I wonder what the answer would be in the 21B form factor, best throw at 5000k. Will do some research later and probably end up spending more money xD
About ‘throwers’ S2 or S2+
I have both S2 and S2+ with variety of different leds, some with hicri sst20 (the smallest hicri led) and some with shaved lh351d (LES similar to xpl-hi ). And what can I say - both really are not true throwers, because of the reflectors shape and light distribution.
The reflector of S2+ is very shallow with big spill and looks ugly with small leds like sst20. Reflector is made for flood and much light goes into spill not hotspot.
The reflector of S2 opposite is very deep, too deep for its diameter and this also don’t allow the right light distribution for throw. Less spill diameter than S2+ but this spill is more intensive. And this give nothing to the intensity of hotspot. But this deep reflector looks good with small leds like sst20.
So both S2 and S2+ doesn’t look like real throwers even with the small led - to much light goes to spill, not hotspot.
There is one good variant for hicri tube thrower form the box, but it is 21700 - Manta ray S21 on aliexpress
Comes with sst20 and the reflector shape is similar to true thrower like C8 but smaller. It really makes maximum concentrated hotspot with dull spill. Basically it’s the same 21700 variant of S3 host listed above witch is also sold like “Ekoras R7”, but ekoras with sst40 is quite floody and cant throw much. It can be ordered with SMO reflector and with sst20 it produces the beam like little copy of C8 - pure thrower.
Output lens diameter of s2/s2+ is only 17,5mm and this variant of 21700 like manta ray or ekoras is 21mm but due to right shape of reflector and bigger surface it produces a real concentrated beam.
By the way - convoy s21a and s21b is also 21700 and lens diameter is 21mm, but the reflector is very shallow, even more shallow than s2+ and cannot really throw. Just a floody reflector.
I wouldn’t worry about CRI for a thrower. The throwiest S2+ is probably the CSLNM1.TG (6000k).
About 5000k is pretty much neutral white. But a 6000k light can lean neutral depending upon the output (perception can change from turbo to low). There are many, many choices. Just look at the emitter choice options when browsing your candidate lights that meet all of your other criteria.
I’d say it depends on the intended use. For a dedicated thrower that will only be used to view objects hundreds of yards away then yes, CRI shouldn’t matter much. But when walking trails at night with a C8 or D80v2, a high-CRI emitter makes it much more enjoyable. An S2/S2+ is much floodier than both of those lights and I think a high-CRI emitter would work well, as long as it meets all other usage criteria.
If absolute maximum range is the most important thing with no other considerations, then CSLNM1.TG is the best choice. But with those criteria, I’d recommend an entirely different host.
@Rayoui exactly this - I love my PD32v2 for range but everything close-up looks discoloured white which I’m not very keen on. That light uses an Osram emitter which I’m aware are the ideal choice for maximum throw, however the PD35v2 is also plenty good enough throw for me and that has the XPL HI emitter in 6500k.
According to this: what's the measured throw for Convoy S2+ XP-L Hi vs XM-L2? - #3 by Pete7874
The S2+ with XPL HI 3A (same emitter I ordered) achieves 200 metres of throw, so I would assume that in the S2 host with a deeper reflector I should get slightly more than this. So it should roughly approximate the throw of the PD35 v2 but with a more neutral tint, which is exactly what I wanted. It’s true that I do prefer the slightly longer throw of the PD32v2 but I’m very happy to sacrifice a bit of throw for the neutral tint.
You might also consider a sliced 5000K LH351D. The throw would be similar to XP-L HI but the LH351D is available in 90+ CRI and slicing the dome makes the tint quite rosy.
Are these available or would I have to make it myself?
You’d have to slice the dome and solder the LED power leads onto the MCPCB.
You can get an LH351D 5000K 90+ CRI from Simon already reflowed onto an MCPCB.
Parts are inexpensive for S2/S2+ so it’s a great light to try your hand at modding!
I reckon I could probably manage that, those terminals look like they could be soldered with a regular iron. What does slice the dome mean? Literally slice it with a razor? If so how deep?
Yup, just need a soldering iron. It’s a little tricky because the MCPCB will wick the heat away from the pads and into the head of the light. Just use lots of flux, a generously tinned tip and moderately high heat (370-400c should do it). Don’t forget to put a little thermal paste under the MCPCB.
