Review: DRY 3*XM-L 3*18650 4-mode neutral white

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DrJones
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Review: DRY 3*XM-L 3*18650 4-mode neutral white

I got myself the 4-mode DRY 3*XM-L in neutral white; 97$ incl shipping from CN Quality Goods. And I'm a bit disappointed.

PRO: Bright. Compact. Good machining, lubed. Comes with Spare parts.

CON: Unhappy with the driver: Not as bright as I hoped and with noticeable PWM, even on high. Waste of diameter. Slight donut.

(More images in this thread.)

Well, yes, it is brighter (flux) than any other light I have - it's my first triple XM-L. Still, I expected more. Just did some measurements: It's (in terms of flux/total brightness) 

  • 30% brighter than my 5*XP-G build (~800mA each)
  • 55% brighter than my Fenix TK35
  • about twice as bright as good typical budget XM-L lights.

Spot intensity is 12kcd, that's a NEMA-throw of 220m (note that NEMA specifies a rather generous definition of throw, realistic values are lower.)

The currents on freshly charged batteries (protected) are 2.15A / 0.86A / 0.22A, going down to 1.8A after a few minutes of use. 

I haven't yet opened it up completely and taken a look at the driver, but it seems it is a serial direct drive with PWM to get the average current down - even on high mode! The modes are

  • Low, 5% PWM, 260 Hz  (260 and 206 are no typo)
  • Medium, 20%, PWM 206 Hz
  • High, 50% PWM, 206 Hz
  • Strobe, 50% PWM, 10.3 Hz

So on high the ~4A for direct drive are reduced to ~2A average by (noticeable) PWM, not really a good way of current regulation. A real constant 2A would be significantly more efficient, i.e. yield more light.
Relative to high mode, the levels are 10%/40%/100%/100% Strobe actually looks brighter than high. There's no mode memory, if you switch it off for 4-5 seconds, it'll start at low again. That's a useable setup, but may be a matter of taste.

I clearly do not like the driver. There's a 3-mode driver version, specced 4A (just direct drive without PWM on high I guess), and it seems there will be a 5-mode version soon with L-M-H-Strobe-Turbo - I guess that just adds a 'no-pwm-direct-drive' @ ~4A. I hope I can get one of those drivers, even though that isn't my idea of a good driver either.
I am thinking about modding it to a parallel setup with a 24*AMC7135 driver instead.

The body is nice, well machined, and quite compact for a 3*18650 (15cm long). I wouldn't want to carry a light with 3*18650 in a row... Tube diameter is 47mm, maybe not that comfortable for small hands. Threads were lubed. Since the tailcap protrudes a bit, it doesn't tailstand completely stable, but stable enough.
For that price an AR coated front glass would have been nice. I just ordered one for 3$.

Included are a spare clicky and spare o-ring, a GITD tailcap to exchange with the default black one, and a nice lanyard.

The head diameter is 58mm, but the actual parabolic reflector areas do not really use that diameter well; much of the front area and thus some throw capability is wasted.

It does get hot on high, but not as much as the 4A version I suppose.

The tint is neutral as expected; I'd have preferred a slightly cooler neutral tone, but that's a matter of taste. However rendering of natural colors is much better with neutral white; in cool while most things look much more pale (though blue colors look more intense with the cool white lights).

The beam is relatively wide and floody as expected, with a slight donut effect.

 

UPDATE 

I took a look at the driver; as I expected: It's just a big FET, PWM-controlled by a mode controller IC. Unfortunately not an ATtiny.

 

The front glass is 2.5mm thick. My AR-coated 2.0mm thick replacement rattles Sad

 

Update 2

Got the new Turbo driver. All modes 207 Hz now, 

  • Low, 4.3%
  • Medium, 20%
  • High, 50%
  • Turbo, 90% (so still PWM... but barely noticeable at 90%)

And with mode memory now... There's an EEPROM chip on the upper PCB (IC1). I didn't get a battery contact board with it (even though I ordered one) and found soldering that one somewhat unpleasant.

 

Update 3

Did some measurements again with the new turbo driver:
Spot intensity 20 kcd, (NEMA-)throw 280m.
Modes are 6%/28%/68%/100%(turbo) with some estimated 2300lm on turbo.  

