Anyone know how the battery life indicator works on a fenix light? I’m eyeing the PD36R Pro, have a spare Nitecore 21700 i’d like to use with it, the fenix website says the indication light only works with Fenix batteries. Is that strictly true (eg proprietary interface of some kind?) or will a good quality protected cell still work?
Where does it say the PD36R Pro battery charge indicator only works with Fenix batteries?
https://help.fenix-store.com/en-US/articles/fenix-battery-faqs-36708
Battery
- Included: Fenix ARB-L21-5000 V2.0 Rechargeable 5000mAh 21700 battery
- Compatible: ARB-L21-5000U and ARB-L21-4000P
They mean compatible cells they make, others should also work.
Personally I haven't had any issues charging or using any OEM battery in my TK26R, but Fenix lights are made in China and distributed in the U.S. under the Fenix brand, so some things that work on some lights won't work on others. Chabuduo.
Battery FAQleads to ==>
What batteries should I use in my Fenix light?
Fenix flashlights are compatible with many different brands of batteries. Different flashlights call for different battery types and not all battery manufacturers make all types of batteries!
Energizer: You can use any Energizer AA or AAA battery in a flashlight that takes AA or AAA batteries. Just be aware that not all flashlights can use rechargeable batteries.
Tenergy: Fenix lights support the use of Tenergy brand 18650 batteries and CR123A batteries. Please note that CR123A batteries are not rechargeable and flashlights that use them CANNOT use RCR123A batteries (rechargeable CR123As)
Panasonic: We have had good luck with customers using Panasonic brand 18650s.
Fenix: Fenix produces their own line of all battery types that our flashlights use. We have multiple options for 18650 batteries, 14500 batteries, and 16340 batteries. Check each individual product's specifications to find which type is compatible with your light.
Most other reputable brands like Samsung are good as well!
DO NOT USE THE FOLLOWING BATTERIES
Duracell: It is not recommended that you use Duracell alkaline (AA and AAA batteries) in Fenix flashlights. While Duracell is a good brand, they are known to slowly release a gas while they are not in use. Because Fenix lights are waterproof this gas cannot escape and therefore can cause corrosion build up which may damage your light.
Nuon: Nuon 18650 batteries have been seen on many occasions to not work consistently in Fenix lights
Surefire: Surefire 18650 batteries are not made in a safe way and have been the cause of several dangerous incidents that we are aware of. We recommend that you stay clear of these batteries.
Can a USB rechargeable battery be charged in a Fenix USB rechargeable flashlight?
Yes it is possible but we do not recommend it. You can charge a USB rechargeable battery using a USB rechargeable flashlight, but we have seen cases where there was interference between the battery and the flashlight. So we recommend you use a non-USB rechargeable battery in these flashlights if possible.
They say that because the relation between voltage and energy may vary on different batteries. But the battery indicator works just fine with any bottom top battery.
Are you sure? I seem to vaguely remember putting unprotected cells in a Fenix light in the past and the battery indicator didn’t light up… maybe i’m misremembering
I did wonder how they would make it only work with their batteries given that there doesn’t appear to be any contacts other than the positive/negative
Interesting, is Duracell really that much more likely to leak than Energizer or is this anecdotal?
Well I was going to test this theory today, the PD36R Pro arrived, but it turns out the Nitecore cells are too wide to fit inside the tube!
That is quoted from Fenix page (linked). I was just as surprised to read that. I have a stash of Duracell I use in Lumintop lights waterproof to 2m, so may face an unexpected issue. Notable is a copper Tool AAA, which is not an investment I’d want to ruin.
Side note: While the Tool AA is a pretty nice multi-fuel light other than very noticeable color distortion, the Tool AAA Copper is reverse brightness pattern of High-Medium-Low and heavy, otherwise an excellent indoor/near-distance light.
Frankly i consider all alkalines to be too dangerous for good lights, i will only use NiMH (Ikea or Eneloop) in a flashlight.
That said i would be interested in data that Duracell is worse than Energizer.
I’ve seen Duracells leak “something” countless times, typically when the cells are depleted. Takes a bit of effort to clean the terminals up again after that happens. Definitely wouldn’t use any alkaline cells in a quality flashlight, no idea why anyone would even consider that.
Other than Fenix, I could not find another report, though if it were false I'd think Berkshire Hathaway (owners of Duracell) would take serious issue with the claim.
Here's what I did find:
I found this to be the case if the cells are subjected to brief periods below freezing, even if "relatively new" (less than 2 years old). Then again maybe it has nothing to do with temperature:
I bought a 40 pack of Duracell AA batteries from ****** in 2019 and they stated to last 10 years. The dates on these batteries are MAR 2029 but I have only used 12 batteries when I noticed that my devices were losing power quickly or acting erratically, i.e. remotes, computer mice, etc. When I replaced the batteries in these devices some of them would not even work and I noticed white corrosion on the negative end on some of the batteries. How do I get a refund as I no longer have a receipt for these? I still have about 28 batteries that are no longer good and should have lasted more than 3 years in climate controlled storage.
Duracell Battery Use, Care and Disposal
- DO – Remove batteries from the device as soon as possible after they are depleted. Some devices may continue to draw power from exhausted batteries which may cause the batteries to leak.
- DO – Store batteries, in their original packaging, in a dry place and at normal room temperature until ready to use.
- DON’T – Leave batteries in your device if you suspect it will not be used for several months. Many devices don’t power off completely when switched off and, after time, may cause the batteries inside to leak.
