In wake of the hoverboard recall among other things this scares the crap out of me. I saw this in my latest Singletracks email and thought I would share it here. I am not sure if this is the right forum for this so I am sorry if it is not. I ordered my first torch for christmas with litium ion cells and a charger. What is the deal with all these batteries? Solarstorm Light burns down Condo.
The issue is that improperly constructed li ion batteries are dangerous and there’s tons of crap batteries coming out of china. I know it’s almost sacriledge on this forum but I personally don’t buy batteries from Chinese vendors. I may buy a cheap light from over there, but all my cells come from either illumn.com or mtnelectronics.com, occasionally GoingGear, because I know those sites are ran by reputable folks who have shown that they’ll work to keep cheap and/or counterfeit cells out of their inventory. The couple-dollar savings isnt worth it to me.
I ordered my stuff from fasttech. Should I worry? I got Sanyo cells.
You ordered Sanyo cells. What you get could be anything.
Look I’m probably overly cautious and you’ll probably be fine. Just check them out good when you get them. Do they actually read the proper voltage? Do they get hot when discharging or charging? So they seem to have the sort of capacity (runtime) you’d expect?
You could always buy a profiling charger and really test them. Opus make some good ones. You’d have to test a lot of suspect cells to make up the cost though.
These bike packs have usually cells in series and a normal power plug to charge them. Normally the pack has a charging circuit, protection circuit and batterymonitorsystem which balances and charges them….these are in my eyes a lot more dangerous than the ultrafire 18650 batteries.
almost all fires are caused by crap cells in series charged not properly.
If I gift someone a lithium powered light I always gift a proper charger and two protected brand batteries as a set. I also warn them to ask me anything related to flashlight if they are confused or want to buy extra batteries for example.
Werner is generally correct, its usually cheap cells wired in series causing problems. One cell is weaker than the other, so the stronger cell starts trying to charge the weaker cell inside the device and problems occur. Even weak, suspect cells are probably fine used by themselves. But with counterfeits and other crap like this:
floating around, I just don’t take any chances. My opinion, of course.
More photos of these sorts of batteries in this thread: Have you seen this type of counterfeit 18650 battery before? UltraFire
I don’t mean to sound suspicious of our US sellers (Mtn, Illumn, Liion) but I don’t remember seeing a list of who their suppliers are. I trust a seller until I hear of people getting fakes from them. So far, the only fakes I’ve ever bought were Ultrafire “5000mah’s” I got on ebay before I found this forum. I absolutely trust Fasttech to deliver what they advertise. If you order an LG MJ1, you’ll get a genuine MJ1; if you order an Ultrafire labelled 6000mah, that’s what you’ll get.
Like Warner, the vast majority of safety issues I’ve seen has been with cells in series, either cheap cells that discharge at different rates then reverse-charge and vent, or cells used with a “charger” that is really just a direct power connection.
Usually you have to buy a battery box for a light like that if it doesn’t come with one. You can’t necessarily blame the light because who knows what batteries the person stuck in the box. The box could have been crappy or the batteries could have been crappy or inserted incorrectly.
Oh I get it, they’re buying from somewhere too. But I know from first-hand experience that they test and verify their cells, and will stand behind them. Illumn even got a shipment of counterfeit VTC5s once. They sold a few before they discovered it but those were quickly recalled and the whole incident was handled very professionally. Maybe fasttech does the same, or would do it. I can’t say. So I buy from who I know I can trust, and I trust Calvin at Illumn or Richard at MtnElectronics, more than whoever or whatever runs the behemoth fasttech or banggood or gearbest or whatever site we’re talking about.
Like I said above, this is all just how I choose to buy and I don’t blame anyone for doing otherwise. Just sharing my thoughts on the subject.
Besides, Illumn or MtnElectronics wouldnt dare sell a 6000mAh Ultrafire to start with. You and I may know better than to order it, but even selling it at all is taking advantage of the ignorant masses and that’s not good either.
I worry, but let’s face it, a lot of these are either laptop pulls, or are similar. The device I’m using right now (and your cell phone) are probably powered by li ion batteries.
So its a risk we have anyway.
On one hand, the batteries in these devices are probably good. On the other, I have no way to check, and don’t know if it was programmed or whatever properly.
Get a DMM and check the batteries regularly, and don’t charge too fast. Probably your best bet.
