[Rumor] new 40700 cell size

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Lexel
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Problem with cells of that output power would be you can’t use springs anymore

djozz
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Leaf springs are an option but they have less travel.

Serifus
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5 sets of double springs might handle that shock load, and amperage, but i dont think that there will be anyone building protection circuits for a 40mm cell. Honestly i am more interested in a 4×20700 lt1 max with 20ah of battery or some extra fat 4×20700 soda can lights. Most scenarios that would permit 40mm cells are going to require inbuilt charging, cars and flashlights and other. Also im genuinely curious as to if the maxwell aquisition will give many fruits of development due to ev drain chaeacteristics being the high amperage pulsing to energise motor windings

EasyB
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Lexel wrote:
Problem with cells of that output power would be you can’t use springs anymore

Bypassed springs should be fine though.
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samgalax wrote:
Think in the price of those 40700…

50$ each???

It would likely be cheaper. And you would only need one. Per light.

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Seriously, what's the point? Used many search engines, and nothing but this.

In all honesty, if the point is to build up subtle (mental, emotional) energy around this to see if Tesla Big Smile gets the idea, why 40700? Most people here don't really care about a newer “40700” format, or don't know. I do know what I want, and I don't care.

Most people here would prefer and love to see improvements on current formats like 26650/26700 or 32650/32700. Concerning flashlights, a completely new cell format like 40700 means you have to build up everything around a new format, again, just for the vagary of someone else.

So then, how about spreading some other rumour like “new Power Long Battery 26650 cell, 6.5 Ah and 5C continuous discharge rate”. It could also be possible and very welcome. They seem to be quite focused on LiFePO4, though. 

samgalax wrote:
Think in the price of those 40700...

50$ each???

$50? LoL! No way. The actual price of cells is a lot lower than what you usually see, more than probably. You can get Lishen 21700 cells for less than $3 a piece in AliExpress. At ≈3.628 times their volume, that's just a bit above $10 for an ordinary 40700, and probably up to $30 - 35 for higher capacity and power output cells.

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Lexel wrote:
Problem with cells of that output power would be you can’t use springs anymore

1. Not every light needs to be a hot rod. F.e. smaller and lighter LT1 with even more capacity would be a good thing.
2. I don’t think this is the case. With a cell this heavy you need very thick springs anyway. With seen double springs doing 25A. Now double thickness of each wire – that can do 100A. Is it not enough?
Barkuti wrote:

Seriously, what’s the point? Used many search engines, and nothing but this.


In all honesty, if the point is to build up subtle (mental, emotional) energy around this to see if Tesla Big Smile gets the idea, why 40700? Most people here don’t really care about a newer “40700” format, or don’t know. I do know what I want, and I don’t care.


Most people here would prefer and love to see improvements on current formats like 26650/26700 or 32650/32700. Concerning flashlights, a completely new cell format like 40700 means you have to build up everything around a new format, again, just for the vagary of someone else.


So then, how about spreading some other rumour like “new Power Long Battery 26650 cell, 6.5 Ah and 5C continuous discharge rate”. It could also be possible and very welcome. They seem to be quite focused on LiFePO4, though. 


samgalax wrote:
Think in the price of those 40700…

50$ each???


$50? LoL! No way. The actual price of cells is a lot lower than what you usually see, more than probably. You can get Lishen 21700 cells for less than $3 a piece in AliExpress. At ≈3.628 times their volume, that’s just a bit above $10 for an ordinary 40700, and probably up to $30 – 35 for higher capacity and power output cells.


Personally I would also prefer improvements to the existing standards rather than new ones. Though 40700 seems like a nice size, larger than 32650 enough to create its own niche. And since I’m not fond of the multi-cell lights I’d be very glad to see improvements in this area.
Though I admit, the thought of spending $$$ to replace my largest (read: the most expensive) lights is not nice. Wink

And I agree, the rumor is quite far fetched and I don’t look forward to seeing it implemented. If it shows up – it shows up. If it doesn’t – it doesn’t.

djozz
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I think that I’d love a 40700 size cell in a small fatty flashlight with immense output or immense runtime at low modes, makes a nice lantern too.

alpg88
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as far as springs, sure, they’ll just have to be a bit ungraded. this is my 10A switch for 200w hotwire, switch was built by matt from ASF.

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certainly wont be anything new.
m cell

thefreeman
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New pics seem to confirm the new format

They say that it is double the diameter of current Tesla cells (21700)

thefreeman
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Drew this quickly with 42mm diameter :

Without play :

3×18650 : 38.8mm
4×18650 : 43.5mm
3×21700 : 45.4mm
4×21700 : 50.7mm

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I have found a 40900 cell on Taobao: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3-c-s.w4002-21513148700.70.66...

It is pretty inefficient, though, with only 5.5Ah. But it has only 2 milliohms internal resistance. Seems to be made for car starters.

Agro
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Interesting. This is a huge news if true. Fortunately we’re likely to learn whether it is in just a week. So I’m waiting patiently.