GUARANTEED FOR 12 YEARS IN STORAGE: Duracell guarantees each Coppertop alkaline battery to last 12 years in storage, so you can be confident these batteries will be ready when you need them
EDCForums hating on Duracell for leaking
Fluke-1587 FC and Fluke-1587 Low Battery Warning light with Duracell batteries
This one is my favorite, Tide Pods could take a lesson and not be so darn delicious:
Duracell’s new coin batteries have a bitter coating that makes them taste terrible
Interesting, though i did a quick google and found the opposite:
Frankly i’d skip alkalines unless absolutely necessary
@Bort: So that means both brands leak after expiration, however Duracell leak less? (more slowly)
I don't trust the article, it looks like they scraped information from different sites and slammed it into one article to generate ad revenue. For instance they're mentioning how Duracell alkaline can only be recharged 400 times but Energizer can be recharged 1500 times. Plus they focus on flashlight usage as being a huge current draw, which is horribly out of date as most consumer lights are LED and draw very little current. (At BLF we tend to...well, you know we're "different.")
I found more information once identifying what we're interested in is called "gassing rate." From Wikipedia:
Leaks
Potassium compound leakage inside an alkaline battery
Alkaline batteries are prone to leaking potassium hydroxide, a caustic agent that can cause respiratory, eye and skin irritation.[note 1] The risk of this can be reduced by not attempting to recharge disposable alkaline cells, by not mixing different battery types in the same device, by replacing all of the batteries at the same time, by storing batteries in a dry place and at room temperature, and by removing batteries for storage of devices.
All batteries gradually self-discharge (whether installed in a device or not) and dead batteries will eventually leak. Extremely high temperatures can also cause batteries to rupture and leak (such as in a car during summer) as well as decrease the shelf life of the battery.
The reason for leaks is that as batteries discharge — either through usage or gradual self-discharge — the chemistry of the cells changes and some hydrogen gas is generated. This out-gassing increases pressure in the battery. Eventually, the excess pressure either ruptures the insulating seals at the end of the battery, or the outer metal canister, or both. In addition, as the battery ages, its steel outer canister may gradually corrode or rust, which can further contribute to containment failure.
Once a leak has formed due to corrosion of the outer steel shell, potassium hydroxide absorbs carbon dioxide from the air to form a feathery crystalline structure of potassium carbonate that grows and spreads out from the battery over time, following along metal electrodes to circuit boards where it commences oxidation of copper tracks and other components, leading to permanent circuitry damage.
The leaking crystalline growths can also emerge from seams around battery covers to form a furry coating outside the device, that corrodes any objects in contact with the leaking device.
More detail on why this recently became a problem from Science Direct:
The removal of mercury from alkaline cells in the 1980s and its ultimate elimination in the early 1990s had a large potential impact on gassing (hydrogen generation by corrosion) risks, load capability, and shock sensitivity. The battery industry identified two approaches to reduce gassing without compromising performance: zinc alloys and additives in the electrolyte. Even with low gassing zinc powders, impure cell components could induce zinc gassing after battery assembly. It was a requirement that the purity of all cell components be improved in alkaline mercury-free cells.
The most used alloying element is bismuth, especially in the context of lead-free zinc alloys, and the most frequently paired elements are bismuth and indium, bismuth and calcium, and bismuth and aluminum. The most common ternary alloys are bismuth–indium–aluminum and bismuth–indium–calcium. The typical concentration of these elements ranges from 0.001% to 0.1%, and is preferably around 0.01%. The gassing inhibition is ascribed to the increased hydrogen overvoltage by bismuth and indium, and a surface smoothing effect of calcium and aluminum.
Postpartial or after-discharge zinc gassing appeared with the elimination of mercury and it strongly depends on the depth of discharge, alloying elements, and iron concentration in the zinc anode. Aluminum and calcium were found to decrease the effects of anodic discharge on after-discharge gassing.
The addition of bismuth and indium to zinc reduces zinc gassing in general, whereas the addition of aluminum or calcium decreases the after-discharge gassing. Those elements also impact on the rate capability of zinc alloys, namely, by impacting on the anodic passivation of zinc in alkaline electrolytes.
Zinc alloy powder used in the anode is also characterized by particle size and shape distributions. Such distributions have been found to impact on anode density, resistivity, shock sensitivity, and gassing. Typical size distributions follow log–normal distribution, with mean diameter ranging from 100 to 200 μm, and distribution width (sigma) ranged from 1.4 to 1.7. Bimodal size distributions or finer size distributions display superior high rate performance.
It seems Fenix is quite possibly correct.
Thank you for your thoughts, this has been quite informative.
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Somewhat on another topics, how to recharge alkaline batteries (not rechargeable alkaline manganese (RAM) batteries). Wikipedia also notes disposable alkaline batteries can be recharged and offers more insight.
I found mentions of both when i googled, some say energizer leaks more, some say duracell leaks more.
Frankly i’d like to see them phased out and replaced with NiMH rechargeables that rarely leak as i have had leaks from Kirkland to Panasonic to Duracell to Rayovac to Energizer to no name Chinese brands. Alkaleaks from any brand tend to unpredictably leak.
I happened to come across testing that supports that. Previously, rechargeable batteries were suggested as "not for use in" low-draw devices like remote controls and LED flashlights (to the average BLF reader: think average consumer grade, or "mainly moonlight mode" if you can't wrap your head around using a flashlight instead of house lights). Low-draw devices wouldruin the chemistry and give rechargeables a short life, though that seems to have changed. See: Eneloop Rechargeable Batteries, The Best!
Putting the title aside, the part I find interesting is discharging the cells to 0.9V seems to not kill them. Granted they'll last 50% as long as alkaline before needing to be recharged, but they also seem good for 300+ charges.
If you don't like an electronic device, tell that device that you don't like them by inserting an alkaleak. 