All rechargeable batteries can be dangerous if not treated correctly regardless of chemicals used.
I've had more nimh and nicad problems than I have had with Li-pos - Li-ions (I fly RC helis with big 12s 5000mah packs)
I've had nimhs spill their guts and eat away aluminium, I've seen a nicad explode like a hand grenade and take a chunk out of a concrete floor and I have seen lipos burst into flames. All were down to misuse.
Here's an old 10s5p (50 small cells) that went up. It was in the heli when it started to smoke, I got it down quick and within seconds of me ripping it out this happened.
This was due to one batch of cells failing and was before we had advanced balancing chargers that enable you to keep and eye on cells and tell when they need retiring from use.
Nah man just get some, just try not to use unprotected cells in series too often (I still do sometimes, not as big a deal as is made out IMO), and learn how to check voltage on your batteries, and have a decent charger. All there is too it really.
I’m with the OP… sort of. I only use a quality Li ion battery and a quality charger. I never charge with the charger nearby, although I haven’t made a box for the charger yet.
Oh, and I won’t wear a Li ion headlamp! Blowing up on a book shelf is one thing. Blowing up on the back of my head is another!
You’re being a wuss, imo.
I’ve been using these batts, as well as nimh/nicd for years, only ever had one batt go bang, and that was a button cell one that I was putting into my car alarm fob, door bell rang I didn’t notice that I’d put it down on some water, heard a fizz then bang, never did find all the bits.
I don’t measure my cells voltage, to my mid that is the job of the charger, I use different brands, always have done, but do ensure they have all just been charged prior to use so equal capacity.
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I’m one of the few who had a li-ion cell blow up. It’s detailed to death in another thread here.
I still use li-ion cells. But I am more cautious. I very rarely use Chinese cells of any kind; treat multi-cell lights with EXTREME respect (and rarely use them); and observe common-sense safety precautions, also detailed to death all over BLF.
You’ll be fine.
I think li-ion cells and their maintenance really adds something to the lighting hobby, a secret knowledge almost that we have and others don’t. And I for one really enjoy being anal about cell maintenance …… and finding free or inexpensive cells wherever I can. Really adds a lot of fun to the hobby for me. Excuse me while I go and dig through the battery recycling bin at Home Depot.
And as someone else pointed out, want a really dangerous every-day appliance? Try driving a car. It’s filled with enough potential dynamite to pretty much level a good-sized house. But we don’t even think twice about SPEEDING AROUND in a metal box filled with liquid explosives that could blow up if you hit something. Amazing what you get used to and call “normal.”
Every time I pull my cells off the charger I check the Voltage. They are always perfect, 4.22v. So you are right you don not need to have a DMM.
But one day I will check my cells as usual and one will be bad, or going bad. Now I will discard that cell. You however, will be unaware of the condition of your cells when they do go bad, until one goes pop.
No one is saying you need to keep checking your cells on the side of a mountain, just when they come off the charger.
I remember in a thread about anodizing, when I explained what the process was, OL brought up the fact that it included Lye, Acid, Electricity - all scary stuff. I was surprised, because that stuff doesn’t scare me one bit. Then I thought about the stuff OL does, why he uses hot flame torches, drills, saws, knives - all very scary stuff too, that didn’t scare him. Then I realized that as long as you know what you are doing - AND you are careful, you will be OK. For most of us, the most dangerous thing we do is drive a car, and we do THAT every day. So in everything we do safety first!
BTW, even so, I just had a close call 30 minutes ago with some Li-ion cells. read my post in the forum topic concerning harvesting some cells from a B&D battery pack bought at Home Depot.
I’ve never had a problem with lithiums. I used to mess around with rc cars with my Dad and Brother for a few years. And a couple months ago we were going through the garage and found the 7 year old lipos, all of them inflated and puffed up.
Now my lions, I think a good rule of thumb is if during charging they don’t get warm and there aren’t any big scratches in the casing, they are pretty darn safe.
