Do we need a flashlight (parts) store in the EU?

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Zelda
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Some larger shop’s have an Incoterms 2010 term who include custom dutys. (The buyer don’t pay any custom duties!)
like reichelt, rs online (for business)

Lexel
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If you need just small stuff you could get it shipped to me and I send it from Germany to you
1.5€ below 50g and 10mm

3.2€ 500g for combining thicker and more heavy stuff like multible orders of small lights

FPV
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Flashy Mike wrote:
But since this modded lights are often hot rods you have a higher risk to be made liable for damages which can get very expensive.

Yes, you are right. A high-performing flashlight product would need a variety of disclaimers and some form of liability exclusion, if at all possible. Just imagine you’d sell a FET triple or quad and some child gets to play with and leaves it in the trash can while switched on high…
yasenf
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ZoomieFan wrote:
Perhaps the Chinese sellers will open warehouses in the EU. (they already have in the USA). I’m sure the Chinese will do something because if they don’t it’s end of sales to the Europian market.

They already have – both Banggood and Gearbest. They keep there quite limited assortment (compared to China mother store) and the prices are noticably higher. Plus shipping is quite steep. On top they only keep the stock duty free, i.e. if you order from there, the envelope comes with big yellow sticker, that VAT is not collected, so chances are if you have problems with chinese deliveries, to have similar problems with EU warehouse.

So if you draw the line, you pay more than ordrers from China, do not have warranty and VAT paid, only advantage would be (slightly) faster shipping. If they start competenig with legitimate businesses, they won’t have the price advantage.

mustig
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Time to find new hobbies, I guess, since this kills both flashlights and anything with microcontrollers.

Lowtech
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HKJ wrote:
mortuus wrote:
Yea i read that, totally lost interest after that will be in effect.. even small stuff for a dollar or two u will have to pay fees five times more the value, total nonsense….

If you look at Trump behavior it is reasonable: Do anything you can to protect your country from “cheap” labor in other countries.
The problem with that attitude is that a lot of the welfare today is based on cheap labor or just production in other countries.

Yea no not at all they just want tax money that they feel they are missing out on.

If it realy was about jobs then they would look at transports and construction.. 99% is from some none english speaking contry.

MascaratumB
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mustig wrote:
Time to find new hobbies, I guess, since this kills both flashlights and anything with microcontrollers.

Hum, the question is if we can afford other hobbies without ordering from China where the components and final products are much cheaper than in Europe Facepalm

I ordered once from NKON, 3 Sanyo 18650 with top button. The batteries costed 13€, the shipment costed 14€! And it took almost 2 weeks from Netherlands to Portugal.
For the same price I can buy 8 (at least) 18650 from BG or GB with some coupon.

The thing is, not all the big sellers have the possibility to have wharehouses in Europe (Fasttech, AliExpress stores, Intl-Outdoor, and many others), even if we buy from them a lot.

Despite I know there number of importations from abroad is getting bigger everyday, can the European market apply such laws to refrain those numbers? My country – as many other EU countries – has opened itself for the Chinese market and investors; will they close the “gates” again and cease these agreements? Flat Stare Not sure about that…
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About the idea of a European store with flashlights and parts, I guess it is a brilliant and – eventually – necessary idea. At least for parts, such as drivers and other components (in my case).
But, I don’t know if the business volume will flow without being associated to some brands / sellers / wharehouses…

Let’s see! Thanks for opening the discussion Thumbs Up

Agro
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Gearbest already has a warehouse in EU.
They keep most of their labour costs in China and cover logistics + taxes here.
From Poland I can ship the cheapest package for €1.2 worldwide. 500g is €2.67 within Europe and €2.75 worldwide.

luminarium iaculator
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Lexel wrote:
If you need just small stuff you could get it shipped to me and I send it from Germany to you
1.5€ below 50g and 10mm

3.2€ 500g for combining thicker and more heavy stuff like multible orders of small lights

Agro wrote:
Gearbest already has a warehouse in EU. They keep most of their labour costs in China and cover logistics + taxes here. From Poland I can ship the cheapest package for €1.2 worldwide. 500g is €2.67 within Europe and €2.75 worldwide.

