Are BAK 21700 5000mAh 15A Battery (N21700CG) any good?

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raccoon city
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Are BAK 21700 5000mAh 15A Battery (N21700CG) any good?

I just ordered 4 of these batteries for $29.18 shipped.

https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/21700-batteries/products/bak-n21700cg-battery

5000mAh and 15A sound pretty good to me.

I wanted to order locally (from the U.S.)

It's probably too late to change my order, but did I get a good deal for budget high capacity 21700 cells?

Edited by: raccoon city on 03/29/2022 - 19:41
CRC2
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https://www.18650batterystore.com/collections/21700-batteries

Out of all the 21700’s available here, can I ask why you chose those ones?

Im trying to learn about cells right now, and in a couple other threads where im asking my questions people seem to keep recommending the Samsung 40T and Molicell’s.

Both of which I see are available in the link above from where you ordered. With the 40T being the same price as the ones you ordered and the Molicell only a dollar more but rated at 45A.

I dont want to hijack your thread here, but this seems like a good oportunity to get some more of the information im after.

raccoon city
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Because of the claimed 5000mAh and 15A, and because they're somewhat inexpensive.

Photon Master
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I just got some Molicel 21700 P42A 4200mAh 45A and they’re amazing. Huge increase in run time and brightness compared to my 5,000s and Samsung 30t, respectively.

raccoon city
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Yeah, I have some Molicel 21700 P42A 4200mAh already.

It's an excellent cell, but I was looking for a bit more runtime.

(My newest flashlight doesn't pull that many amps.)

Photon Master
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Ahh… I’ve been using 3 of these bad boys since last January. Great runtime. Picked up a 2 amp charger because they took a long time @ 1 amp

https://www.illumn.com/21700-samsung-inr2170050e-5000mah-high-discharge-...

BlueSwordM
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@raccoon city, yes, they’re pretty good.

Almost on par with the Samsung 50E3.

Like the 50E3 before it though, 15A is too high of a current rating.

10A is recommended to get full cycle life(800 cycles) without cooling.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Bort
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From what i understand there is a trade off for capacity vs sustained output rate. The 5000mAh batteries seem to max out at 10A sustained. So i am suspicious about those 5000mAh 15A cells. I suspect one of those outputs is wrong.
That said i’m not the battery expert so i could be wrong.

Do you have the ability to capacity test the batteries once you get them on a charger?

Also i noticed there are Samsung E, G and other letter designations, i was not able to figure out what they meant, anyone have info handy?

I ended up buying 5000mAh Samsung 50E cells from Fasttech, they are on the way.

That said there are apparently 4800mAh 21700s that can do a few thousand cycles, next time i intend to buy those if i can find them.

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

Funtastic
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The Samsung 50E2 is slightly better for the first 500mAh at 10A, but the BAK cells hold a higher voltage for the remaining discharge.

Piercing The Darkness YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/c/PiercingTheDarkness

fogofwar
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BAK is a solid brand

DudeMan
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bench test by Mooch. he also recommends staying under 10A with this cell.

link

BlueSwordM
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This actually one of the reasons the Lishen 4500mAh 21700 cell would actually be preferred for the GT FC40, since it can draw quite a bit of current, particularly as the cell discharges

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Marc E
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I can’t comment on the cell but i can link you to a datasheet:
https://www.fogstar-wholesale.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/N21700CG-SPEC.pdf

Bort wrote:
From what i understand there is a trade off for capacity vs sustained output rate. The 5000mAh batteries seem to max out at 10A sustained. So i am suspicious about those 5000mAh 15A cells. I suspect one of those outputs is wrong.
That said i’m not the battery expert so i could be wrong.

I’m not a battery expert either and would normally be wary of the 15A rating too but the datasheet (section 5.4.1) claims 85% capacity at 3C which is a 15A discharge so they may be capable of it, but i can’t disagree with BlueSwordM’s opinion that it will reduce battery life.
Bort
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Marc E wrote:
I can’t comment on the cell but i can link you to a datasheet:
https://www.fogstar-wholesale.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/N21700CG-SPEC.pdf

Bort wrote:
From what i understand there is a trade off for capacity vs sustained output rate. The 5000mAh batteries seem to max out at 10A sustained. So i am suspicious about those 5000mAh 15A cells. I suspect one of those outputs is wrong.
That said i’m not the battery expert so i could be wrong.

I’m not a battery expert either and would normally be wary of the 15A rating too but the datasheet (section 5.4.1) claims 85% capacity at 3C which is a 15A discharge so they may be capable of it, but i can’t disagree with BlueSwordM’s opinion that it will reduce battery life.

Nice to see the datasheet but a no name company’s datasheet does not carry much weight for me.
I have dealt with too many knockoffs in my time and find the big players are more honest since they can’t easily get away with making up numbers. Not to say they are squeaky clean either but the ability to hold them accountable makes them less dishonest.

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

BlueSwordM
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@Bort, Bak is far from a no name company.

Besides, their cells have been tested a lot Smile

We have the same opinion for most 5Ah 3C cells: their 3C rating is a bit much, and we prefer to underrate them at 2C.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Bort
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BlueSwordM wrote:
@Bort, Bak is far from a no name company.

