WTB Maratac AAA Copper

jon_slider · March 9, 2017, 3:17am

great photos, so glad you are enjoying the Lego options and the Maratac body style

fwiw, your driver photo has an unusually large button. My Worm has that, and it has an unusually efficient and regulated circuit, particularly on High.

you may want to do a runtime test of your Maratac. With an Eneloop, if it is not dim or dead by 40 minutes, you may have gotten lucky with the driver. The Cu Worm is neither dim nor dead at 40 minutes, it will still be in regulation at constant brightness at that time, and will be dim or dead after 60 minutes.

I suspect the Maratac, if its like mine, will not run regulated on High, the brightness is constantly dropping. I have a large thread about the subject of efficient and regulated drivers in the Lumintop Tool, Worm, and Maratac, here. quite complex, not sure if its subject matter interests you

Congrats on your CuMaratac… its my favorite AAA host

Coppet · March 9, 2017, 4:50pm

Hi again
I think I get lucky with the Maratac driver, I gave it a try with a full loaded Eneloop and the Maratac runs for 42 min. with constant brightness. After this its getting darker and runs till 55 min.
Now I want to know more about my other Lumintop Tools (2x copper and 2x Ti), later I do the same test with all 4……just have to wait till the Eneloops are fuly charged :+1:

Teststart:

after 30 min.

after 42 min.

after 50 min.

Btw. what are the difference between all the Maratac AAA Rev. 1 to 4, can somebody answer that?

jon_slider · March 9, 2017, 7:43pm

Wow! I’m jealous of your Maratac driver. Congrats!
Earlier model of Rev3 had PWM. Yours is also rev3, I call it rec 3.5, unofficially

I’m waiting to hear if rev 4 Aaa has PWM. Rev 4 AA does have PWM.

Rev 2 iirc was a 2 mode with PWM

Claimed brightness has gone up with each revision

Added your driver pic to this thread that discusses drivers (hope that is OK, or let me know)

suggestion regarding runtime tests with no light meter
use your Maratac (or one of your tools if testing lights with Nichia) as a control, do not run it down, just turn the control light off between photos. Just use the control light as a refence for comparison when you photograph beamshots of the runtime of the other light(s). that way you can tell when the test light is less bright than the control (better than single beam photos)

Coppet · March 10, 2017, 11:39am

Thank you, so I think I have a good Maratac Rev. 3.5

And I did a quick test with my 4 Lumintop Tools, the result:

- Ti with Nichia constant brightness: 40 min. and then getting darker, shut down after 50 min.

- Ti with Cree constant brightness: 40 min. and then getting darker, shut down after 54 min.

- Cu with Cree constant brightness: 35 min. and then getting darker, shut down after 48 min.

Cu with Nichia constant brightness: 30 min. and then getting darker, starts flashing always faster (!) after 35 min.

Surprising results for me!

Great idea, I will do a test like this at the weekend!!

jon_slider · March 11, 2017, 1:37am

good info!
suprised the Ti w Nichia outperforms the Cu w Nichia
curious if all batteries are eneloop (not some eneloop pro in the mix and some not Pro version)

I will also be curious to see the driver pictures
so far nobody has reported a TiTool with an efficient driver, and the driver pics do not always show a difference. Your Maratac with the large button is definitely the exception…

what I want to know next is whether your lights are running regulated, that is, at 30 minutes is the brightness the same as when the test started (within 5 lumens). The unregulated driver will have dropped more than 40 lumens in 30 minutes, and the unregulated driver on a light meter, shows the brightness is constantly declining, from the beginning to the end, with No Regulation
by Regulation I mean a flat discharge curve…

for example here is my Regulated Worm and my UN regulated CuTool (vertical scale is lumens, horizontal scale is minutes)

my worm driver (on right) has the large button, like your Maratac

driver with small button, on left is unregulated, I have it in a Maratac and a CuTool
however, I also have a small button driver that IS regulated

button summary, all large buttons tested are regulated. All Cu worms are regulated, worms come with large buttons and with small buttons, there is one report of a regulated Maratac w large button and one report of a Regulated CuTool, with the large button.
some small buttons are regulated, but most small buttons are not regulated
TiTool has small button driver, as do CuTool, Brass Tool.

difference between the drivers is both longer runtime and flat regulation, vs shorter runtime and no regulation
the button itself is not the controlling variable, there was a change in the inductor, that is not visible without disassembly. The old spec was 60 minutes on high (of which about 40 min was regulated), the new spec is 30 minutes on high (and it does not have regulated output on high).