Lexel and Agro,

There are Customs limits so for example one can’t order lets say 3 flashlights that costs over 100 euro. Right?

Lexel
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I had so far most flashlight stuff coming through customs as they are declared below 22€

But best is to order one at a time, then i can pack multiple items and send within europe

of course bigger stuff than 500g needs a small package
10×20×20cm up to 25kg is 9.75€ tracking 500€ insured

on all those shops I had well over 100 orders last year, I payed 3 times customs 19% as it was bigger stuff with higher value declared

FPV
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My friend and I ran a London based ebay store in the 2000s and we split up low value payment international ebay orders and re-shipped them from DE, NL, UK for a profit. German tax agents from Frankfurt send us a nice letter stating they will from now on combine some of our German packages due to the number of shipments and the “commercial appearance” of our operation. However, they also clarified that there potentially more efficient ways of taxation available for businesses.

Apparently European customs agencies run software that analyzes the shipping addresses (names/companies) and, if a specific frequency is triggered, several separate shipments can be combined and “taxed as one”.

I don’t think the tax agents actually believe that 99% of my shipments have “electronic components” worth 1.00$ as declared Big Smile

Lexel
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lately I had a flashlight over DHL Express labeled 1$ review sample no commercial value, no tax

ISO
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Agree sad day if they start with declaratiom fee and VAT om every package in Sweden. It would kill most of the small private import from outside Europe.

Andrew_Debbie
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ZoomieFan wrote:
Perhaps the Chinese sellers will open warehouses in the EU. (they already have in the USA). I’m sure the Chinese will do something because if they don’t it’s end of sales to the Europian market.

They have already done that….

For example:

Fulfilled by Amazon

https://eu.banggood.com

Gearbest EU5

Lowtech
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ISO wrote:
Agree sad day if they start with declaratiom fee and VAT om every package in Sweden. It would kill most of the small private import from outside Europe.

Well the good newd is that you could use DHL for everything since they “only” charge 100kr+tax… and it might be worth it since they are talking about even longer handling times now.

ZoomieFan
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yasenf wrote:
ZoomieFan wrote:
Perhaps the Chinese sellers will open warehouses in the EU. (they already have in the USA). I’m sure the Chinese will do something because if they don’t it’s end of sales to the Europian market.

They already have – both Banggood and Gearbest. They keep there quite limited assortment (compared to China mother store) and the prices are noticably higher. Plus shipping is quite steep. On top they only keep the stock duty free,.


The stuff from China is only duty free below e20 where I live. Then I pay 21% tax + 15 handling fee.
The Chinese seem to know that so just write a low price on the package.
Today I received something with a value of $25 but on the package is $6.76

Chargers: 1xBasen BD01 5/5, 1x Gyrfalcon All-88 4/5, LiitoKala: 3x100 3/5, 2x202 3/5, 1x402 3/5., MiBoxer C4-12 3/5.
Flashlights: DQG Tiny III 26650 5/5, FiTorch MR35 3/5, Haikelite SC26 HD 3/5, Lumintop Tool AA/AAA 4/5, Nitecore LA10, Sofirn C01 BLF 3200k/5600k 2/5, Zebralight H600Fc 3/5.
Powerbanks: EasyAcc 26800 mAh 3/5, Xtar PB2 4/5, Xtar PB2S 5/5
Waiting for: (DQG Tiny) 21700 EDCs.

ZoomieFan
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MascaratumB wrote:

I ordered once from NKON, 3 Sanyo 18650 with top button. The batteries costed 13€, the shipment costed 14€! And it took almost 2 weeks from Netherlands to Portugal.:
Their price level varies a lot. Sometimes expensive but quite often good. Sanyo button top is now 5.49

Chargers: 1xBasen BD01 5/5, 1x Gyrfalcon All-88 4/5, LiitoKala: 3x100 3/5, 2x202 3/5, 1x402 3/5., MiBoxer C4-12 3/5.
Flashlights: DQG Tiny III 26650 5/5, FiTorch MR35 3/5, Haikelite SC26 HD 3/5, Lumintop Tool AA/AAA 4/5, Nitecore LA10, Sofirn C01 BLF 3200k/5600k 2/5, Zebralight H600Fc 3/5.
Powerbanks: EasyAcc 26800 mAh 3/5, Xtar PB2 4/5, Xtar PB2S 5/5
Waiting for: (DQG Tiny) 21700 EDCs.

