What i’m trying to guage is which would put the most light on, say a person stood 100ft away. A 20mm tir optic or a 20mm reflector and lens. Using a xml led. I know neither are going to throw well but which might put the most light on target. I’ve googled for the answer and found nothing i can relate to.
Links to where i can buy tir or reflector in 20mm size that might fit Xml at reasonable price to the Uk would be very much appreciated 
thank you Blf
TIR isn’t just one thing. It’s just a process so some could throw better than others but in general a TIR is just a slightly more efficient reflector with similar throw but slightly less spill and a slightly larger corona.
You need to compare an aspheric and a reflector to see a noticeable difference in throw. As you mention, a XM-L isn’t going to throw as well as a XR-E, everything else being the same.
Ok so i’m learning! As a aside i bought a tir type optic a while back from a electronics shop, seeing that there was a bit of light shining through the side i decided to paint it with white paint thinking it would reflect the light back in and out the front, that wrecked it! all the properties went as it needed air and not paint on the outside to reflect the light towards the front.
LED DNA has some inexpensive TIR optics for XML. They have them in a variety of angles and surface finishes, and come with holders which make centering the led easy. The holder should be removable.
I don't know how good they are, but the price is right.
http://www.leddna.com/reflector/
Intl-outdoor and CNQ have them too. They look the same, but they charge a little more.
This isn’t a dead-set rule, but for the most part, if a vendor doesn’t list a manufacturer of a TIR optic, it’s probably junk. It doesn’t matter where you get them, but make sure it’s a LED-IL, Carclo or Khatod. Those are the three major TIR manufacturers, and they make excellent optics. Any others are probably some cheap china junk. The price difference isn’t significant, but the performance difference is huge.
I know that Cutter (Au) stocks LedIL and if memory serves, Illumination Supply has Carclo.
PPtk
Oh, and make sure to either use the manufacturer’s holder for the optic, or read the datasheet and find out how high above the emitter it needs to sit. LED Positioning in TIR Optics is VERY critical. Far more critical than with reflectors.
so i’m closing down for the night now, a reflector is more focused but a TIR “gathers” more of the spill into a slightly bigger hotspot and so has about the same “target brightness” for want of a better word… Yes? Which leaves me wondering what size reflector would equal a spot 20ish mm TIR.
Great, i’ll have a look at those sites tomorrow and order something to try.
LedRise carries some Ledil and Carclo optics, but I'm not sure if they carry 20mm XML optics. Prices in general seem okay.
At 100 feet, your average XM-L P60 (ok, that’s 24mm) will be blindingly bright to the guy standing there, and you won’t miss any details.
Put it in a C8 reflector and you will be able to see even more detail. Put it in a TK41 or HD2010, the guy 100 fee away will hate you and see spots in front of his eyes for 10 minutes.
I have a 2.8 amp 2100 XML flashlight with a regina reflector, it throws very good, will try to post pics at 100 ft tonight.
Check mtbr forums for beamshot comparisons, to my eyes the regina throws the best using xml
This is a XM-L 2.8amp in a Regina 19mm reflector at about 100ft to the wooden fence
Future electronics in Canada has been helpfull to me. Fraen also makes reflectors and polymer optics makes tir optics. Don’t know if they would be a good source for you but I think they are based in Montreal.
Liking the LedRise site, not heard of them before, they have neat stuff, how about 1000 x XP-G for £1300?! bargain! Future electronics shipping doesnt seem too bad at £6 international either, . Anyway just got this to try, the local shop was good enough to get it me, Ledil Leila seems to do nicely but am getting a Ledil Regina in the future to compare with.
Here is a close up 1ft to wall, it has 2 distinct ‘beams’, a nice hot centre surrounded by a big floody spot, also there is a large square hallo barely visible, more noticable on the left in the photo, then the faint spill which extends to nearly 180 degrees, useful for seeing any close oerhanging brances etc.
Left ultrafire 501 xml on medium, ledil leila xml @700ma, trustfire A3-R5 xpg on medium, 5 ft to wall, excuse the ‘ghetto basement effect’ still light here.
100ft in the dark doesnt seem a problem, i would have used a p60 reflector but just too big.