Edited by: sb56637 on 08/26/2014 - 17:22
Hikelite
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There's the possibility that this host has been used for a Triple Q5. http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10849356995&ad_id=&am_id=&cm_id=&pm_id=

Hikelite
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DrJones wrote:

only draws 1.8A, maybe 2A on full cells (I already had played with it for a short time before measuring).

 

I'm not completely sure but I think 2100 measured 2.2A on his 4 Mode? He asked RIC about it and it was told to him that the current draw will improve with unprotected cells.

My question, shouldn't a good driver (supposedly regulated @ 2.8A-3A) draw the same current, no matter the cells, protected or unprotected?

 

The taobao seller describes something interesting here, :

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=12200961733&ad_id=&am_id=&cm_id=&pm_id=

Not a current draw of 2.8A-3A, but of 2.5A-2.8A. And that the runtime on max is a half-hour using Sanyo 2600mAh. Isn't that looking like a inefficient driver?  

 

DrJones
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I clearly wouldn't want to get 2.5A or 3A that way. That meant 5A or 6A with 50% PWM...

Yes, a better driver would really limit the current to, say, 2.8A - as long as the battery can provide it. This is what linear drivers (like those 8*AMC7135) do. And that's why I'm thinking about a 3*8*AMC7135 mod.

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Have you thought about this solution? You may need to add a resistor in line as the XML has a much lower Vf than the p7. This was for a triple emitter mag but applies to the DRY triple too. (this comes from CPF user "download")
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Excellent review DrJones.  Thanks.  I suspect most if not all 4-mode buyers are going to want that 5-mode driver.  I certainly want it.  About the 4-5 seconds, is that the minimum amount of time you have to leave the light off for it to forget its last mode?  That's a little long for my liking.  I prefer 1.5 - 2 s.

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Thank you for the review!

That driver is certainly a joke. For that price it starts to look like nothing special. The manufacturing costs for that body can't be high, really.

 

DrJones wrote:


For that price an AR coated front glass would have been nice. I just ordered one for 3$.

Where have you found one?

DrJones
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I just made some measurements and added them into the 1st post.

@Ford Prefect: Yes, I know this setup, but didn't think of a resistor for an additional voltage drop. Good idea. That drop will become unwanted when the battery voltage goes down though. Hm, I'll think a bit more about that.

@peteybaby: Yes.

@ Hikelite: KD

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Aaaah, too bad this has that bad PWM Flat Stare

 

Thanks for the review!!

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Greetings DrJones,

Thank you for the review.  Sorry to hear the driver doesn't live up to the potential it could have been. 

 

Does anyone know if there is a prefered driver by KD, DX, MF, etc that could be used and physically fit without modifications?  Looking to buy this but would prefer a more efficient driver or one that can sustain higher lumen output for a longer time as DrJones suggests.  I might go the route of just buying the host and utilizing a driver that someone can recommend.

Best Regards.

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Thanks for the review Dr Jones! I've been wanting to read a detailed review on this one, I appreciate you doing it.

Frontpage'd and Sticky'd.

Budget Light Forum ...where Frugal meets with Flashlight!

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DrJones wrote:

The currents on freshly charged batteries (protected) are 2.15A / 0.86A / 0.22A, going down to 1.8A after a few minutes of use.

I see you have updated the current readings. Sad

fishmaniac
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Thanks for the review.

Honestly, there's nothing worse than a product failing to meet expectations. Especially a product that costs twice as much as the rest of the 3x XM-L lights. Which btw, aren't exactly budget in the first place. ($50+) 

You would think that at this price point, something as vital as the driver would be top notch.

Your bad news is my good news, so thanks for taking one for the team!

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fishmaniac wrote:

...a product that costs twice as much as the rest of the 3x XM-L lights.

If you look at the spreadsheet, you'll see that this Dry is $250 cheaper than any other 3x 18650 side-by-side triple XM-L, at the moment at least.  Pocketability isn't an issue for some people but it is for me, so the Dry is currently my only choice.

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I do not think that the ability of having 3x 18650 side by side justifies the price of those flashlights neither the DRY's. Technically it's nothing special, and with nothing more complex than a 3 x 18650 end-to-end.

What improvements could be brought to the DRY right now :

 

1. Serious Driver

2. Serious battery holder

 

What else could it be? Another front glass lens, AR coated, and some sort of knurling, my hands sweat on this body and it slips off my hand.

