Perhaps a bit of overkill is what you need?
128 x 15" woofer wall.
Watch a bit till you see a true hair raising bass experience.
All he Best,
Jeff
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Haha NO THANKS I want don’t want to need hearing aids before I’m even eligible for a senior discount 
Very impressive though. What the heck is that used for?
In other news, I finally got to watching that 35 min video about center channels. Very interesting stuff. I see now that the Cambridge Audio SX-70 would just be a lousy choice overall. I had kicked around the idea of an SVS center so it was cool to see that one do well. But I checked the measurements and it wouldn’t fit the gap between my stand and TV anyway.
It would be vastly cheaper just to get another pair of SX-60 speakers refurbished and use one of those. If I wanted to match my Walnut theme in the front, I could go for a KEF center. Looks like their coaxial design really works fantastically for centers. Again though, huge increase in price and still would have to be mounted above my screen due to a lack of space below.
BTW, kicking around the idea of the 15" THX rated Monoprice sub, open box. Cheaper than the HSU but even better lower end performance. What is slowing me down is that I wonder about why it was returned in the first place. And also, it’s probably be enough to be an eyesore, even for me.
Still evaluating the Denon AVR-S760H.
- Switching sources is slower than I would like
- belatedly found reports that this unit has issues with Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) (flaw in models made during a period of time as identified by serial number)
- 9 band equalizer. Lowest band is too high (60hz? I’ll check the exact number later). Can’t fine tune a sub with that kind of control
- A helpful app for tweaking Audessey costs $20 on the app stores
Purely a convenience feature, wouldn’t give me more adjustable frequency bands
I don’t think picking up an Onkyo is a solution based on this Costco review of the TX-NR6050
This device has excellent features, but despite multiple attempts to improve the sound clarity with AccuEQ and after spending a lot of time with all the different settings to try to coax out greater crispness, my speakers just sounded dull and lifeless. I traded it in for Costco’s Denon receiver and after the first Audessey tuning in the Denon, my system absolutely came to life with crisp, clear sound. I’m not sure why this is, but I ended up keeping the Denon instead because the sound was incomparably improved. I was disappointed because the Onkyo was much better on inputs, HDMI processing, on-screen UI quality, and streaming options. For streaming audio, I greatly prefer Onkyo’s setup. Denon requires that you use this “Hemos” app on your phone in which you’re supposed to sign into all your services, rather than signing in to different services directly on the receiver, as is done with the Onkyo. I found the iOS app for the Onkyo to be limited in its options–Denon’s app seemed to give me far greater control over my receiver’s settings.
This review seems to confirm what I suspected. Onkyo units have nicer connectivity and responsiveness but the room correction software that Onkyo switched to (AccuEQ) is inferior to even the lowest version of Audyssey. (it’s funny in the X vs Y threads for room correction, half of them fail to acknowledge that each room correction software has 3+ versions for different product tiers)
So this has has left me wishing for a higher end Denon with Audessey Multiq XT32 which would allow for room correction at lower frequencies and more accurate room correction in general. Too bad Onkyo doesn’ have a higher end model with XT32 because that would be the best of both worlds.
The subs I was leaning towards (Monolith 15", HSU 15") are “dumber” but the lack of sub EQ on the Denon AVR might force me to go with SVS to fine tune bass output.
The perfect solution would be to find a used Denon amp with the right format supports and XT32 room correction for under $600. I can’t bring myself to step up to the $1200+ tier for an AVR which is the most likely component to need replacing in the future.
(esp when I already need to shell out for Center, Surrounds, and a Sub together with the associated mounting hardware and cabling)
You know, I am sure, that you can’t use the equalizer at all if you have the Audyssey room correction turned on. So it is kind of moot. But really you need a good parametric EQ to do anything precise anyway. In any case I have gotten my system pretty good with the controls on the HSU subs and Audyssey (though I do have XT32) , and good sub placement.
Also, keep in mind that Audyssey does more than frequency level adjustment. It work in the time domain as well. Something you simply cannot do with a simple graphic EQ. Personally, it wouldn’t bother me at all if Denon did not even include the graphic EQ. Even if it had 18 bands and worked at 10 Hz… it still would be next to useless for what you want to do.
Though I have never owned one, all I have read about SVS subs has been very good. But if you include pricing and raw capabilities… IMHO, their parametric EQ would not be the feature that would be so important as to make me decide in their favor. But that is just me…
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I think the number of bands available in the graphic equalizer is a rough indication of the number of bands that your version of Audyssey is allowed to utilize when making corrections. That’s the main reason I brought it up. I’d bet that the main difference between the Audyssey versions is actually this arbitrary limitation.
Based on a graph I found comparing the correction curves generated by MultEQ and MultEQ XT32 versions of Audyssey, there is a drastic difference in the resolution of the changes made between the two. Since I have a version of Audyssey that’s even lower than MultEQ I’m sure that the resolution of the room correction is even lower for my system.