Coppet · March 11, 2017, 11:47am

I don`t own any Pro Eneloops, all my Eneloops are the white ones. But….my Eneloops are old and so I was out this morning and bought me a set of 4 new white Eneloops, maybe some of the old ones have a lower capacity. I charge them and do a new test at the weekend as you described it.
And I have read your threads about the efficiency and was surprised too about the fact that there was no Ti Tool with an efficient driver.

Maratac AAA 3.5

Lumintop Tool Cu with Cree

Lumintop Tool Cu with Nichia

Lumintop Tool Ti with Nichia

Lumintop Tool Ti with Cree

jon_slider · March 11, 2017, 6:37pm

thanks for all the driver pics, you did a great job getting them in focus
the TiTool w Nichia has that little rectangle around the 10 oclock position. CRX suggested it was part of a feedback circuit for the electronic switch… Im not sure if that right, but, you can see the same spot on some of your other drivers, for example your CuTool w Nichia, but it is sealed off (as the driver is being used with a non electronic switch).

my conjecture is, the TiTool came with a new driver, and the same driver was used with the subsequent CuTools. I suspect All of those are inefficient, but, anything is possible, since what really changed was an inductor on the back of the board, and I have no hint as to when that actually happened.

It also appears that in some cases, the driver for the worm, went into other lights, your Maratac being a prime example. And so far, All worms got the efficient inductor…

time wise, the Worm came before the TiTool, that is to say, imo the inductor change coincided approximately with the release of the TiTool.

I also have 2 ReyLight Cu Tools, they came out just before the TiTool, but again after the Worm. One of the ReyLights has the efficient inductor, even though it does not have the large button of my worm and your maratac…

I look forward to your runtime tests, and am glad you are adding a control light so you can get a better idea when lumens drop by 50% or more…

enjoy your lights, and your weekend!

jon_slider · March 13, 2017, 8:50pm

thanks for all those data points
I would like to go into more detail on how you measured “constant brightness”, by eye, or with a light meter?

I would like to be certain of the information on the two Ti Tools. Either you got lucky and are the first person with an Electronic Switch Tool to get the efficient driver, or your test procedure lacks a light meter so you cannot tell the TiTools are running dimmer over time, not flat regulated constant brightness…

So my request is that you retest them, using a light meter, to confirm if they are running in flat regulation (constant brightness), on high, for at least the first 30 minutes. Lacking a light meter, we are reduced to what you see, and our eyes do not notice a 10 or 20 lumen change. I think we notice change of 50 lumens or more. (all my numbers require verification)

food for thought on the human eye ability to detect lumen changes:
” How your eyes work

A good place to start is how your eyes respond to light. Your eyes have a non-linear (logarithmic) response to light, much like a camera. In order to notice a significant increase in brightness, you must double the amount of light. In photography, this doubling is referred to as an f-stop. For our purposes, the f-stop is a convenient unit of measure and we will use it when referencing relative brightness. To put this in perspective, if you suddenly change the brightness by 20%, you will notice just a slight change in brightness. In fact, if the change takes place over a couple of seconds, you may not even notice. ”

notice above, that a camera will also not be able to detect a 10-20 lumen change in brightness. iow, photos of your beam, do not have the accuracy required to report loss of brightness. Particularly when shooting a single beam, with an auto white balance camera, such as on a phone. We need the ability to detect change of 5 lumens or less…

Im very grateful for all your info, it is some of the most complete, detailed, and well documented with photos, of any of the data Ive looked at… Probably about 20 lights total… Your contribution is very significant (to me :-))

thank you!

Coppet · March 14, 2017, 11:24am

Hi again!

I did a little test today with both Ti Tools and my Maratac as a control light.
All 3 Lights has new and charged Eneloops, no pros.

On the left is the Tool Ti with Nichia, on the right is the Tool Ti with Cree and above is the Maratac Cu.

First Pic at the start:

With control light:

After 15 min.

After 30 min.

After 40 min.

After 60 min. The Cree shut down and the Nichia is flashing.

Coppet · March 14, 2017, 12:12pm

And here the next test with Cu Tool Nichia on the left and the Cu Tool Cree on the right. Control light is my Maratac again and all Eneloops are new and charged, no pros.

First pic at the start:

With control light:

After 15 min.

After 30 min.

After 40 min.

After 45 min. The Cree shut down and the Nichia is shut down after 48 min.