 

2100
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I have already reported pretty long ago what the 4-mode can/cannot do with measurements etc....  No big surprises bros...   LOL!

 

Something like NW 4-mode is 168 lux vs SR3800 160.... and since it's not current regulated it slips.  I also did mention countless times that the DD version also slips, so after it drops till about 3.9V when the triple 18650s starts to rock and roll on the plateau, it is in the 3 plus amps region maybe still close to 4A, so ready to rock and roll in cool winter countries.  Tested with ice somemore etc....

 

Anyway those who are interested in a cool similar product can try the Jetbeam RRT- triple XM-L, its usd275 from HKE shipped, good for international customers. Not as discounted as the TK70, nevertheless just pop 3 x 18650 inside and off you go.  Guarantee, no PWM and many many modes for you to try on the nice ring.  Big Smile

  

BTW, the TK70 can use the Kaidomain's 32600s. No issue, tested like 4 hours in Turbo (but split into like 10-15 min runs).  Also stress tested it On and Off many times. The driver can take it, and like many others suspected, the drivers are the same as TK70S...... just that they give you an additional TK50 tube.  If you are still skeptical, just try the $20/pr Ultrafire LiFePO4 32600s.  So that's another option.

The TK70 does about 220 lux ceiling reflected, and DRY about 245-250 lux.  Cool countries would be even higher, i tested with ice (freezing point) and it was 290.  I'll try to get the UCL lens figures for you guys soon..... (busy with testing the TK70 with Li-ion)

 

 BTW, throw for CW 3-mode is about 400 for 8.17m = 26k.  It outthrows my UF-980L at 19k measured on the same meter.

 

Just took 3 weddings in 3 consecutive days....recovering. This morning's wedding started at 4am, and just ended at 4.30pm.  LOL!  Zzzzz.... 

 

2100
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Seriously if you ask me to try the Sky Ray lottery or paying more for the DRYs, i'd choose the latter. 

Seriously there are absolutely none NW/WW triple XM-Ls.  If you can DIY and afford the time to R&D + CNC a 3 x 18650 side by side, then you are good and more power to ya......  I'll say it in a bad way even as an end-consumer, no seller in a right frame of mind would sell the DRY at $45 because it is "nothing technically special".  Remember, you can only get the DRY NW now at a higher price at SB plus international shipping via USPS First Class .  Maybe we shall wait for the next emitter....

Remember, you have support, plus the driver is just a meagre 5 bucks to buy.  I couldn't even get MF to send me a SR3800 driver (LOL!), i just hooked it up to a 13.6V open circuit full charged SLA and let her rip with DRY ICE.   (Later then "R&D" and DD it with 3 x 18650, because the SLA did blow the LEDs twice well it just glowed a wee bit like 5 lumens, and twice i just knocked it hard and it came back on. Welcome to Sky Ray lottery, some spent $110 and never got a good flashlight, third time might be lucky and you finally get a working 1600L OTF light for $160+ gone, might as well just spend it on a TK70 2200L ANSI OTF in the first place)

 

Since this is truly budgetlights forum, I shall think of it this way for you budgetholics.....

SR3800 is $52 and is playing roulette plus more or less it would flame out. Driver support is nil (forget about the TF 3T6 driver, read my comments on the SR3800 review thread).  160 lux vs DRY's 250.  160/250 = 0.64.   $52/0.64 = $81 if you wanna reach DRY's CW 3-mode output.  Seriously I don't see any problemo....  But please, do not gun the light for very long in "turbo DD", there is nothing "long runtime" about the DRY in DD.  Ric very open about this and is specifically noted in the website.  This is probably a bit better in heat levels between this and a Uniquefire UF-2100.  (that one heats up really fast due to little mass for heatsinking)....

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2100 wrote:

Seriously if you ask me to try the Sky Ray lottery or paying more for the DRYs, i'd choose the latter. 

 

I thought this too after my Sky Ray 818 disaster.. But well.. My Dry came DOA.. 2 loose solder points and a "nonworking isolator" on top... after fixing, its working fine.. Seems all chinese lamps are lottery with no exception :/ But better crap assembly what I can fix, than a crap driver that dies early...

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2100 wrote:

I have already reported pretty long ago what the 4-mode can/cannot do with measurements etc....  No big surprises bros...   LOL!

Just took 3 weddings in 3 consecutive days....recovering. This morning's wedding started at 4am, and just ended at 4.30pm.  LOL!  Zzzzz.... 

