Will the 21-70 Battery (a.k.a. 21700) Replace 18650?

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Texas_Ace
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The 48g is not a high discharge cell, think of it as a larger GA instead. Not the highest output but long battery life. Perfect for most real world use lights.

Jensen567
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I bought 2 of the 48G, they both test slightly over the 4.8Ah at 4.2A rate. Yeah, it won’t push the highest current, but it will be able to run a light at a very good sustainable brightness for a long time.

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Jensen567 wrote:
I bought 2 of the 48G, they both test slightly over the 4.8Ah at 4.2A rate. Yeah, it won’t push the highest current, but it will be able to run a light at a very good sustainable brightness for a long time.

This is what I have found to be the most important to me as time moves on. For most lights more then ~5A a cell just means it overheats faster. My EDC triple generally doesn’t get more then 2.5A. I only kick it up to turbo and 10A for short bursts (GA cell).

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Texas_Ace wrote:
Jensen567 wrote:
I bought 2 of the 48G, they both test slightly over the 4.8Ah at 4.2A rate. Yeah, it won’t push the highest current, but it will be able to run a light at a very good sustainable brightness for a long time.

This is what I have found to be the most important to me as time moves on. For most lights more then ~5A a cell just means it overheats faster. My EDC triple generally doesn’t get more then 2.5A. I only kick it up to turbo and 10A for short bursts (GA cell).


Yep I can dig it T/A just built a Trustfire T90-2 3S-32650’s to a 70.2 at 10amps in Turbo with the massive heat sink and the 6000mAh batteries it should run for a very long time! Just got to do a little more work on the HX-1175b1 driver, so far so good!

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Jensen567
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I agree, super high turbo is a fun toy but I generally use 1000 lumens or less 98% of the time, so longer runtime is exciting for me. Most of my stuff is fairly close up though, so of course different use cases have different requirements.

The main issue with 21700 now that the cells are becoming available, is actually finding a host or light made for them. Hopefully the manufacturers start making some compatible stuff soon.

In the meantime I’m going to try to build my own. Should have a bit more time to play with that coming up. Planning on making a quad tube light, sort of like a scaled up E2-L.

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KawiBoy1428 wrote:
IMR has the Samsung 21700’s https://www.imrbatteries.com/samsung-48g-21700-4800mah-flat-top-battery/...

Fasttech has them also. The cell itself is a tiny bit more expensive, but the shipping cost to NL is not so draconic.
Recently reamed a Warsun tube to 21.4mm, so I ordered a 48G just for fun. Let’s wait and see.

You are a flashaholic if you are forced to come out of the closet, to make room for more flashlights.

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The iJoys KawiBoy1428 mentioned turned out quite good I'd say: iJoy 40A 3750mAh 21700...hugely overrated but better than NCR20700B

The NCR20700B yielded ≈3850mAh at 10A, so those china made iJoys look really nice with their 3650mAh at the same current while delivering a maximum of 24A continuous (Mooch's capacity measurements are a little bit lower than HKJ's ones due to slight probe voltage drop; you can see this comparing their Samsung 30T discharge graphs, for example). 

Who makes 'em? YDL (Aspire 18350s)?

 

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So how close are these to decent 26650s?

Eg, I got some LK 26650s for my 26650 lights, and even though they’re (LKs) great, they (26650s in general) don’t have the same capacity/current/etc. per unit volume as 18650s.

I’m just thinking… if they push 20s and 21s with the same caps as 18s, the 20s/21s could easily surpass even 26es.

Ironic… use a physically smaller cell for more capacity and current.

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KawiBoy1428 wrote:
Got these 21700’s last week…

https://www.imrbatteries.com/ijoy-21700-3750mah-flat-top-battery/

That’s kinda my point… Big Smile

3750mAH for the 21s, 4200mAH for the 26es. Fairly little increase in capacity for a huge increase in volume. Or put the other way, a nice savings in size/weight, for only a small penalty hit as far as capacity.