Hey everyone, thanks for your continued feedback, definitely given me plenty to think about.
Frankly I would never use unprotected cells or cheapo cells under any circumstances. I would only even consider using the best or near best protected cells I could find with a top quality charger, and a multimeter. Also like I said I don’t see myself using a multi-cell li-ion light either because from what I understand that is when you have the most potential for problems.
I totally understand the car analogy some of you have used and trust me I was quite hesitant to get behind the wheel when I was a teenager, I didn’t even get my learners permit until I was 17, could have done it at 15, and in retrospect should have but whatever.
Anyways I’m not going to run out and buy a li-ion light and batteries and charger and multi right now because I don’t have the money (broke college kid) but I definitely will at some point…probably
Thanks again very much. I’m sure I’m a weirdo to some of you for even having this dilemma but its just the kind neurotic basket case I am
I’m sure you are right. The example I heard was if you use multiple cells and one is charged and the other is not the current will flow through the uncharged one causing it to rapidly charge or maybe it causes the full one to rapidly discharge, I don’t remember exactly but it made sense when it was being explained. But I suppose if you check your voltages with a multi and make sure they are both the same technically this problem should not happen.
if i remember right its called thermal runaway. when a full cell tries to compensate for a dead cell, it creates heat. when that heat gets to be too much is when you end up with a vent with flame… cant remember all the technical details… but thats the just of it. same if you have a cell short out while in a device. its the heat that ultimately causes the VWF…
If I remember right reading some university professor’s study on batteries, li-ion battery will have high chance of run away for condition below:
1.FULL charged and temperature above 65c.
2.60% charged and temperature above 80c.
Basically when there are more energy in the battery it will be more dangerous if temperature get higher. So make sure your li-ion batteries are cool is the key, either while charging or discharging.
This is my point. I have 6 Sanyo cells all the same age. One has gone bad, way below what it should be. Now in a multi cell light you would not know it was going bad, you couldn’t, you may see some run time problems, but which cell? If you did not notice a problem with the run times, which is very possible if you use the torch for 10/15 mins at a time. Then you will be in trouble.
The fact that you have not had any problems so far does not mean you are being safe or doing it right.
So to the OP You MUST get a DMM! They are cheap. And get good cells, the charger doesn’t have to be expensive, mine are cheap, but because I have a DMM, I can check that the charger is doing exactly what it should. JJ Findlayson Cannot. So if his very expensive charger decides to charge above 4.25v, he will be unaware of the fact until it is too late.
Different people have different ideas, the “safe” way does not always work perfectly, bit like people worrying that the plane is going to crash, despite the FACT that statistically they were more likely to get injured/killed driving to the airport!!
If you have an opinion express it is my motto, esp when it has been asked for, I get slated for calling the veyron a badged up skoda, it’s a hell of a car, but to my mind no where near as impressive as the Maccy F1, just my opinion of course, others have theirs, don’t ever be afraid to express yours, otherwise you become another sheep, and there are way too many of them in the world imo.
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The only advise I’d give is buy the best batteries and charger you can afford. Stay away from cheap 18650s- any battery with a “Fire” in it is suss. Go with known brands like Panasonic, Eagletac etc. Then you’ll have little to worry about.
NO, I should get the donations first ha ha.
I just can’t get my head around the amount of technology and time difference between the two, then how little difference in performance, personally I’d have a Mosler over the F1, maybe just cause me NZ mate used to work on them in Norfolk, before they moved to Cambridge(both UK), he now makes looms etc for Caterham F1, about 5 miles down the road from me.
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I was surprised, because that stuff doesn’t scare me one bit. Then I thought about the stuff OL does, why he uses hot flame torches, drills, saws, knives - all very scary stuff too, that didn’t scare him. Then I realized that as long as you know what you are doing - AND you are careful, you will be OK. For most of us, the most dangerous thing we do is drive a car, and we do THAT every day. So in everything we do safety first!