True, but it's useful to see DrJones' test results showing how the driver works, and showing that on High, the 4-mode is run at 50% duty cycle, and that on all modes, the LEDs are driven at 4A, which is inefficient.  Those are all minuses, but there's not yet any competition with a similar form factor and price.  BTW, DrJones, did you use a scope to do your measurements?  I just bought a $50 DMM a few days ago, but I was considering a handheld scopemeter until I saw the prices.

Poor you, 2100.  I photographed exactly two weddings before I gave up because of the stress.

Hikelite wrote:

I do not think that the ability of having 3x 18650 side by side justifies the price of those flashlights neither the DRY's. Technically it's nothing special, and with nothing more complex than a 3 x 18650 end-to-end.

What improvements could be brought to the DRY right now :

1. Serious Driver

2. Serious battery holder

HikeLite, you're probably right that the price is too high for the technology used in the light, but there's not much competition yet with that form factor.  What I told myself is that I used to spend $60-70 on little Fenix lights with < 200 lm.  If I can spend $85 (+shipping) on 1500 lm or more, that's a good deal to me anyway.  And it's still pocketable.

Totally agree with you on your recommended improvements.

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@peteybaby: Yes, used a handheld scope Smile

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Does anyone know what the LED current is on High? (not the battery current)

There's a thread on CPF about overdriving XM-Ls but the thread is one of those ones that was lost in the big database snafu and the restored version of the thread is hard to read.  I'm curious to know how much benefit there is to driving XM-Ls beyond 3 A, if indeed the Dry pushes the LED beyond 3 A (with the 3 mode and 5 mode drivers).  According to my rough calculation/estimate in another Dry-related thread, it should be pushing the LEDs at around 4 A.

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peteybaby wrote:

 

There's a thread on CPF about overdriving XM-Ls but the thread is one of those ones that was lost in the big database snafu and the restored version of the thread is hard to read.  I'm curious to know how much benefit there is to driving XM-Ls beyond 3 A, if indeed the Dry pushes the LED beyond 3 A (with the 3 mode and 5 mode drivers).  According to my rough calculation/estimate in another Dry-related thread, it should be pushing the LEDs at around 4 A.

Here's a thread started by Match that has some useful graphs. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/2603

2100
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DasEtwas wrote:
I thought this too after my Sky Ray 818 disaster.. But well.. My Dry came DOA.. 2 loose solder points and a "nonworking isolator" on top... after fixing, its working fine.. Seems all chinese lamps are lottery with no exception :/ But better crap assembly what I can fix, than a crap driver that dies early...

My first WW got a sort of semi faulty driver, it was stuck on high and could not change modes. I was sent a replacement, swapped out the thing (just a matter of splicing + / -) and ok.   Another possible mode of failure is the switch and you sure can order additional switches. I mean nothing lasts forever, not even the high priced brands except maybe Elzetta.   Big Smile

 

Petebaby, as I've tested, there is only advantage to driving above 3A if you can properly cool the light in cold temps.  This is a very simple/repeatable experiment.  Just get 2 ice cubes and the lux rises insteads of falls, it is supposed to be slowly falling due to heat soak plus cell voltage drop (it drops very fast from 4.2-3.95V, check out the battery discharge graphs for the reason why). Warm temps like in my country yields nothing.  However, you have need to remember the important point that this is not current regulated, like quite a number of single cell budget light.  Why isn't this DRY regulated (buck and boost and whatever, it's at that particular point), if you ask me i seriously don't know, and seriously by gut feeling i would not want it to be current regulated due to the stresses involved.

I have mentioned many times this phenomenon in the DRY thread which i posted, all the info is there.  Also mentioned there that since you are in Vancouver, Cananda, you are really good to go.  I probably can't even get my room air-conditioning to a temperature below a hot summer's nite at your location!

 

Anyway i charged up the cells, yeah in a reflected ceiling bounce i could get ~ that 5.5% increase in output with the UCL. (I measured the DRY with UCL direct hotspot intensity in low mode, and then put the original DRY lens in front and got 5.5% drop).  Previously it was like 245-250 stable reflected ceiling bounce. Now it is ~ 260.   5.5% cut is not bad....some lights like the OTR X5 I have measured more than 15% drop.