Slicing the dome is exactly as you described; you literally slice the dome off with a razor. Here’s a great video showing the process using a washer as a guide. Typically you will want about 1mm above the MCPCB surface. Once you do it once or twice it’s not so bad. Just grab an extra emitter or two in case you mess one up.
I have a modified Zebralight SC64w HI with 90+ CRI. Basically a better bin compared to stock from Bob_McBob.
Another thrower with good CRI is KR1 with SST20 4000k 95 CRI or 219b sw45k 90 CRI.
Youre right, with no 70% or 80% mode the light gets too hot and drains batteries too fast with higher amps, that usually the reason why some wont go for the most powerful driver. pus there is no distinguishable difference to our eyes between 70%-ish and 100%, just heat and battery drain.
Well I got the “S2” with the XPL-HI, but it’s actually an S2+. As expected though it’s good enough for what I want, pretty decent alternative to the PD35 v2, essentially the same thing but with a nicer tint.
My C8+ with smooth reflector and 3000k XPL-HI is quite throwy. Not sure if its an 80+ or 90+ LED but its better than some. Although I do agree with the above sentiments that high CRI isn’t terribly useful in a thrower. I actually ended up getting another C8+ just to put a 3500k LH351D and OP reflector. Wonderful, multipurpose light that still throws respectably.
I’ll say it again, my FW1A with SST20 and Ledil spot optic is producing a wide 21kcd beam and I love it. It’s as throwy an edc needs to be imo yet has a wide enough spot for typical tasks. I carry my FWAA as a secondary edc as a flooder. Great combo.
Glad you found something you like. I might have suggested to consider his M1...basically the S2 body with a slightly wider head and cooling fins but it's still quite compact and pocketable. That extra reflector width and depth generally will give more throw and then if you want to make it particularly throwy you can pick the best emitter for that. The S21 gets you to a similar place and you can use 21700 or 18650 cells.
Picking temp or CRI really depends on what you use the light for. Personally for myself I cannot see high CRI being of any benefit in any of the situations I use throwers in (generally nature/animals outdoors). Where more vibrant colors exist at night, warmer or neutral temps seem to bring that out just fine and what minimal loss there is with "low" CRI just doesn't seem to matter to me. Now temperature, however, can make a huge difference, depending. This depends on the distance, too. I don't like cold 6000K+ but in urban settings or when nature is particularly Green, it works fine and sometimes gives a little advantage in contrast depending on surroundings. In general I really like around 5000K (and would love 4500K if I could find it) for throwers because that's white enough to still give good throw and contrast while letting the colors of animal fur stand out a bit from plants and grasses that may be lighter green or tan, etc. I don't own a thrower with lower temps of 4000K or less but got to play with a C8 that had I think a 3500K-ish something in it.....kind of nice to have the warmer light but frankly at a distance it seemed far less useful and deer were more difficult to pick out quickly unless they were moving or twitching (but there's always the eye-shine). Owls and possums also didn't quite stand out so nicely with the warm temp and back in the forest where there were more tree trunks and lots of leaves down, the overall contrast seemed low and a bit washed out....but there's a situation where higher CRI might be useful, depending.
Also, keep in mind the temp/tint shift depending on current to the emitter. If you aren't running on high/turbo with your thrower then you may end up with something less pleasing or useful depending on what you pick. I wish more flat emitters would come out with neutral temps but the market doesn't seem to be there. One of these days I'll get around to slicing a 5000K LH351D and see what that looks like...one of my favorite emitters overall. SSTs are pretty great, too, but the color shift at lower currents is a bit annoying and I think that's accentuated in a tight thrower beam at near-ish distances. I think generally past 50-75 meters a lot of that doesn't make much difference but it sure does up closer if you need your thrower to serve double duty in the absence of a spare light.
Couldn’t agree more. If we could get a ~4700K 80ish CRI thrower with at least a positive R9 value (is +15 asking too much?), I think that’s ideal. I’d easily give up 10-15% for a neutral spectrum that gives maximal contrast across all colors. 5000K XP-P might be our best shot at this in the near term. 80CRI 4A binned XPL HI is another. I’m going to pick up an 80cri SFS80 from KD to see how that fares. Fingers crossed.
I'm quietly hoping that the SFT models get some more attention and development. So much love and manufacturers' $$$ for 6500K in the world, still...such a sad state of affairs. :) Glad to see Cree getting back in motion, too.
Might be too late for negev, but I just noticed the Acebeam W30 claims 90+ CRI, and has a 4000K option.
A bit pricey, but it’s definitely a thrower.