Besides, their cells have been tested a lot Smile

We have the same opinion for most 5Ah 3C cells: their 3C rating is a bit much, and we prefer to underrate them at 2C.


This is the first time i have heard of them.
BYD, CATL, Lishen, these are companies i know.

And you seem to agree with me that 3C is a bit much. Hence their datasheet is unreliable.

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

BlueSwordM
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? No, it’s just that most of us think about that for 5Ah cell, the Samsung 50EX series, Molicel M50A, Sanyo NCR21700 5Ah, etc.

Only the LG M50LT and the Lishen 5Ah cells seem to be well rated for 15A without any real downsides to cycle life.

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Bort
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BlueSwordM wrote:
Only the LG M50LT and the Lishen 5Ah cells seem to be well rated for 15A without any real downsides to cycle life.

Again making my point.

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

raccoon city
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I guess you're talking about the Lishen LR2170SD...

I could have ordered that for even less money than the BAK.  :FACEPALM:

BlueSwordM
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@raccoon city, you forgot the fact that it’s sold out Smile

You made a great choice Smile

My very own high current Beryllium Copper springs Gen 3:
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/67401
Liitokala Aliexpress Stores Battery Fraud: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/60547

Bort
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raccoon city wrote:

I guess you’re talking about the Lishen LR2170SD…

I could have ordered that for even less money than the BAKalt=:" />


Life is a school, such things happen to all of us.

The Journal of Alternative Facts

"It is critical that there is a credible academic source for the growing and important discipline of Alternative Facts. This field of study will just keep winning, and we knew that all the best people would want to be on board. There is a real risk in the world today that people might be getting their information about science from actual scientists."

 

raccoon city
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BlueSwordM wrote:

@raccoon city, you forgot the fact that it’s sold out Smile

You made a great choice Smile

Awesome.

For once I'm glad that the better item is sold out.  :THUMBS-UP:

atobe
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I got 4 of them from there also. Didn’t have any problems. Can’t use them for hot-rods.

"☚ (<‿<)☚"

snakebite
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Bak stuff is decent.
I would use them if i didnt have tesla model 3 packs to tear down for cells.
Last year a regular bought a bunch of the bak 5000mah 21700 for me to put in his harmon kardon speakers.
A cycle a day since and no capacity fade noted.

Photon Master
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I decided to switch from Samsung 30s over to Molicel 4,200 mah 45 Amps. Not quite up there with 5,000 but much better runtime for my lights and noticeable increase in power

DudeMan
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Photon Master wrote:
I decided to switch from Samsung 30s over to Molicel 4,200 mah 45 Amps. Not quite up there with 5,000 but much better runtime for my lights and noticeable increase in power

less internal resistance on the lower capacity cell. this is why finding the right battery for your application is so important.
i use a 5000mAh battery, but only draw 500mA of current most of the time, and 1A at most.
Photon Master
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That’s really interesting I didn’t know that

CRC2
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DudeMan wrote:
Photon Master wrote:
I decided to switch from Samsung 30s over to Molicel 4,200 mah 45 Amps. Not quite up there with 5,000 but much better runtime for my lights and noticeable increase in power
less internal resistance on the lower capacity cell. this is why finding the right battery for your application is so important. i use a 5000mAh battery, but only draw 500mA of current most of the time, and 1A at most.

Can you elaborate more on “this is why finding the right battery for your application is so important.” for me please?

Ive raised concerns here and there a few times, about not understanding whether a certain cell and flashlight are an “appropriate combination”.
I basically just get told to not really worry about it.

DudeMan
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CRC2 wrote:

Can you elaborate more on “this is why finding the right battery for your application is so important.” for me please?

Ive raised concerns here and there a few times, about not understanding whether a certain cell and flashlight are an “appropriate combination”.
I basically just get told to not really worry about it.


i’ll try. note, i’m not an engineer or an expert in anything.

first you need to know how many Amps are drawn on the battery, not on the Emmitter leads for the light in question.
then i suggest looking at battery capacity curves at different currents. you may find you get more capacity with a lower mAh cell at a given load.
some want the highest output and least voltage drop from a cell when fully charged and capacity be dammed.
also, MANY cell ‘manufacturers’ and re-wrappers lie about Amp, and capacity ratings.

the two places i use that in my opinion are very reputable for battery test data.

Mooch (AKA Battery Mooch on youtube) his content is aimed at batteries for Vape Mods etc, but his testing is thorough and relevant to us.
make sure you read his notes when he tests cells.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blogs/mooch.256958/

HKJ (from EEVblog)
https://lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers%20UK.html

i really like Mooch’s approach and showing just how many companies and re-wrappers lie about ratings.
you should check him out on youtube. very informative about choosing the right cells.

or, you could ‘not worry about it’

vapcell Dennis
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CG battery is good,equal to 50E-2

CRC2
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@Dudeman
Thank you.
I’ve clearly been using my lights like a moron this whole time.
I don’t know anything about electricity let alone taking it that far.
I no longer feel safe using these lights/cells. And probably never should have been in the first place being so uneducated. Thanks for possibly saving my life and others. Or at least from wasting any more money.

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