A solution to manufacturing marks in brass pills

BLF Special Edition Products
21

I agree with J-Dub74. Jaxman has excellent quality overall. I would directly compare them to Convoy. The original complaint about the pill really is a very small problem. Honestly, the average user probably wouldn’t realize any kind of difference. And it would be very difficult to measure the difference between a perfectly flat pill, and a pill with a raised center. I believe a member here is going to attempt to measure the difference, but there are so many variables that it would be difficult to notice differences without precise measuring equipment. If two flashlights were fully assembled, and the average user tried both at the same time, I doubt they would be able to pick the one with the imperfect pill.

I think the main point to realize is this: BLF has some very talented and precise members who are able to detect even the smallest of imperfections. I would compare this to an average wine drinker, and a sommelier (侍酒师 / Shì jiǔ shī ). As much as I would love a 100% perfect flashlight, I enjoy the cheaper price tags, and the small amount of work that goes into making the flashlight a precise tool.

22

ISTM there are several issues of concern here, and I continue to communicate with Jaxman.

Visible machining marks, perhaps suggestive of worn tooling, should not, in themselves, affect the flatness of the pill.

But I agree, are undesirable.

But before crying “foul” about the flatness, it is also necessary to be sure that the MCPCB is also perfectly flat.

It is not unknown for these to be a little dished, hence the perfectionists who “lap” them using e.g. fine grit or abrasive paper, on e.g. a piece of float glass.

This is easily checked, e.g. put them down on a flat piece of glass, e.g. float glass, or a mirror, and see if they rock (convex bottom surface).

To test for concave bottom surface, you could use “engineer’s blue” or simply felt pen ink, to determine where physical contact is present, or absent.

I would also suggest, that some basic checks of pill flatness be performed, before declaring it bad.

As simple as offering up e.g. the end of a steel ruler to the surface.

Or better, break a razor blade to size, and offer the edge up.

If the pill turns out not to be sufficiently flat, simple circular grinding or lapping will not improve it. In fact will tend to make it more convex.

TBH, the approach suggested, careful application of a graver, wrapped in abrasive paper, with some sensitivity, would probably be the best approach.

Having served an apprenticeship that included scraping surface tables flat, to within a few wavelengths of light, I would have no problem in truing up any such minor imperfection.

And then, there is the question as to how important this is, in reality. Mirror finished, absolutely flat to the level that Newton’s rings are formed ?

I see this sort of work as the difference between a mass-produced mainstream item, and a hand-finished offering, that takes things to the next level.

I am encouraged that Jaxman take this much care with their standard products, and have operators who can take the initiative to correct any such minor imperfections.

I hope that we can try to reach the same standards.

23

Well said and I agree. Truly exceptional value-per-dollar. Well done.

24

Of interest to note, this particular light demands an exacting placement of the emitter. The aspheric will lose focus if the emitter is shifted even a few hundredths of a mm. Too far away from the lens and focus can be adjusted by the thread action of the head, too close to the lens and it simply won’t focus.

I got the overall height of the mounted copper pill several hundredth’s of a mm high, had to use a thin spacer ring to take the aspheric higher and accommodate this error. :wink:

So, if there is a dome to the emitter shelf in the pill, it might truly effect performance of this light. Ordinarily it wouldn’t be much of an issue, but with this aspheric, it may very well be. Fitment here is pretty critical.

25

Dale, did you observe this with your Luminus emitter, in its substantial (thick) package ?

Because, if so, it may have simply been that the overall stack height was on the limit of the focussing range of the threads.

If instead, you saw this with e.g. a standard LED, directly soldered to e.g. a 1.6mm thick MCPCB, that would be of more concern.

There should be no particular reason why the lens cannot focus properly, as long as the distance from LED to lens is in the correct range. If the LED is too high, the lens will need to be spaced higher also, which I think is do-able, to an extent.

Otherwise perhaps the pill could be sunk a little lower into the head. Did this problem happen with the original brass pill, or your copper replacement ?

26

The SBT-70 is a low emitter for it’s diameter. While it takes an MT-G2 mcpcb to mount, the stack profile is quite short… as seen once the AR coated window and it’s frame are removed. Very thin, difficult to pick up actually when it comes to mounting it.

At any rate, the aspheric had it in focus on the stock brass pill. I changed the top end of my copper fitment such that it has a shoulder sitting on top of the shelf in the head, whereas the brass pill is straight at that point and doesn’t utilize all the available space under the cover plate. In so doing, I missed the mark by just a wee bit and the die surface is that little bit higher, resulting in an out-of-focus image profile. A thin shim solved this issue and even allowed bypassing the focal point slightly such that a blue ring appears around the hot spot at closer range. This might actually help me achieve further throw, obtaining a more distance crossover of the mirrored image.

27

:+1: … Yes, I totally agree with this! I appreciate it also.

I have 4 - Z1’s, two production models and two hosts… the quality these lights is evident to me. The pills in the host’s are just fine too. Perfectly acceptable in all ways as well as dimensions.

Nice going Jaxman, keep up the good work…. :+1:

28

Sorry for stupid question, but why dont you make top surface of the pill totally flat , without any cavity / edges for LED star? May be it will be a bit harder to place star exactly at the center, but more easy to make it perfectly flat / polished.