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26650s haven't seen the same level of development. After all, who makes 'em? The PLB 50/55As and similar cells are geared for big electric vehicles (buses and such).

The iJoy 26650 still gives out 4050+mAh at its max continuous rating, 30A.

What if we divide in half the 26650 ratings (≈18650 volume)? Underdeveloped cells. If A123 systems or any other get your sh1t right player would have invested in a good high current 26650 li-ion, things would be different, waay different.

 

Posted originally on Sat, 09/16/2017 - 19:06; little typo fixup.

Please avoid fully quoting lenghty posts, namely with nested quotes. Trim quotes down to the essential. Helps with neatness and legibility. Thanks.

The human mind, and its programming, is at the forefront of a particular battle of The Light vs evil dark forces. Nearly every human being on this beautiful planet “Earth” has some sort of negative mind programming in its mind. And you better take care of your mind programming, or someone else will in this wicked world.

Viruses DON'T cause diseases, they rather are a consequence of them. Read the book “Béchamp or Pasteur” by Ethel Hume for more information.

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Lightbringer wrote:

That’s kinda my point… Big Smile

3750mAH for the 21s, 4200mAH for the 26es. Fairly little increase in capacity for a huge increase in volume. Or put the other way, a nice savings in size/weight, for only a small penalty hit as far as capacity.


Those are far from the best 26650s though…

The shockli ones are like 5600mAh+ and can do plenty of amps.

Lightbringer
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Enderman wrote:
Those are far from the best 26650s though…

The shockli ones are like 5600mAh+ and can do plenty of amps.

Mmmm, so they’re at least putting some effort into it.

I’m just wondering why, say, Panasonic wouldn’t apply the same tek to 26650s as they do to 18650s. Then we’d have 26es with assloads of capacity at modest current, or current hawgs at modest capacity. Either way, we’d win.

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Lightbringer][quote=Enderman wrote:
I’m just wondering why, say, Panasonic wouldn’t apply the same tek to 26650s as they do to 18650s. Then we’d have 26es with assloads of capacity at modest current, or current hawgs at modest capacity. Either way, we’d win.

It basically depends on the number of customers and how many batteries they order. A “few” vapers do not really make a good excuse for updating the technology, the money are in electric cars.

My website with reviews of many chargers and batteries (More than 1000): https://lygte-info.dk/

degarb
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We know the EV market is where the money is, hoping trickeldown or pioneering exploratory tests by the flashlight community with technical backgrounds.

But I never considered how deep the retarding impact that the military and their needs may play in development of new battery technology. For example, i have seen $40 single use lithium sulphur batteries online. The military has deep pockets, life or death needs, and could hog emerging companies’ resources, slowing adoption into needed consumer products. Likely, the public might get the scraps.

Example, keep eye on Sion Power’s Liceron tech.

If i don’t post again, I may be correct. Better to discredit me, as this might discourage North Korea from getting their hands on the next lithium air tech.

We know bike lighting is life or death, thus $1500 headlamps. $6000 search and rescue lights. Our credibility problem may be in our unwillingness to wipe out that next village. And so, the protected 18650b liion may stick around — despite our vaping battery-brothers suicidal path of addiction and subtle second hand genecidal tendencies.

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Texas_Ace
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degarb wrote:
We know the EV market is where the money is, hoping trickeldown or pioneering exploratory tests by the flashlight community with technical backgrounds.

But I never considered how deep the retarding impact that the military and their needs may play in development of new battery technology. For example, i have seen $40 single use lithium sulphur batteries online. The military has deep pockets, life or death needs, and could hog emerging companies’ resources, slowing adoption into needed consumer products. Likely, the public might get the scraps.

Example, keep eye on Sion Power’s Liceron tech.

If i don’t post again, I may be correct. Better to discredit me, as this might discourage North Korea from getting their hands on the next lithium air tech.