MascaratumB
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ZoomieFan wrote:
MascaratumB wrote:
I ordered once from NKON, 3 Sanyo 18650 with top button. The batteries costed 13€, the shipment costed 14€! And it took almost 2 weeks from Netherlands to Portugal.:
Their price level varies a lot. Sometimes expensive but quite often good. Sanyo button top is now 5.49

Yup, but the price I question here is the shipping one. The batteries, by that time were cheaper (less than 5€) but the shipping costs is “too” high. More: I ordered a package from MTN last month and the shipment was even cheaper than from NKON Flat Stare (Despite I had to pay more 27€ because of Customs… Facepalm )

These are some of the reasons why it is “better” to order from China, despite the time it takes to arrive, most of the times.
Having something in Europe that could deliver good flashlights/flashlight parts at good prices would be awesome, but I guess the european market may be very picky… Oops

Jerommel
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I think it’s silly there isn’t already an EU flashlight (and related) parts store.
Would be great to be able to order small quantities of LEDs, drivers and what not.
The same store could also sell vape stuff, or RC stuff, you name it.
I guess when importing from China will be made unattractive, someone will get the brilliant idea to set up a webshop.

FPV
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Funny that you mention RC and vaping – two areas of consumers products that actually have really good (and many) webshops in Europe, in pretty much all key regions/countries.

I am not sure whether there will ever be as many people in need of a good flashlight (or parts) compared to smokers or RC folks. I could be wrong, but all my RC events are packed with people from all ages, genders, families and backgrounds. Same for vaping – I don’t smoke but all my friends who do say there are even vape bars or cafes where you can hang out? they sell ejuice, parts, atomizers, coils, ..

I guess these are just two industries that are much bigger than people who need a MCPCB, wires or a new LED every other month?

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That’s a pretty huge import fee. Some ideas off the top of my head:

  • Have your parcels delivered to someone else in another EU country without the import fee. Then have that friend forward them to you.
  • Is this fee only for parcels through your postal service? What about using a private carrier like Fedex or UPS?
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FPV wrote:
Funny that you mention RC and vaping – two areas of consumers products that actually have really good (and many) webshops in Europe, in pretty much all key regions/countries.

I am not sure whether there will ever be as many people in need of a good flashlight (or parts) compared to smokers or RC folks. I could be wrong, but all my RC events are packed with people from all ages, genders, families and backgrounds. Same for vaping – I don’t smoke but all my friends who do say there are even vape bars or cafes where you can hang out? they sell ejuice, parts, atomizers, coils, ..

I guess these are just two industries that are much bigger than people who need a MCPCB, wires or a new LED every other month?


Yeah, i guess so..
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This is sad news indeed. Sad

I feel lucky being in France when i read all the other sad stories regarding batteries import restrictions in many places. So far we can pretty much import anything without questions… Not sure how much is allowed before being subjected to taxes but it used to be around 100 euro – i’m usually well below on my chinese orders.

That said, i recently sent my MF-01 head to Lexel in Germany and it cost me more then 12 euro for 350g. When he sent it back to me it was only 3.60…!!!

Just inside France, the least you can expect to pay for shipping is 5-6 euro, and it may well go over 10 if the item size is above some dimension. I’m always puzzled when i place a $1-$2 order on AE and find it in my mail box 10-15 days later. This is certainly unfair to any business in EU. But then Amazon and a couple other stores adopted a “free shipping” policy regardless of the order. I can buy a single 8 euro book and receive it a couple days later no shipping fees.

There are a lot of things i don’t really get about postal services and the costs of shipping across borders or continents… Facepalm

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I wanna revive this thread, to vent…

In the last weeks, eventually months, I’ve started to get annoyed with one thing: lack of drivers to mod my lights.

