Dereelight DBS Aspheric throw figures (with new EZ900 0.9mm x 0.9mm WD pure cool white tint 1.5A 3SM pill)

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yavi
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I ordered it the past 17th, so lets see if I get it in about two weeks...

I will let you know how good it is when I check it.

yavi
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I do not know what I will do with it Gorann, if it is good as it is I will leave if not I will probably check with an XR-E or an Osram SSL 80.

yavi
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I don´t find it now, but I think the head used to be in Kaidomain, I have only found the whole flashlight.

http://old.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=1101

 

2100 would be the best one to tell us which lens would work better..

Chicago X
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4Sevens had a couple of heads in their clearance area recently.

http://wardogsmakingithome.org/index.html

War Dogs, Making it Home - Rescue Dogs for Returning Vets

2100
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I know the CL1H v4 and DBS tube are compatible with STL-V6 head.  And Ultrafire U80 and Ultrafire C8 is compatible with STL-V6. You can search in this forum, i posted some pix and another guy also posted his C8/STL-V6 combo.   It is used to get an ultra-short STL-V6. 

However, i am sure you can never get it to work in the DBS head housing because it is slight smaller. Besides the focal length is different.

 

 I read that the head collimates a wee bit better and gets you more lux.  It's  nearly 100k for the current DBS EZ900 aspheric and 120k for the Tiablo A9 modded with a R2 EZ900 (and it is extremely difficult or rather literally impossible as it is glued to the die, you need to screw and lever and knock it out). Stock Tiablo A9 that WAS being sold last year gets you about 90 plus K cd.  Note the word "WAS".

But do note, though the CL1H v4 uses P60 style drop ins, it cannot work with Ultrafire P60s with the external spring and you need to take it out.  So i guess the threading is identical. 

Not sure how are you able to get a Tiablo A9 currently.

Another option is the Lumapower Ultra VX with Turboforce reflector head. Not sure how can you swap in the EZ900 pill as i am not sure how does it work, but it gets 90+ K cd as well with EZ900. Stock is already 70k cd.  Not cheap also.

 

2100
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In short, the DBS aspheric is your best bet, no meddling, gets you into the 100k club for 86 bucks.

I actually paid 79 bucks last time for the EZ1000 pill and "upgraded" to this EZ900 for $23.  Should Cree come up with something else next year, no problem at all.  Dereelight is one of the most stable brands after Fenix and has a history as long as that if i am not grossly wrong, but it is not marketed well.

gcbryan
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[quote=yavi]2100, I feel with an aspheric lens there is a bigger loss than 10%, it is said it can be about a 10% with a common glass, but the thicker it is the more losses you will have.It is your fault, I will end buying the DBS head to play with it, it is difficult to believe with a big hotspot like that you can throw it 600m, I understand it can win the masterpiece pro-1, there is more than one parameter to achieve a greater distance, and in this case, it might be how good the lens is designed in terms of the angle, the lens quality itself etc, but I think on a same lens quality it should always throw further the smaller hotspot it has. Just one more thing, did you have the chance to play with the flydragon MS2010 aspheric to compare?[/quote]

The size of the hotspot doesn't determine how far it throws. The focal length of the lens will affect the hotspot size but not the throw.

2100
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Ok, just digged out some history. Fenix started off in 2005. Dereelight was started in 2007.

yavi
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gcbryan wrote:
yavi wrote:

2100, I feel with an aspheric lens there is a bigger loss than 10%, it is said it can be about a 10% with a common glass, but the thicker it is the more losses you will have.

It is your fault, I will end buying the DBS head to play with it, it is difficult to believe with a big hotspot like that you can throw it 600m, I understand it can win the masterpiece pro-1, there is more than one parameter to achieve a greater distance, and in this case, it might be how good the lens is designed in terms of the angle, the lens quality itself etc, but I think on a same lens quality it should always throw further the smaller hotspot it has.

 

Just one more thing, did you have the chance to play with the flydragon MS2010 aspheric to compare?

The size of the hotspot doesn't determine how far it throws. The focal length of the lens will affect the hotspot size but not the throw. The most unfortunate aspect of throw when you think about it is the inverse square law that determines how quickly light intensity drops off. From an economic point of view it's unfortunate. Consider the cost of a light that throws 25 kcd. You can get that with the right light for $15. To double the throw distance you need 4 times the output or 100 kcd. To get that you have to pay (apparently) $89.

As far as I have been able to find out for myself, the hotspot size is also determined by the lens curvature / thickness and its diameter, so with a lens closer to the die, depending on those two factors you can have smaller or bigger hotspots.

The further you can get the best focused part of the beam, the further it will throw, some lenses make the beam look focused at 1-2m and other ones look defocused on that distances, but focused at 5-6m.

The hotspot size does not determine how far it throws, that is true, but because there are more factors that determine the throw in my opinion, but the smaller it is helps to determine how concentrated the beam is.

gcbryan
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With a smaller focal length the lens will be closer to the emitter and will capture more light and that's why the hotspot is larger. It doesn't throw further however.