29

Not a stupid question at all :student:

30

Easy answer there is the need to center the mcpcb.

Edit: One thing that’s easy to overlook… we tend to think in terms of a machinist running the lathe or CNC making this brass pill but what we don’t think about is that the factory may have 20 or even 50 CNC machines running in bays, each with it’s own inherent problems and it’s own operator. Some days an individual just doesn’t do the same work as others… many machines making thousands of the same part, there’s just going to be some variation.

Think about it, your job is to make this pill, all day every day. Can YOU make the exact same part all day every day and have every one of them exactly the same? The Monday parts and the Friday parts show the most difference, an age old axiom of a car maker….

31

I totally agree with both of the above.

I have two of the Jaxman Z1 host’s, so I can speak to that.

Both of the pills in my host’s are about as close to perfect as I could hope for.

I tried three (3) different 20 mm Noctigon’s on each pill and could detect no wobble at all. Possibly if I attached a dial indicator there could be a minute wobble… but as far as I am concerned that would be a total waste of time and energy.

My two pills are good to go as delivered. In fact they are flatter than 2 of the 3 Noctigons I tried. ( pictures available upon request )
And please do not read into this I am saying anything at all bad about the Noctigon’s, I am not. They are just fine as is.

Sure, maybe a “bad part” slips by every now and then. But this is not unique to Jaxman. I just paid $1000.00 for a brand spanking new GEN III Cool Fuel Module for my Mercruiser 496 MAG engine in my parasail boat. Guess what, it came with a non working low pressure fuel pump. No, I am not a happy camper. Cause it is costing me over twice that much today as I wait for the new one to be overnighted to me. ( none in stock locally or even close… :person_facepalming: … :cry: )

So… it can happen, no matter what it is, where it is made or who makes it; mistakes do happen. The real problem is if the mistakes become the rule instead of the rare exception.

I personally find the Jaxman Z1 host to be a well made, well thought out light that shouts quality.

32

33

Now this is one of those questions that seems so logical
indeed a flat surface with the two holes for screwing in and our.
Why the flip not?
The hole now used in alost all plls s not a perfect match anyway, so centering is always needed and not done by the pill…

34

Andrew2007……… priceless. :+1: … :wink:

35

All that is needed is instead of a ridge that centers the mcpcb is 3 holes where 3 pegs are placed

36

Pretty sure the design that is in place is to help the manufacturer’s employees assemble the light as quickly and reliably as possible. They don’t typically go out of their way to design a light for a modder to work on easier down the line… I know everyone here thinks we are the be all end all to the flashlight realm, but we are a mere speck on the windshield of life… as far as I know they make these by the tens of thousands and sell them primarily in China. We account for a few hundred lights. The rejects, if you will. :wink:

37

You know, I think what we all need to realize ( myself included ) is that Jaxman is not making hosts for modders. He is making flashlights to sell. He is doing it in a manner that works for him and does indeed produce a top quality product in my opinion.

He has not asked any one of us for suggestions on how he can improve his production process. He has simply shared how they do the process to produce the lights they produce.

He was going to sell us a few hosts in a group buy so we could mod them as we wished.
But that would mean that it would have been up to us to come up with our own LED adapters if we were going to use an LED that did not have a 5x5 mm footprint.

That would mean if the pill had a few rough edges it would be up to us to smooth them out (by whatever means we chose), just as they do in China when they assemble the Jaxman lights.

He simply told us how they did it. Whether anyone of us agrees with what he does makes not one bit of difference. He is the one building Jaxman flashlights…… not us.

His lights are well thought out and the parts designed to fit & work together for the lights he produces. And as far as I am concerned the lights are top notch.

If this “group buy” had not crashed and burned, it would have been up to us as “modders” to be “modders” and work out the minute details. Not look to Jaxman to provide them all.

Sadly, I can’t fault him for pulling the plug. :frowning:

38

Well said teacher.

I now have the Z1, X1 and X6 Hunter… going to be looking at the rest of the line-up and adding some family members for sure. :slight_smile:

39

Just fyi.. None of these manu's are perfect - some bad things slip in. I recall buying 2 Nitecore's at the same time, same specs, and one performed 20% lower than the other, same cells, same everything. Do any you guys recall ThruNite leaving the kapton tape on underneath that beauty of a giant copper MCPCB in the TN31? I came across a couple of them when modding - you'd never know, maybe a few % loss of output, maybe the LED dies after continuous use, who knows - I'm sure most went unnoticed.

Devil is in the details, and in the attempt to achieve 100% quality. I'm glad to see Jaxman is concerned about it, but we dunno if it's the 1/1000, 1/100 or 2/10,etc. The centered bump up under the MCPCB could be sold to 1,000's of happy customers, and not have a clue that heat xfer is somewhat, maybe marginally limited. I've found many lights with this bump up from the machining process, and have the MCPCB rocking around on top of it.

Us modders can see it, where typical customers will never, but it's a good thing we can bring it to there attention. I can tell you, Jaxman is 10000% better handling this input than Warsun ever was, least in my experience.

40

Same here, agree and I am looking at the rest of their line to add!