Epileds 5050 (XM-footprint) high power red led, short post with test results.

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djozz
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Epileds 5050 (XM-footprint) high power red led, short post with test results.

https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/5PCS-5050-Epileds-XML-XM-L-T6-LED-10W-High-Power-LED-Red-Green-Blue-UV/32840392031.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dRWj25k

I stumbled upon these a few months ago and did an output test on one, but because the performance is not that great the urge to make it public was not high. In another thread Flash Tom asked about it so here are the raw measurements at least.

The die is larger than the XP-E2 and the output colour looks exactly the same. Here is a picture next to an ancient red XP-E (same size as XP-E2), to get an idea of the size.

Here are the numbers, I re-tested a red XP-E2 next to it because it was two years ago that I tested it, and the results to my contentment are virtually the same.

So, as I announced, despite the considerably larger die (2x ?), this led performs just a littlebit better (from 2A on). I now see that the voltage is quite a bit lower than the XP-E2, that adds to the efficiency, I may have underestimated this led a bit. And they are not expensive and should make a nice 12-led SRK-clone red monster.

Edited by: djozz on 06/21/2018 - 12:50
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Thanks Beer

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Yep, Thanks also. I’ve been using the red XPE2 for awhile now in B158’s. Thanks to your tests I know what current to drive them at. Thumbs Up

 

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Thank you very much djozz! I‘m already enthusiastic about trying out this LED in some hosts. Smile

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Have you tried de-doming them? I know with the cheap Chinese knock-off emitters, chemical de-doming is sometimes super difficult, if not impossible. Maybe slicing?

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djozz
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DavidEF wrote:
Have you tried de-doming them? I know with the cheap Chinese knock-off emitters, chemical de-doming is sometimes super difficult, if not impossible. Maybe slicing?

There have been talk about and attempts at dedoming colour leds before, with no clear gains. Whatever is the plain optical benefit of removing the dome (like a possibly better behaviour in TIR optics), these dies do not have a phosfor layer that can re-excited by reflected blue light so the added luminance increase of photon recycling is not there.
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djozz wrote:
DavidEF wrote:
Have you tried de-doming them? I know with the cheap Chinese knock-off emitters, chemical de-doming is sometimes super difficult, if not impossible. Maybe slicing?

There have been talk about and attempts at dedoming colour leds before, with no clear gains. Whatever is the plain optical benefit of removing the dome (like a possibly better behaviour in TIR optics), these dies do not have a phosfor layer that can re-excited by reflected blue light so the added luminance increase of photon recycling is not there.

I would have thought there would be some gain from a smaller apparent die size.

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Thanks for the hard work mate!

The bigger LED size would have a better look in a floody reflector light?

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everydaysurvivalgear wrote:
Thanks for the hard work mate!

The bigger LED size would have a better look in a floody reflector light?


I have not checked but the die size is still not big, as small as XP-G or 219C, should work in any reflector. The die not square, I wonder if that has any influence on the beam (my guess: not)
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djozz wrote:
everydaysurvivalgear wrote:
Thanks for the hard work mate!

The bigger LED size would have a better look in a floody reflector light?


I have not checked but the die size is still not big, as small as XP-G or 219C, should work in any reflector. The die not square, I wonder if that has any influence on the beam (my guess: not)

Since you said it is as small as XP-G or Nichia 219C…would this LED fit under the Carclo lens of the Astrolux S41? I’m not really sure about it but I like the idea of an S41 Quadruple Red with about 2300-2400 lumens of red light when overdriving the LEDs to 4 amps each. Is this current still okay for frequent usage or do you think there’s a better optimal current/output ratio?

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No, the die is smaller than an XM-L but the dome is just as big, doubt it will fit under a Carclo or S41 quad TIR and AFAIK there is also not an XM footsprint triple or quad board available.

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djozz wrote:

Can you remember what the forward voltage was?

I got some from Kaidomain titled “Custom 10W 5050 Red” and even though these look like a 100% match, the specs are different in your link. Maybe the AliExpress page has changed over the years to something different?

These ones I have were spec’d at 3-3.7v forward voltage and yours in the link are 2.2-2.4v.

I asked Kaidomain and they said theirs is a “custom” LED and not Epileds, I think they’re lying.

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Funtastic wrote:
djozz wrote:

Can you remember what the forward voltage was?

I got some from Kaidomain titled “Custom 10W 5050 Red” and even though these look like a 100% match, the specs are different in your link. Maybe the AliExpress page has changed over the years to something different?

These ones I have were spec’d at 3-3.7v forward voltage and yours in the link are 2.2-2.4v.

I asked Kaidomain and they said theirs is a “custom” LED and not Epileds, I think they’re lying.


I agree that the KD version looks like the exact same led as in the OP. The forward voltage can be found in the OP as well, in the table that I made a picture of. (i.e. 2.83 V at 3A). I think that the voltage that KD specifies (3V-3.7V) is not correct and implausible for a red led, almost 1V too high.
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Thank you for the reply. I tested it in the Convoy L21B and it’s very decent at 3A with 9*7135. I asked Simon to get some and he said he didn’t know what these “Custom” LEDs were, now I know so hopefully he can get them.

I get 600m and 460 lumens. It provides a good wide beam which is much better than the Osram red

Running on this 9*7135 driver it runs perfectly which has me questioning the forward voltage. Usually with 2.4v it drops battery voltage rather quickly on the Osram red, but this Epileds or custom LED tracked exactly the same as any other 3v using this driver

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According to the OP, 9×7135 (3150mA) should measure 2.87V over the led, it will be quite hard on the 7135 chips because unless low drain 18650’s are used, they need to burn off quite some overvoltage. But I have tortured them worse than that and they survived fine.