With a larger focal length the hotspot is smaller but it's not any brighter so it doesn't throw any further than the smaller focal length.

You can check this out for yourself with a light meter.

When the diameter increases and the hotspot decreases the light does become more intense and it does throw further.

The common mistake is thinking that since the hotspot is smaller with a larger focal length than will a shorter focal length that it must be more focused and therefore brighter but that's not the case.

gcbryan
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[quote=gorann]2 more somewhat interesting lights at kd, singly XML, http://kaidomain.com/Gadget/Dailythat little fellow with large head is nteresting, and at interesting price of 22$, and other 2X18650 with stepless control.  [/quote]

If you end up buying the "little fellow" be sure to post a review :) I think that one is interesting as well.

I think it's a little longer than that first picture would suggest however if you look at the other pictures.

Too bad they don't give any dimensions for the head (or anything else for that matter).

It says twisty but you can see that it's actually a clicky.

The more I look at it however the more I think it may just be another HS-802.

yavi
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gcbryan wrote:
With a smaller focal length the lens will be closer to the emitter and will capture more light and that's why the hotspot is larger. It doesn't throw further however. With a larger focal length the hotspot is smaller but it's not any brighter so it doesn't throw any further than the smaller focal length. You can check this out for yourself with a light meter. When the diameter increases and the hotspot decreases the light does become more intense and it does throw further. The common mistake is thinking that since the hotspot is smaller with a larger focal length than will a shorter focal length that it must be more focused and therefore brighter but that's not the case.

From your answer is difficult to determine (at least to me) what makes a lens to throw further, I understand it is not the focal length, nor the hotspot size, so, what do you think would be the "perfect" lens comparing two lenses on the same diameter?

What is your opinion also regarding the lens curvature?

Till now the little experience I have with them, the one that throws further into the ones I got, is a 38mm acrylic lens, I've got some bigger ones some in glass some acrylic, but that one has the smaller and cleaner hotspot and throws clearly further than the rest I got, being the biggest one 50mm diameter and much thicker.

I like more the flood to throw ones due to their versatility compared to flashlights with a fixed lens.

 

gcbryan
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[quote=yavi][quote=gcbryan]With a smaller focal length the lens will be closer to the emitter and will capture more light and that's why the hotspot is larger. It doesn't throw further however. With a larger focal length the hotspot is smaller but it's not any brighter so it doesn't throw any further than the smaller focal length. You can check this out for yourself with a light meter. When the diameter increases and the hotspot decreases the light does become more intense and it does throw further. The common mistake is thinking that since the hotspot is smaller with a larger focal length than will a shorter focal length that it must be more focused and therefore brighter but that's not the case.[/quote]From your answer is difficult to determine (at least to me) what makes a lens to throw further, I understand it is not the focal length, nor the hotspot size, so, what do you think would be the "perfect" lens comparing two lenses on the same diameter?What is your opinion also regarding the lens curvature?Till now the little experience I have with them, the one that throws further into the ones I got, is a 38mm acrylic lens, I've got some bigger ones some in glass some acrylic, but that one has the smaller and cleaner hotspot and throws clearly further than the rest I got, being the biggest one 50mm diameter and much thicker.I like more the flood to throw ones due to their versatility compared to flashlights with a fixed lens. [/quote]

Two lens with the same diameter, the same emitter, driven with the same current will throw the same. Of course the quality of one lens over another is possible (clearer or with anti-reflective coatings) but that's not likely to be the case in the price range that we are talking about. You could just get a "bad" lens I suppose.

Focal length is what determines the lens curvature. As mentioned more curve with a smaller focal length and it will be closer to the lens and therefore will have a bigger hotspot. The larger focal length will be further away and have a smaller hotspot but both will throw the same.

If you have a 38mm lens that is throwing further than a 50mm lens something else is not the same between those lights. If they have the same emitter driven the same the 50mm should throw 31% further than the 38mm lens.

yavi
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gcbryan wrote:
yavi wrote:

gcbryan wrote:
With a smaller focal length the lens will be closer to the emitter and will capture more light and that's why the hotspot is larger. It doesn't throw further however. With a larger focal length the hotspot is smaller but it's not any brighter so it doesn't throw any further than the smaller focal length. You can check this out for yourself with a light meter. When the diameter increases and the hotspot decreases the light does become more intense and it does throw further. The common mistake is thinking that since the hotspot is smaller with a larger focal length than will a shorter focal length that it must be more focused and therefore brighter but that's not the case.

From your answer is difficult to determine (at least to me) what makes a lens to throw further, I understand it is not the focal length, nor the hotspot size, so, what do you think would be the "perfect" lens comparing two lenses on the same diameter?

What is your opinion also regarding the lens curvature?