Also, (at least on my receiver) you can copy the equalizer curve created by Audyssey into your graphic equalizer so that you can make manual tweaks if you think something is off. Maybe you can then put that curve back over to Audyssey for when it is turned on? Not sure on that second part. But anyway, not important, I just want the increased correction resolution, not to actually use the graphic eq to manually do room correction.
Though I have never owned one, all I have read about SVS subs has been very good. But if you include pricing and raw capabilities… IMHO, their parametric EQ would not be the feature that would be so important as to make me decide in their favor. But that is just me…
Well sure, but you have Audyssey MultEQ XT32 so if your sub’s are getting massively boosted at a particular frequency your room correction can take care of it. Based on my reading I don’t think the receiver I have now would do anything to alleviate that.
Just for reference. My X6400H with XT32 has the following EQ settings:
63 Hz / 125 Hz / 250 Hz / 500 Hz / 1 kHz / 2 kHz / 4 kHz / 8 kHz / 16 kHz…
9 Bands. So I doubt the number of bands available in the EQ is related to the any sort of number of “bands” the Audyssey processor uses.
This is what the Audyssey web site says:
Now I am not sure what 128X means, though I am pretty sure it is the number of bits assigned to processing that set of speakers. It seems unrelated to center frequencies available in the manual EQ.
Unfortunately, the only way to really know what works for you is to try it out. Hearing is believing… I have learned to ignore much of what the “golden ears” folks at discussion sites say. Unless I have other experience with them that allows me to trust them. Even then, the bottom line on what works is what I hear in my room.
I think, especially with your budget constraints, what you need is to find something that you can afford (Sub) and has good specs, then try it out. I would bet that whatever you get, you will find improvements from what you have been using. You can always go from there.
Of course, trying to make an informed decision going in is valuable. But you can definitely get into the dreaded and counterproductive “paralysis by analysis.”
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Well, looks like the graphical band equalizer means nothing whatsoever. 
I’ll stop talking about it lol
The post I found comparing room correction softwares did have measurements for room-corrected output though, and the graphs show that the middle version MultEQ XT does a really crude job adjusting the lower frequencies.
This table is extremely helpful, I’m surprised I never found it referenced anywhere in all the discussions I’ve read. Based on the table, my fears about the subwoofer filter being worse than MultEQ XT are unfounded. It’s exactly the same. So not great, but at least not worse.
I do have questions about that 2x resolution for the satellites. I wonder if it counts Front L and Front R as satellites?
I would bet that whatever you get, you will find improvements from what you have been using. You can always go from there.
No doubt, I’m just trying to avoid buyer’s remorse. There’s nothing like spending a grand, or two grand, and realizing that with a little more patience and time you could have spent a couple of hundred more and been much happier.
Thanks for taking the time to reply and for tracking down that table. It ought to be front and center on the product descriptions of every AVR with Audyssey. Gonna head to the Audyssey site and read everything and hopefully learn what that 2x resolution means for the end user.
EDIT: Now if I look in Google image search I can find that table but I can’t find a corresponding article on the official website.
@Mandrake50
Found this discussion:
The Audyssey rep links an article which no longer exists. Probably that is the source of the table. He answers some questions in this thread though 
Audyssey rep:
Yes, “satellites” refers to all the speakers in a system other than the subwoofer
16x means “16 times more”. We don’t publish the exact resolution of the filters. MultEQ has dozens of control points (many more than 16). MultEQ XT has hundreds. MultEQ XT32 has more than ten thousand.
So maybe I don’t need XT32, but I would probably be better off with MultEQ XT 
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Yeah, I was trying to chase it down and found the same thing. but that table does show up in many discussions. I assume it was copied when the info was still up… ? A shame really that they have gotten even more closed mouth about things than they once were. But at least the “X” thing is defined… just compared to the original base MultiEQ version.
It looks like you would have to go to the X1700H for XT.
or
https://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X1700H-Channel-Receiver-Built/dp/B09HFN8T64
~$600. So you wouldn’t need to spend $1200 to get that. Though you probably would to get XT32.
Refurb from Denon $550
It is tough to find the latest and greatest tech on lower level units… That is how they coerce you into spending more… 
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Yep, the strategy companies use is to isolate key features at price points just a few hundred dollars apart. Pretty soon the buyer convinces themselves into the highest tier simply by rationalizing their way step by step. The trick is to know yourself and know which features will actually matter to you in the long run.
I jumped from looking at an iPad Air to the Pro 11" and I’ve never looked back. The differences for me were important.