No problem! I had fun with the testing and I have become a big fan of Lumintop/Maratac AAA lights And I think I need to buy me a lightmeter :+1:

jon_slider · March 14, 2017, 3:30pm

Very nice tests :-), but not sure what they mean…

Yes, a light meter, even borrowing one for 10 minutes, will immediately reveal if the lighs are running flat regulation. The unregulated driver drops continuously from the start, has no steady brightness at any time. Some people have found light meter apps for their phone…

I remain extremely curious what is really going on with your TiTools in particular…

enjoy your day!

phoenix1901 · March 15, 2017, 6:14am

Hi. It’s already in stocks. got 2 pcs and waiting to arrive me.

jon_slider · March 15, 2017, 6:54am

thanks!
Copper AAA Nichia 219 Flashlight by Maratac ™ REV 4
After thousands of Requests it’s new user interface is: “Low / Medium / High”.
$34.95

that is an amazing price, mode sequence, and LED
now I need someone to report if it has PWM

Coppet · March 16, 2017, 2:53pm

Thank you!!

jon_slider · March 17, 2017, 7:18am

this is not correct (I reserve the righ to disagree with myself based on new information)
the CuAAA Maratac is MLH, the text has been changed to:
.
After thousands of Requests it’s new user interface is : ” Medium / Low / High.

and the video confirms MLH

I suspect, the CuMaratac AAA w nichia is identical to the Tool w Nichia

hope someone can confirm the lumen levels of the new CuMaratac AAA

Coppet · March 17, 2017, 12:44pm

I really like to buy one but: “There are no shipping methods available for your destination!”
Such a crap, if you live in germany you can`t buy a Maratac at Countycomm……….
And Maratac is Countycomm only, right?

jon_slider · March 17, 2017, 5:45pm

I have also seen them here
Maratac for sale - Knives, EDC, and Outdoor Gear - Huge Selection | Blade HQ (but not the new one yet, you could get on their notification email list)
and at Massdrop (after CountyComm sales slow down)

another option is to get a mailbox service in USA… I googled “mail forwarding service” and found this.
https://www.usglobalmail.com/mail-services-for/international-shoppers-get-us-address/

I have not tried them, know nothing about their cost structure… but the idea is, you get a USA address, and the business ships your packages on to wherever you are on request (which I think means no customs fees since you bought the item in USA originally… not sure)

Coppet · March 18, 2017, 3:10pm

Thank you,that is great!! I will check them out!

Btw, I`ve found this site: http://www.polizeibedarf.ch/pi/County-Comm-AAA-Taschenlampe-aus-Kupfer.html?von_suchresultat=true Its a swiss company.
The translation:
The company County Comm, based in Los Angeles, is a trading company specializing in surplus material from the US government. All offered material is brand new unused and nowhere else available than at County Comm or even at Polizeibedarf.ch.
The Maratac AAA flashlight is the world’s first flashlight that has been made to 100% copper. Maratac is a US government company and manufactures equipment items exclusively for the US government.
:partying_face:
The price is around 78 US Dollar plus shipping!

jon_slider · March 18, 2017, 5:30pm

utter baloney!
CountyComm is a USA company in California that buys chinese products and sells them to anyone who will pay. They claim one of their customers is the US govt. CountyComm does not manufacture anything themselves, they do have things made to their specs, in China, in order to try to control exclusive product designs. Sometimes CountyComm will take an existing chinese product and ask for it to be manufactured with some unique exclusive features, but they are based on existing Chinese products, for example the Peanut Light, which is very similar to the DQG line of 10180 lights.

Currently CountyComm has Lumintop make the Maratac for them, on exclusive contract, using the same electronics and tooling as the Lumintop Tool (the maratac body is an exclusive, the head is the same as the tool). Same thing DarkSucks did (another US company in California), when they had Lumintop make the Prometheus Beta QR, which is almost identical to the Copper Worm. (The Beta body is an exclusive, the electronics and head are the same as the Worm). The copper Beta, like the Copper Maratac have been marketed in the past at over $70 each, and people buy them.

Previous versions of the Maratac, and Tool, had more aggressive knurling, which is now just simple scored lines, cheaper to manufacture, and so they are now being sold for half of the initial prices. This is similar to what happens with other Chinese electronics and products, someone comes out with an “exclusive design”, they sell it for the highest price they can, when the high priced buyers run out, the items go on sale through numerous resellers, for example Banggood, Gearbest, and the US company Massdrop.

Apple computer is also a US company, that sells chinese products made on exclusive contract.

CountyComm is not much different than a used car salesman, that makes you think they have something special you want, and gets you to pay as much as possible, but ultimately will drop the prices until the items sell.

I still like the CuMaratac, a lot, I also like my iPhone. They are not made in USA by any stretch of the imagination.

Coppet · March 18, 2017, 8:28pm

I had a good laugh after reading this text on their homepage.