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Similar sized batteries in LifePO4 chemistry that where available over a year ago.
I mentioned them here.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69245

idahofarmer
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Its a 5498 cell, 10x the energy of a 21700. Floats in antifreeze to warm and cool cell.
One of these cells in the blf-lt1 would give a 2 month runtime.

https://www.youtube.com./watch?time_continue=5&v=QQY2vYhysBY&feature=emb...

thefreeman wrote:
New pics seem to confirm the new format

They say that it is double the diameter of current Tesla cells (21700)

Agro
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moderator007 wrote:
Similar sized batteries in LifePO4 chemistry that where available over a year ago. I mentioned them here. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69245

The difference is that:

  • they are LiFePo4
  • their energy density is terrible when you compare with the good 18650 and 21700 cells
  • they are being made by small manufacturers which greatly reduces the chances of being adopted by flashlight makers

idahofarmer
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They have 10x a 21700 energy. Tesla will use battery pack 1/10th the current size. How is that terrible density? Not understanding ?????

It has a catalyst electrode and drops into a pack. Levels of magnitude better then 21700. New teslas built with this 5498 cell will cost msrp 29k and have 300+ mile range.

I will buy one and charge with my solar array and drive for free.

Agro wrote:
The difference is that:
  • they are LiFePo4
  • their energy density is terrible when you compare with the good 18650 and 21700 cells
  • they are being made by small manufacturers which greatly reduces the chances of being adopted by flashlight makers

Agro
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If it’s 54 mm diameter, a host will need a handle to be comfortable. Sad

Agro
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idahofarmer wrote:
They have 10x a 21700 energy. Tesla will use battery pack 1/10th the current size. How is that terrible density? Not understanding ?????

It has a catalyst electrode and drops into a pack. Levels of magnitude better then 21700. New teslas built with this 5498 cell will cost msrp 29k and have 300+ mile range.

Agro wrote:
The difference is that:
  • they are LiFePo4
  • their energy density is terrible when you compare with the good 18650 and 21700 cells
  • they are being made by small manufacturers which greatly reduces the chances of being adopted by flashlight makers

I was replying to an earlier post.

I already added a quotation to make it clear to others.

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Agro wrote:
If it’s 54 mm diameter, a host will need a handle to be comfortable. Sad

You must have small hands. I was hoping for a headlamp. Party

thefreeman
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idahofarmer wrote:
Its a 5498 cell, 10x the energy of a 21700. Floats in antifreeze to warm and cool cell.
One of these cells in the blf-lt1 would give a 2 month runtime.

https://www.youtube.com./watch?time_continue=5&v=QQY2vYhysBY&feature=emb...

It seems that the number 54 comes from “FX054” marking on the can, that sounds like a very wild guess if you ask me, granted it looks bigger than 40700 unless those are small hands.

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The bad news is now what will happen to the 21700?

idahofarmer
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Watch the video…………

https://www.youtube.com./watch?time_continue=5&v=QQY2vYhysBY&feature=emb...

thefreeman wrote:
idahofarmer wrote:
Its a 5498 cell, 10x the energy of a 21700. Floats in antifreeze to warm and cool cell.
One of these cells in the blf-lt1 would give a 2 month runtime.

https://www.youtube.com./watch?time_continue=5&v=QQY2vYhysBY&feature=emb...

It seems that the number 54 comes from “FX054” marking on the can, that sounds like a very wild guess if you ask me, granted it looks bigger than 40700 unless those are small hands.

thefreeman
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That comes from the twitter guy cited in the video, unless I missed something else (video is such an annoying format, just write an article).

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moderator007 wrote:
Similar sized batteries in LifePO4 chemistry that where available over a year ago. I mentioned them here. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69245

And there are rumours the new batteries will be LFP.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/16/tesla-battery-day-has-elon-musk-alr...

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I hope they make packs available to solar off grid users. It would be awesome to have a 100kw pack.

Andrew_Debbie wrote:
moderator007 wrote:
Similar sized batteries in LifePO4 chemistry that where available over a year ago. I mentioned them here. http://budgetlightforum.com/node/69245

And there are rumours the new batteries will be LFP.

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/16/tesla-battery-day-has-elon-musk-alr...

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Seriously exciting! But if it is manufactured in-house by Tesla, will it ever be sold in the after market?

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SKV89 wrote:
Seriously exciting! But if it is manufactured in-house by Tesla, will it ever be sold in the after market?

Maybe no…but it starts the same as 21700. These cells were intended to be used by Tesla in their vehicles period.
Then they landed nearly everywhere…
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idahofarmer wrote:
They have 10x a 21700 energy. Tesla will use battery pack 1/10th the current size. How is that terrible density?

I don’t think the pack is going to be 1/10 the volume. There will likely be some packing efficiency improvements with the larger cell, but overall volume should remain similar. A 10x reduction in volume would require other worldly improvements in active material specific energy.

The point for them is $$ first. Fewer cells in an architecture with shared components will save time and money in production. I’m not qualified to even guess how much that may be, but I can say pretty confidently the energy density of the cell is not 10x current values.

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