh batteries direct from Japan today. They was brand new, from June 2015. Tested 8 of them, and 6 had more then 2500mAh capacity, and two had 2450+/-mAh. Running a refresh on the last two just to see. But still, all are within the limit.

Kenneth Myhre

ChibiM
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now it`s time to stop worrying Wink

sit back and relax...