Now in this case I’m thinking I could live with the XT version of Audyssey. But XT32 would be very nice. So while I agree with your assessment of the AVR-X1700H I’m first going to see if I can track down a used Denon AVR-X3700H at a similar price from an ebay seller with a good history. If I can’t do with for ~$600 I’ll probably just go for the AVR-X1700H
It is such a shame. I paid a flat $500 delivered for the X3400H (XT32) for my bedroom system. I would love to put a 3800 in there (thinking of doing rear heights), But for ~$1700 I will have to pass. I think if I found one for under $600, I would go for it in a second. I think finding one even close to that (in fully working order) will be impossible… I have been looking… or even an X3700H…
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$500? I like the sound of that pricing…clearly I waited too long to start this AVR adventure haha. GPU pricing is bogus too, I’m still running a GTX1070 but the card I want to replace it with would literally cost 3X as much. Waiting and hoping for a GPU market collapse or a crazy Black Friday sale.
I hear you on the used pricing but who knows? Good deals go fast on Ebay though so if we watch Ebay closely enough we might snag something.
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A subwoofer is not put where you like it as you say a friend has them next to the mains.
You have to find the best location and try it out.
The new equipment before only had it the high end adjust the speakers with a mic.
Never, ever use it with the subwoofer as it treats it like another speaker and will turn it up to +10 too much.
Then you have the adjustment if you hear the subwoofer is set wrong or too bad.
If you come into my house and I play a movie you will not know where my bass box is (so I call it) in this case a REL I tried many brands and it was the one I liked and it fit my room, look for and buy the one that fits your room a good one for me will not be for you or yes.
It will seem to you that the bass is coming out of the mains or the bass drivers, you will never know what is coming out of the bass box, even if you get close to it.
To see if it’s on I have to put my hand under it to feel the air because I don’t hear it, but you feel the pressure of the thumps.
Once you get the location you won’t move it, it’s the hardest thing to locate it correctly.
I repeat if you hear it or know where it is, it’s either bad or it’s set wrong or it doesn’t go very low (Hz) or the crossover cutoff is set wrong.
It is complicated to explain it, look for guides and do the best you can, the beginning will be the complicated part or you get lucky and find it the first time.
And last but not least remember if you listen to it it’s wrong.
I hope it helps you a little.
Edit:
Just to say that I use and rode high end, the cheaper ones don’t get everything I said but in general the rules are the same, look for the one that goes lower (Hz) you will feel the chest thumps.
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I was about to order a subwoofer after much deliberation, then I noticed that this open-box only comes with a 90-day warranty. That’s pretty bad for something that costs $1000. On the other hand, where else does one find that kind of performance for $1000 and free shipping? Idk, maybe i’m being paranoid
It is kind of a crap shoot. I would hope that they would check them out before reselling them…
What does the 90 day warranty do for you? Does it cover shipping on returns?
Chances are you will be fine. The question becomes, are you willing to take a chance for the difference in cost??
I have gotten lots of open box stuff and been happy.
Refurbished and open box products go through a rigorous testing process and guaranteed to work like new. Not satisfied? We also offer a 30-day money back guarantee on refurbished and open box products.
In theory, anything that goes wrong ought to go wrong in with 30 days or 90 days. And I am pretty sure they pay shipping during those periods. (I understand they don’t have spare parts and ship the entire 135lb sub back and forth lol)
But on the other hand, it’s kinda lousy of them to offer nothing for the customer after 90 days. That’s 3 months of safety net instead of the 5-7 years you get with most new subs.
You’re right, it is essentially a value-based gamble.
The PB-3000 costs $600 more and outputs less bass. Has nice equalization tho. 5 yrs unconditional warranty
The HSU 15" costs ~$300 more after shipping and also outputs a bit less bass at lower frequencies. Also includes some more features. 7 yr limited warranty
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Mid 1990s I had an audio store and dealt with some Velodyne, M&K and other smaller subs too.
In my experience, subwoofer placement is very room-dependent. (though the bottom-firing Velodyne ULD-15 at that time seemed to be the least-affected compared to the Forward or Front-firing M&Ks).
The objective is just to have the right amount of bass, I mean, a kick drum should sound like a kick drum. Too much of it will change its tonal character, thereby its total sonic accuracy.
The best way, if possible, is to have the sub of your choice actually placed in your listening area and move it around, experiment which area is most pleasing to your ears in WHERE you sit.
All those drawings with dimensions of room shapes cannot accurately predict the bass quality in your listening SWEET SPOT, as sound waves are highly interactive also to other objects and materials inside the room.
If you are lucky, the sub of your choice will just sound “right” in your sweet spot, first time out.
Just my .02, btw. Cheers!
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Found this video about sub placement.
This channel has lots of audio info.
All the Best,
Jeff
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I’ll definitely watch it when I get home. I bought a pair of refurb Cambridge Audio SX-60s for my rear surrounds. If they are of reasonable quality I’ll buy another pair and use one for a center.
The sub I still haven’t chosen because I’m still deciding if I want to buy the Monoprice Open Box with only 90 days of warranty 