Lexel has been out of business for a while (I hope he is better and recoverning!!!), and he used to be my main “supplier” of drivers to mod my lights, be it in 17mm, 15mm or in diameters. The drivers with Bistro HD OTSM and even drivers with Anduril are what I wanted, needed the most, as they are my favourite UIs.

led4power has also been “out of business” (although he hopefully will return soon and with more novelties and good stuff for us), but that makes it another gap as for getting good stuff to mod lights. The options are somehow limited to 17mm drivers, but they are good. And the leds available are pretty neat too!

Being LEDs and drivers what I/we need the most (not forgetting the other pieces as spacers, but kiriba-ru is still around), what options do we have in EU/Europe? Few to none, I guess! At least with theirs quality and reliability.

Buying from the USA (MTN) is quite expensive due to shipping and customs fees, although they have a variety of choice (specially different UIs in the drivers)
Buying drivers from China is somehow limited to what they offer (although Convoy and Kaidomain have good stuff, as Intl-Outdoor).

But I feel we are somehow limited in terms of options here in the old continent…

I wish I had the know how to make stuff, but that ain’t gonna happen… Facepalm

This is not a solution, just a vent… Tired

luminarium iaculator
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Led4Power is not “out of business”… He is doing some serious large orders for larger costumers…

I also currently have small order of 500 drivers from him and that is even not comparable to his larger orders… My order are peanuts…

So when you are occupied with some serious business you really don’t have much time for small business… But I am pretty sure L4P will find a way and time for small business in Europe.

It is just a matter of time…

MascaratumB
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luminarium iaculator wrote:
Led4Power is not “out of business”… He is doing some serious large orders for larger costumers…

I also currently have small order of 500 drivers from him and that is even not comparable to his larger orders… My order are peanuts…

So when you are occupied with some serious business you really don’t have much time for small business… But I am pretty sure L4P will find a way and time for small business in Europe.

It is just a matter of time…


Don’t take me wrong, and please don’t misinterpret my words Wink

I know that since last year he’s been working in the store and in other “large orders”, he said it himself . So, I , and the people reading the led4power thread know that he is still in business. And that he’ll be back (the earthquake was also a setback)…

But the thing is: is the store open? No! That is what I am referring to.

I am not a store owner so that I can/need/want to order dozens or hundreds of drivers or leds or whatever.
No, I’m just a hobbyist needin some drivers and leds to mod my modest flashlights. So, I won’t contribute much to the business.

But this thread is probably for that, to emphasize how we lack more options or at least more stable options here in EU/Europe to get good stuff. Even if us, smaller customers, do not generate hundreds of € or $ to maintain a business running Tired Sad me Facepalm

Unheard
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1st of July Germany takes VAT without exemption limit. Means: Paying VAT + VAT handling through DHL. VAT is not the problem, handling cost is (or cost for driving to customs). UK as an inexpensive EU port to China is gone due to Brexit, and LED4Power is down and will only reopen for clearance, if I understood correctly.

We’re screwed.

Smile, you cannot kill them all.

luminarium iaculator
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Not only Germany… All EU countries will pay an additional Customs tax on everything we order outside EU.

Until now we could actually buy something under 20 Euro value without paying tax but things will change now.

But don’t worry. China sellers will find a way like EU warehouses, duty free shipping etc… But price will rise for sure.

Agro
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luminarium iaculator wrote:
Led4Power is not “out of business”… He is doing some serious large orders for larger costumers…

I also currently have small order of 500 drivers from him and that is even not comparable to his larger orders… My order are peanuts…

So when you are occupied with some serious business you really don’t have much time for small business… But I am pretty sure L4P will find a way and time for small business in Europe.

It is just a matter of time…


I’m curious, what kind of customer orders significantly more than 500 driver?
Only a flashlight manufacturer comes to my mind but I haven’t heard of one that would use L4P drivers.
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A flashlight driver is quite close to any other led driver, he may be into non-flashlight lighting business?

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