We know bike lighting is life or death, thus $1500 headlamps. $6000 search and rescue lights. Our credibility problem may be in our unwillingness to wipe out that next village. And so, the protected 18650b liion may stick around — despite our vaping battery-brothers suicidal path of addiction and subtle second hand genecidal tendencies.

I only know this as english because I recognize all the words.

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Texas_Ace wrote:

I only know this as english because I recognize all the words.

Ditto!

I can explain why this went over your head:you aren’t affected every day by supply and demand, as I am. I seriously am amazed at how seemingly intelligent, successful people do not grasp the reality of supply and demand. If you don’t, the implication gies over your head. Anytime, anytime demand is raised without furiously pumping up supply, the price goes up. Supply cannot quickly go up for an emerging technology of the next generation safer (under gunfire) and higher energy dense batteries. I see two believable techs. Probably, the rest are hype. I also see incredible military applications, who probably will pay many fold more than the EV market, at least in the short term. This will keep the current tech alive a bit longer in the consumer field. So, imr 21700 will have time for a foothold before something 2x or 3x more energy dense emerges. Supply limited on new tech, military dollar demand is probably larger than one would imagine. Sion’s website already hints at this.

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degarb
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KawiBoy1428 wrote:
Oh noooo more 21700’s Fodder Facepalm

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Sam-sung-3000mah-40A-3-7V_6066868...

Not very energy dense, but cheap. More “bang” for your buck. I wonder if knock offs at that mah.

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Uhm.. It’s 40 Amperes.
That’s a LOT of current.

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degarb wrote:
KawiBoy1428 wrote:
Oh noooo more 21700’s Fodder Facepalm

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Sam-sung-3000mah-40A-3-7V_6066868...

Not very energy dense, but cheap. More “bang” for your buck. I wonder if knock offs at that mah.


Not looking for density, just the release of energy! Specially in triple and quads.

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There are already a few tests out there of the 30T, they are very much my most anticipated cell at the moment.

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Please avoid fully quoting lenghty posts, namely with nested quotes. Trim quotes down to the essential. Helps with neatness and legibility. Thanks.

The human mind, and its programming, is at the forefront of a particular battle of The Light vs evil dark forces. Nearly every human being on this beautiful planet “Earth” has some sort of negative mind programming in its mind. And you better take care of your mind programming, or someone else will in this wicked world.

Viruses DON'T cause diseases, they rather are a consequence of them. Read the book “Béchamp or Pasteur” by Ethel Hume for more information.

scianiac
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Huh, how did you get that link to work? Just kept giving me 404 in spite of the spaces being escaped with %20

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scianiac wrote:
Huh, how did you get that link to work? Just kept giving me 404 in spite of the spaces being escaped with %20

Try http://tinyurl.com/ybeqt8da instead.

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scianiac
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Yeah but Barkuti’s link works with no shortener, he must know something we don’t. Silly

Back on topic it would seem that the 21700 and 20700 size cell may replace the 18650 for high discharge applications, more and more companies seem to be getting on board and the cells that are coming out are pretty impressive. I still want to see Sony come out with a 21700 high discharge cell, so far they have been the leader in performance with the VTC5A so a 21700 sized cell with that tech would be quite a thing. Although maybe I’m just the crazy person who wants to build more and more extreme hand warmers that happen to also emit light and cells like the 48G will be more popular to make longer runtime lights.

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He uses embedded HTML. Use quote on his post and you’ll see.

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Agro wrote:
He uses embedded HTML. Use quote on his post and you’ll see.

That’s what I did with tinyurl. The url is in plaintext, but is also the href value.

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Agro wrote:
He uses embedded HTML. Use quote on his post and you’ll see.

It’s called the “advanced post editor” in the options at the bottom.
scianiac
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Now I vaguely recall seeing the embedded HTML options in the advanced editor but that didn’t occur to me at the time, makes sense now.

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