Till now the little experience I have with them, the one that throws further into the ones I got, is a 38mm acrylic lens, I've got some bigger ones some in glass some acrylic, but that one has the smaller and cleaner hotspot and throws clearly further than the rest I got, being the biggest one 50mm diameter and much thicker.

I like more the flood to throw ones due to their versatility compared to flashlights with a fixed lens.

 

Two lens with the same diameter, the same emitter, driven with the same current will throw the same. Of course the quality of one lens over another is possible (clearer or with anti-reflective coatings) but that's not likely to be the case in the price range that we are talking about. You could just get a "bad" lens I suppose. Focal length is what determines the lens curvature. As mentioned more curve with a smaller focal length and it will be closer to the lens and therefore will have a bigger hotspot. The larger focal length will be further away and have a smaller hotspot but both will throw the same. If you have a 38mm lens that is throwing further than a 50mm lens something else is not the same between those lights. If they have the same emitter driven the same the 50mm should throw 31% further than the 38mm lens.

The 38mm one has a bigger focal lenght than the 50mm one, and the 50mm one does not focus as good as the 38mm does showing clearly all the lines of the die on the wall at about 4m, while the 50mm one doesn't at any distance.

I have got a third one, having a usefull diameter of 37mm, thicker and with a shorter focal lenght that throws something in between the 38 and 50mm, not a perfect focus but closer to it than the 50mm one.

All of them throw much further than the typical 28 external and 20mm internal diameters from the X2000, MXDL SA28 etc etc (they are all more or less the same), where by the way I also have a 28mm one from DX, with 27 aprox usefull diameter made in glass that is really worse than the acrylic one with 20mm.

I have tested all of them "by eye", with XM-L T6, U2, XR-E Q5 and R2, all Direct drived, I had been swapping leds and dies, as I have more than one host for each.

As chineese material is like a lotto, I do not find that easy to say, the smaller focal lenght or the opposite will throw better.

Here you got some pics of what I got but the 50mm one, which was scratched but I can tell you it was the worst out of the big ones, I only show one of the 4 38/33mm as they are all the same diameter an height, but they do not work all as good, two of them throw further, than the other two.

 

 

gcbryan
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I suspect the unknown variable is just the lens quality. I've also noticed just with my own lenses that it's definitely not a matter of glass being good and acrylic being bad.

The only "bad" thing about acrylic is that they are easier to scratch. I've also noticed that in many cases than an acrylic lens when put into a host has less artifacts than the glass lenses I had. Especially the DX glass 28mm that you mention.

I can't recall if the throw was worse with the DX 28mm since I can't remember if I measured it with my light meter.

I can say that it is sometimes surprising (and not intuitive) that lights that appear brighter aren't necessarily so. Using a light meter really helps to sort things out.

yavi
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Maybe it is just lottery, and the worse ones were not manufactured properly, it is difficult to know yeah.

I will end up buying the DBS once I find a good body to make it work flood to throw, and it is your fault guys haha.

I am quite happy with the good 38mm lenses, specially when I replaced the Yezl T9 one by one of the good ones, the versatility of it is really good on a relatively small flashlight.

yavi
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I recommend you to come during the day, it is darker than in the night in my house haha.

I will wait a bit to get the DBS, once a friend of mine gets some machinery to do threads etc I will get it and design a good host for it to do it zooming, probably a single 26650 host.

2100, would you let me know the internal diameter of the head where it attaches to tbe body?

I would like to see if any of the hosts I got would be suitable for it.

2100
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Solarforce MPP-1 @ 1.5A, DBS with new EZ900 XR-E @ 1.5A, Olight M3X.   This is not my picture but luminositykilledthecat's @ CPF

asd

2100
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gorann wrote:

And which sucker is on  the far right of the photo Big Smile 

Somewhat malfunctioning Crelant 7G5.

2100
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Should be compatible, since my Ultrafire U80 can screw to the DBS body and operate the light.  Someone's C8 body tube can screw to the STL-V6 head, so can the DBS V3 tube.

2100
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Oh then better not get it already, shouldn't be compatible.

gcbryan
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I'm not really looking to buy any more lights for a while but the one light out there that is interesting to me at the moment is this one.

It's quite the premium to pay however to only get 50-60 percent more throw over the $15 Smallsun zoom light which I measured quickly (and roughly) at about 30kcd.

2100, since this is a long thread can you answer two questions (that may have been covered earlier)?

1) How does the beam compare to other aspherics that you may have in terms of rings or beam quality overall?

2) I'm only interested in one mode (high) and single 18650. I don't want bigger lights. What pill would this be and what is the kcd measurement in that configuration? Is the EZ900 only available in the (2)18650 version?

I know it dims quickly but (2) 18650 is not an option for me so what could I expect for short periods of time?

Thanks.

coolboatguy
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was there an outcome to the tail cap question?  i'm curious because i'm also looking to put a remote pressure switch on the stl-v6.  being my only light, i have no clue what this matches.  maybe i could use the generic switch? 

http://www.manafont.com/product_info.php/ultrafire-pressure-switch-tail-...

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