I researched for days before making my order. Everybody said Sanyo or Panasonic Cell were the best ones to stick with. I ended up getting these particular protected Cell because they were the right length to fit in my convoy. I can’t remember what brand charger I ordered but it was highly recommended and had almost 5 star reviews. People said it was an awesome charger and better than a lot of these others they had been using. And the reviews were recent. I made sure I got protected Cell and the milliamp hour and all the other specs on the battery was correct and what I was looking for. The reason I ordered from Fast Tech is so many places were sold out of the light and emitter combination that I was looking for. And when I found a place had the light I couldn’t find the proper batteries. It just seems like it was a tough combination to find from one retailer. Don’t ask too many questions lol because I can’t remember everything from that shopping experience. All I remember was it was a damn nightmare and I almost gave up and went back to my double a mini mag for convenience. Several weeks later and I still have a headache from shopping for that damn light and battery combination trying to make sure I got the right batteries that wouldn’t blow my house up and everything else. This light better be damn good or it will all be in vain and I will never waste that much time on a flashlight again lol.
For the record, the only “bad” cell I’ve ever gotten was from a US seller, but it was handled professionally by them. My point is, one cell can slip through anybody’s QC, and that one cell might be enough. If someone is buying loose Li-ion cells, even from a reputable seller, they owe it to themselves to research how to be safe with them. They are the one responsible for their safety.
Also, Singletrack dissed the Solarstorm light pretty heavily as a “Cheap Chinese Knock-off.” While I disagree (I have had some very nice Solarstorm lights), it is probably a good thing because it helps keep the uninformed and naive away and safe, even if it means they pay 3x as much for the same performance from a name-brand light. Most serious mtn bikers know their bikes really well, but many are total noobs when it comes to lights and batteries.
I use cheap batteries, but I check them. Doesn’t make them 100% safe, but I probably won’t buy a cheap multi-pack, and just trust the charger. I use and check them singly, multi-battery lights are a bigger risk, from what I’ve read (really need protected cells)
Also from what I’ve read, charging can be where you have problems, especially if you have over discharged (too dead) cells. Some people stick around while charging (recommended.)
If Im reading it right, he had 4 cheap cells in a pack, which I probably wouldn’t do. It doesn’t sound like he checked his charger for V and A, either. Might not have mattered, but I don’t trust cheap chargers. I’d test the good ones, too.
Get a DMM, it’s fun to check this stuff anyway, and test stuff. You need one for li ion imo. I got 3 cheap ones, they all agreed within 1/100 V
They told a relative not to use her phone while charging. So it’s still a risk. I think you are worrying too much, i have a DMM and use it, but you have to decide for yourself if the risk is worth it.
It sucks that this happened to the fella, glad there was no loss of life….
The problem to me is that after identifying a potential issue (corrosion on connectors), he then failed to identify the potential impact of a flaming battery pack in the house and continued to use the item, figuring infrequent usage would protect him…
Definitely shouldn’t skimp on the batteries. Cheap budget lights are fine, but if using li-ion cells, buy quality from a reputable source. I also dislike using cells in series due to the risk of reverse charging.
It also sounds like the guy in that article really should have had an ABC rated fire extinguisher on-hand. Might have saved some of his stuff.
THIS.
They’re a pain to clean up, but wayyy easier and cheaper than cleaning up after a large fire.
I think a shovel might have worked. Might go locate one, other stuff can cause fires too. Good to know where it is, you never know. Left stove on before, also a BAD idea.
Not necessarily a bad cell or an uneven charge — just crap solder and flux on crap material so it corroded fast.
EDIT: here’s the problem battery pack picture:
Every step in production there’s a manager or worker who can figure how to save a penny by
skipping a step or substituting something cheap for what was specified.
Guess how long those Chinese solar panels are going to last, eh?
The problem could be that the battery pack is not waterproof, if water gets in lithium-ion batteries they become very dangerous.
If i see corrosion like that, i would never use the battery pack again in wet conditions.
Even the best lithium-ion cells will eventually explode if they are not handled correct (keping the cells dry is essential).
Most battery packs for bike lights look waterproof, but these nylon packs ar not waterproof enough for use in the rain.
I also have such battery pack for my bike light, but it is Always in a waterproof bike bag (with an extension cable to the Fenix BT20).
The Original battery pack for the BT20 is waterproof, but with only two 18650 cells i have to charge it every day.
That is why i use a larger battery pack with 8 cells (i have to charge that every week).
The MTBR page, I think, warns not to put that kind of pack inside your jacket either, because sweat will also corrode it.
But from my experience soldering, if there’s flux left on the metal after soldering, the metal will corrode just in humid air.