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fnsooner wrote:

Here's a thread started by Match that has some useful graphs. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/2603

Thanks, fnsooner.

2100 wrote:

I have mentioned many times this phenomenon in the DRY thread which i posted, all the info is there.

Yes thank you 2100 for all your testing over the past few weeks, it was really helpful to me and others, I know.  I did remember that your testing showed that there is a benefit to driving beyond 3 A, but I also remember a thread about some 1*XM-L light, where people were discussing whether it was possible to be seeing more output beyond 3 A, and I don't remember the conclusion.  I remember some people were convinced that there were no gains to be had beyond 3 A, and others were equally convinced (with their eyes) that there were gains.  I think your testing, plus Match's testing, show that there are gains to be had, if adequate cooling is available.

The reason I'm asking this question is that DrJones found that the Dry is pulling 4 A peak in all modes (DrJones was it a fairly clean rectangular wave?), and I was curious to know if 4 A produced more output than 3.5 A or 3 A peak.  4 A peak is definitely less efficient (less lumens per A), but I personally don't mind if the light isn't absolutely the highest efficiency possible in the lower modes--I can live with shorter run-times and more heat as long as the light can dissipate that heat okay, as I believe the Dry can do (except in DD at 4 A).  And then on High (or Turbo), which is DD, there's no efficiency problem because it's DD (no PWM)... I mean, there isn't a more-efficient drive method available like there is with the lower modes.  I guess I can conclude that there is performance to be gained by driving at 4 A.  Good.

It also didn't occur to me before that with the 3-mode and 5-mode drivers, if the highest mode is DD, then the battery current measurement equals the LED current.  So yes, this light does push > 3 A through the LEDs.  Sorry if I'm repeating stuff that has already been written, but info is kind of spread out over a bunch of threads and I have a bad memory.

2100
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You have to remember that Match has a 10lb block of alu under the star, yes.  But you need to remember that it doesn't matter even if he has 1000lbs, as a mere 0.1lb of aluminum would be better if you place that combo out in Northen Vancouver (think you said your place is elevated in the mountains) at -5 deg C with 10kph wind. It is still relatively inefficient, but there will be gains.  For what i used, i managed to gain 14% from the DRY with active cooling....ala "not too bad for flashaholics for a fun light".  You do use such stuff outside, anything > 2000 lumens is just for WOW inside the house.  

Of course I believe Vancouver i mean British Columbia is one of the hottest states in Canada.  There are quite some folks here in Russia, Harbin, Sweden/Finland etc...  Even Belgium does 0 deg C in the night, and sometimes i guess even sub zero.

Match's testing date : 29th May. Location :  South Carolina USA.

PS. I'll try to do some video testing.

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DrJones wrote:

Included are a spare clicky and spare o-ring, a GITD tailcap to exchange with the default black one, and a nice lanyard.

 

I didn't receive any of this ... i ordered from sbflashlights, sent them a mail right away... Because if CNQ sends the lights out with these items to them, I should get them...

And for what i can say now (couldn't test the light yet) i totally agree about the cheap looking battery holder which i'm waiting for to be replaced. Will update the driver but only if strobe comes after turbo.

 

UPDATE: these items weren't shipped to sbflashlight, Ric from CNQ will send them to me when I order a new driver

 

 
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Anyone has a picture of a (flash)light which accurately shows the tint of the NW DRY? Ric sent me my replacement carrier today so i'll probably have to wait another 2 weeks until i can fire my DRY up Sad

 

 
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SA, check this post, http://budgetlightforum.com/node/3592?page=2#comment-63517

There's a lot of info on this forum.

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Yes i know about that thread but 2100 told me that in the comparison the neutral white is represented too warm and i really hope it is Silly

 

 
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scheven_architect wrote:

Yes i know about that thread but 2100 told me that in the comparison the neutral white is represented too warm and i really hope it is Silly

On my monitor it doesn't look too warm. Or maybe that's how I feel about it.

 

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Hikelite wrote:

There's the possibility that this host has been used for a Triple Q5. http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=10849356995&ad_id=&am_id=&cm_id=&pm_id=

 

As I have suspected.

 

Demensions:

Length:153mm

Diameter:58*46mm

Weight:450g

Package:Neutral packing/white box.

 

http://brinyte.en.alibaba.com/product/458443109-210108719/Brinyte_High_P...

 

 

An even other variants with 5 LEDs

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