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Using my phone I can’t get the correct links to show the graphs

Custom red – http://imgur.com/a/5B0aDRJ

Osram red – https://imgur.com/a/AhxehRy

Both using a 8×7135 driver for the graphs

Does that look like it has low forward voltage like the osram?

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If anything, longer regulation would suggest lower Vf.

Other than them being cheap, I don’t think these perform particularly well. XPG3 deep red nearly keeps up at 660nm, which us much less efficient when it comes to radiant power vs lumens.

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Also, you can easily measure the Vf with a dmm. Ideally, solder a second long set of wires to the star(they can be very thin since they wont carry any current) and measure the voltage while running. You’ll see the Vf drop at first fairly quickly then stabilize. This is due to the negative temperature coefficient as well ass the 7135s heating up and possibly sagging current

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JaredM wrote:
Also, you can easily measure the Vf with a dmm. Ideally, solder a second long set of wires to the star(they can be very thin since they wont carry any current) and measure the voltage while running. You’ll see the Vf drop at first fairly quickly then stabilize. This is due to the negative temperature coefficient as well ass the 7135s heating up and possibly sagging current

Thank you, just confirmed that it is indeed an Epiled with a Vf of 2.4v on High. Well, that cleared that up, I was hoping to use a regular driver, but it seems I’ll still need to use Convoy’s red driver which is limited to 2.5A, maybe I can ask for a 3A version.

I will get some XP-E2 in 620nm and 660nm and see what I think. It looks like they should throw further, but I do quite like the wide beam of the Epiled.

Kaidomain kept denying it was an Epiled until I mentioned I had measured the Vf at 2.4v max, which is when they admitted it, why lie? Very annoying to go as far as listing an incorrect Vf on the website, maybe they didn’t know…

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Maybe just use the Osram in a smaller reflector? Something the size of an m21b should be similar to the epileds in the l21b

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JaredM wrote:
Maybe just use the Osram in a smaller reflector? Something the size of an m21b should be similar to the epileds in the l21b

Osram red in the C8+ is good, but really enjoy the wider beam + 600m in the L21B

I’m going to tell Simon to hold off and test the XP-E2 first

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djozz wrote:

Which nm version was that XP-E2? Any idea if all 3 620, 660, 730nm would take 3 amps?

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Funtastic wrote:
djozz wrote:

Which nm version was that XP-E2? Any idea if all 3 620, 660, 730nm would take 3 amps?


I think that I talked about how much overvoltage the 7135 chips can take, it was not about leds. Or is ghe quote from another of my posts?

Anyway, none of the red XP-E2’s can handle 3A. Apart from that they max out at just above 2A, the red led types are much more sensitive to warming up than blue leds, so even at 2A you can see the output lowering after a while.

But there are 660nm leds that can handle 3A, i.e. the 660nm XP-G3, a pretty cool led with a bit larger die than XP-E2. I bought it from Mouser and tested it 2 years ago but never made a proper thread about it. I did post some test results on BLF buried in another thread, and it can be found via via signature link. But here it is: https://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1683223#comment-1683223

And then there is the Luminus SST-20-DR 660nm, I don’t think anyone has bought or tested one but it also has a larger die than XP-E2 so should handle 3A.

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I have the SST20 DR (gen 1 I believe) collecting dust in my stash. I need to check my mouser invoice to see for sure, but I know I bought samples of each dome version/emission angle and plan to output test and also check cd through a reflector and b158 aspheric

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Thumbs Up Cool
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Quote:
should make a nice 12-led SRK-clone red monster

I am interested in a floody, red light soda can. Any suggestions to mod or purchase? I have an sp36 I wouldn’t mind using.

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djozz wrote:
Thumbs Up Cool

Got around to part of this this morning. More later. Turns out I had a 90deg SST10 DR and 120deg SST20 DR. Output tested the SST10 and threw it in the B158 with a Convoy 1.5A buck driver bumped up to ~1.9A (stock only pushed 1.35A, efficiency is bad as the input current was basically the same with Vin nearly double Vf, I’d ballpark it around 65% (sigh).. Tail amps are reading 1.81 right now with the aged 25R at 4.06V. Beam is okay, actually pretty round.

Output tested the SST10, won’t post full results yet..When I do it’ll just be relative output because lumen figures are almost certainly meaningless with my setup for non-white emitters.

Point here is that Luminus rates these aggressively. 1.5A gave 90% of peak output – which occurred somewhere between 2.1 and 2.3A, depending on temperature. Bond wires survived an accidental hit of 3.14A, so good news there. I’d say running these at 1.5-1.9A is an appropriate top end, depending on how much of a number pusher you are. Might dial the driver back down with an r120 (r150+r330 now) and target ~1.7A which is 96% of max flux.4

TLDR: Luminus datasheet is BLF-approved. Spec Imax yields 90% of the ultimate potential. Bond wires are robust and can survive 2x rating. Personal recommendation of 1.5-1.7A for turbo.

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Thanks for the results. Yes, relative output is the way to go, with almost all luxmeters you get big errors at the flanks of the visible spectrum.

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So real world, naked eyeball testing last night suggested the throw range is 350-400m ‘unaided’, and up to ~600m in ideal conditions looking through an optic. Targets where grass, soil, and trees. I’m sure reflective objects could be seen out much further, but I don’t think many people hunt road signs.

A tree line at 345m was very clearly lit up, and I could pick out individual trees. At ~600m, there was a weathered wood telephone pole that I could barely notice being illuminated. In fact, before scanning the area with a 350kcd white light, I didn’t even know it was there. Spot is fairly large, with a full angle of about 2.7º – just about identical to the WT90.